*Player of the decade*

Please select your choice for player of the decade

  • Archer

    Votes: 33 11.1%
  • Immonen

    Votes: 53 17.9%
  • Reyes

    Votes: 82 27.7%
  • Deuel

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Van Boening

    Votes: 21 7.1%
  • Pagulayan

    Votes: 4 1.4%
  • Souquet

    Votes: 96 32.4%
  • Wu

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Strickland

    Votes: 2 0.7%
  • My choice is not listed

    Votes: 3 1.0%

  • Total voters
    296
add up all the cashes for 15K or more over the last decade that Ralf and Mika had and then get back to me. Ralf > Mika.



add up all the cashes for 40K or more over the last decade that Ralf and Mika had and then get back to me. Ralf < Mika.

you can call me also.


lol! Ralf seems to have two, and neither of them is from a win. 2nd in 9-B WC 40000$, and 5th in IPT Vegas 50000$.

Mika has SEVEN, five of them wins, and four of them bigger than Ralf's biggest.


Call me.



(edit: I remembered afterwards, that ralf got 60 000$ from the short handed 8-Ball field. Sorry. But then again, that's 8-Ball, and Efren wasn't there ;))
 
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I would count the big IPT events as "majors" (World 8-ball, North American 8-ball, KOTH), and of that Efren won 2 of those. He also won the WPC World 8-Ball in 2004 I believe (Ralf won one too over Alcano, I think).

And I would also consider the "Master of the Table" award at DCC a major itself as well, and Efren won about 3-4 of those. Mika and Ralf (I correct me if I'm wrong) haven't been close to winning one of those.

All that said, I'd still vote for Ralf.


You are correct. There are lots and lots of points, and trust me, I have counted them. Efren's wins, as Ralf's wins.

Like I said, IPT was bit controversial stuff, how players got involved, the system, the equipment etc.
WPA 9-Ball and US.Open are bigger, what it comes to prestigiousness (tradition, how honorable the tournaments are).

So Efren's and Ralf's Majors are counted. I didn't list other Majors what Mika has either, as those mentioned are the biggest.
 
Ralf 60
Mika 20


Yeah, nobody denied Ralf's consistency. Mika is just bigger winner than him, that's why he deserves the title, IMHO.

Efren's wins are bit above Ralf also. Ralf lost those Major finals (two to Mika btw :wink:). Mika lost the US.Open once, then later won it back-to-back. How big is that? Who else has done that? Varner in late eighties, when the field was like one third of what's it now. Not to even start with the level of the field.

And who else has ever won the US.Open and the WPA WC in the same year?

No-one.


8-Ball WC is lacking top pros, so is 14.1. That's why I don't give them the same respect.


Btw, as I'm writing this, I remeber, that Ralf got 60 000$ from the 8-Ball WC, so I forgot that from my previous post. Sorry.
 
The only major one pocket tournament that I know of is the DCC and it's a race to 3 which is anybodies game. You can't compare the one pocket competition to the 10ball/9ball, it's not even close.

I really disagree with this statement. In the history of the DCC, the one pocket is the only one with consistent champions as the winner. The best will come out on top in this format whereas the nine ball or banks has yielded surprises. It also goes to show that even in this shorter format, Efren won four straight.
 
Hmmm, not sure exactly what your gripe is about what I said. I said there is no question that Mika is the best player the last 2-3 years. So you probably think Mika is the best player the last 10 years. That's your opinion (and the point of this thread), but as I documented in my first post there is about a million different reasons ($) why Efren alone can be argued over Mika as player of the decade.

That said, I would still vote for Souquet, with Efren second and Mika third.


That was just to be objective and to point out the ignorance in the statement. If you go back 2-3 years, Mika wasn't anywhere near as he's now. (Shane, Ronnie and Dennis was there, with the ever consistent Ralf of course.)

If you go to 2000-2003, he was, just the younger and less experienced version of it.
 
I would guess that 80 % or more of the events played around the world this decade have been played in 9-ball, perhaps even more.

Next?

Btw, I would bet on Ralf if they played 8-ball. Ralf is World 8-ball Champion, did well on the IPT, has ran 27 consecutive racks on a tight Diamond IPT table.

He is almost as good in 14-1 as anyone, and definitely better than any Filipino


That was loose Brunswick GC III btw. ;)

And Efren in his prime won everybody in 8-Ball, with large margin, and you should now that.
 
2008 on Ralf's list has a large number of Euro tour stops that ARE included in those money totals.

I gotta go write a final now, will chat about it later.


Yeah, and Ralf didn't win a single Euro Tour in about five years, before that.

And yeah, Mikas 60 000$ from the WTBC is not listed there ;)
 
Ralf's consistency can't be ignored. 5 time World Pool Masters Champion, US Open winner, World 8 ball winner the list goes on........
 
Ralf's consistency can't be ignored. 5 time World Pool Masters Champion, US Open winner, World 8 ball winner the list goes on........


Yeah, but the topic wasn't that "who is the most consistent player of the decade".


Mika and Efren outshine Ralf, what is comes to winning big time. Ralf is worker, Mika is winner, Efren is Magician.

All time Efren wins of course, this Decade, with narrow margin, Mika wins. Too many Majors, those really big ones. Sorry.
 
You're a wise man, Terry :wink:

Koop - thinks the same.


Yes, Terry is a wise man, but let me ask a question:


In Golf, player A wins 4 Majors and 5 other big ones + has high finishes few and also few small wins.

Player B wins 1 Major and 11 other big ones + has lot's of high finishes and lots of small ones.


Who is better?


IMHO, the one who wins the Majors.


Ask Tiger or Jack, if you don't believe me.
 
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Yes, Terry is a wise man, but let me ask a question:
In Golf, player A wins 4 Majors and 5 other big ones + has high finishes few and also few small wins.
Player B wins 1 Major and 11 other big ones + has lot's of high finishes and lots of small ones.
Who is better?
IMHO, the one who wins the Majors.
Ask Tiger or Jack, if you don't believe me.

You're probably right but this is a subjective question which requires an opinion, not a fact, for an answer.
Being human, I tend to bring more into it than merely accomplishments, that's just me. I happen to think Ralf is a complete class-act as well as a superior pool player. Mika, let's just say that he a couple of rungs below Ralf on the class meter, IMHO.
 
What does "Player of the Decade" mean?

So I repost my answer too;)

Nathan, my thoughts is that nobody doubt about Mika's accomplishments in the last decade. The point is that Ralf has been the most competitive and consistant player in that WHOLE decade. He certainly is also the most dedicated player in the game, travelling most of the year everywhere on the planet to play in tournament.

If someone deserved this reward, Ralf is the one who comes to the top of the list by far before the second... who could be Mika...;)

Folks:

I think billbOK has it, in a nutshell. Many folks here seem to have different definitions of what "Player of the Decade" means. Some seem to think it's total earnings (in which, clearly, Efren's the winner here having two of the biggest IPT events under his belt). Some seem to think it's the impact the player is having right now (in which case, clearly, Mika is the winner here with his gangbusters year-and-a-half). Many others, like myself, believe it's the consistency -- in terms of making sure he/she is involved in as many high-profile tournaments as he/she can, as well as placing high or snapping the event off completely -- over the ENTIRE course of the period for which he/she is being considered (in our particular situation, the DECADE).

Nathan D., Marvel, and others are clearly boosting Mika for his OUTSTANDING 18 months of performance. In my eyes, Mika is most deserving of the following titles/monikers:

+ Player of the YEAR (without question)
+ Most Improved Player of the Decade (think about this one)

Prior to Mika's gangbusters year-and-a-half, he did NOT have a stellar period prior. (I'm giving Mika the benefit of the doubt with the year-and-a-half, btw, because Mika's consistent march through, and snapping off, the finals of big tournaments didn't start until this time LAST YEAR, when he won the U.S. Open the first time. That seemed to be the "hump" or "hill" for Mika; once he walked over the peak of that hill, it's when his tournament-snapping "rampage" started.)

Sure, Mika would have a few spikes here and there (placing high, or snapping off a nice tourney here and there) throughout the 8 years prior. But Mika was not consistent. There are those of us who notice Mika has a rampant focus problem -- making mistakes at the WORST possible time, mistakes that cost him dearly, costing him titles that he otherwise should've won. (Some may remember the "Mistakes Out Of Nowhere (M.O.O.N.)" nickname for Mika in the threads here during this past Mosconi Cup.) It seemed that once Mika finally crossed over the crest of that hill -- winning the 2008 U.S. Open -- it broke a barrier for Mika, that he'd been bumping his head onto for most of his career. It cleared the air for him. I think if one asks Mika himself, he/she would find Mika would agree with that. When asked about what it was that lit a fire under him this past year-and-a-half, Mika says that he "worked on some back/grip hand things." But we all know that it's much more than that. Something happened with Mika mentally, once he broke through that glass ceiling. He no longer has those monkeys on his back.

What does this have to do with this Player of the Decade poll? While Mika's accomplishments/improvements certainly merit him Player of the Year (that isn't even a horse race -- noone even comes close), it doesn't warrant him being voted Player of the Decade. Mika quite simply has not been consistent enough through the decade to say "he was a driving force through the decade."

Ralf, on the other hand, has. Before Mika's rampage over this past year-and-a-half, the most feared player was Ralf. Noone was more consistently knocking other world-beaters out of, placing high (or snapping off altogether) high-profile tournaments than Ralf. That is, and has been, throughout the DECADE. Sure, Mika's accomplishments this past year-and-a-half far outshine anything any player has done in a long, long time. But a stellar year-and-a-half does not a DECADE make!

I think unfortunately, some folks are vulnerable to the "what have you done for me lately?" syndrome. By that I mean that Mika has been in the limelight and shining brightly lately, and Ralf is being outshone right now. Some folks, like moths to a flame, are attracted to the bright light. They are cheering for Mika, and have forgotten about the "soldiers" like Ralf that have consistently logged the miles and not only entered every possible tourney all over the world, but consistently placed high or snapped-off the event as well. Ralf's still there, in case Mika's glow dims.

And, on the topic of the person him/herself, Ralf is also ALWAYS a professional. Mika, well, let's just say he doesn't always show his best side. Some folks are not going to like what I'm about to say, but Mika sometimes has an attitude and professionalism problem.

I think if Mika continues his winning ways, he's a shoo-in for next decade's Player of the Decade. But not this one.

Humbly,
-Sean

P.S.: my personal favorite player is, no question, Efren Reyes. But I like to think I don't play the "favorites game" like some folks are playing here, and put my favoritism for Efren aside, and vote for the player that shows the true meaning and essence of Player of the Decade. That, for me, is no question, Ralf Souquet.
 
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The answer should be easy just add up all the winnings

Efren!

He may have some inconsistency but what really matters is when he gets to the Finals he wins!
 
I hope this isn't (another) stupid question, but we all have heard Johnny being the Player of the Decade for the 90's.

Is there some entity that actually gives out this award?
 
Sure, Mika would have a few spikes here and there (placing high, or snapping off a nice tourney here and there) throughout the 8 years prior.

But Mika was not consistent.

Are you sure about that? Go to the AZB "top 30 players ranking" for each year. Out of the possible 10 for this decade, Mika out earned Ralf for 8 of them. Sure you can argue about Euro tour and all that, but the fact that Mika is on that list ABOVE Ralf on 4 times more entries implies to me that Mika is indeed consistent.

Sure, Mika's accomplishments this past year-and-a-half far outshine anything any player has done in a long, long time. But a stellar year-and-a-half does not a DECADE make!

Again, I disagree. I feel that it's about MAJOR wins. Mika won more titles than Ralf, plain and simple. 2 US Opens, 3 World Titles, and countless other major wins (including two runner up finishes at world & us open appearance). To me thats far more impressive than Ralf, who consistently placed, and yet hardly won any Titles.

I think unfortunately, some folks are vulnerable to the "what have you done for me lately?" syndrome.

Perhaps, but not all of us. Some of us clearly have some valid arguments as to why we choose Mika. Even Donny Mills posted that he thought Mika deserved the POTD title. Is Donny Mills just saying that to jump on the Mika train? Very doubtful.

And, on the topic of the person him/herself, Ralf is also ALWAYS a professional. Mika, well, let's just say he doesn't always show his best side. Some folks are not going to like what I'm about to say, but Mika sometimes has an attitude and professionalism problem.

In rebuttal to this argument, I could say that Mika is more entertaining than Ralf, which could be a contributing factor to my vote for Mika. Very few people care to watch the guy who consistently grinds his way through in conservative fashion. I want to see some actions, some excitement, and some character. Mika brings that to the table, while Ralf does not.

I do see your perspective on this, and I fully understand why people are voting for Ralf. I simply disagree. Some would say that it's because Mika's a friend of mine, but if it were that simple, I wouldn't have accumulated all the above arguments. :)

Cheers on your well conceived standpoint.
 
Folks:

I think billbOK has it, in a nutshell. Many folks here seem to have different definitions of what "Player of the Decade" means. Some seem to think it's total earnings (in which, clearly, Efren's the winner here having two of the biggest IPT events under his belt). Some seem to think it's the impact the player is having right now (in which case, clearly, Mika is the winner here with his gangbusters year-and-a-half). Many others, like myself, believe it's the consistency -- in terms of making sure he/she is involved in as many high-profile tournaments as he/she can, as well as placing high or snapping the event off completely -- over the ENTIRE course of the period for which he/she is being considered (in our particular situation, the DECADE).

Nathan D., Marvel, and others are clearly boosting Mika for his OUTSTANDING 18 months of performance. In my eyes, Mika is most deserving of the following titles/monikers:

+ Player of the YEAR (without question)
+ Most Improved Player of the Decade (think about this one)

Prior to Mika's gangbusters year-and-a-half, he did NOT have a stellar period prior. (I'm giving Mika the benefit of the doubt with the year-and-a-half, btw, because Mika's consistent march through, and snapping off, the finals of big tournaments didn't start until this time LAST YEAR, when he won the U.S. Open the first time. That seemed to be the "hump" or "hill" for Mika; once he walked over the peak of that hill, it's when his tournament-snapping "rampage" started.)

Sure, Mika would have a few spikes here and there (placing high, or snapping off a nice tourney here and there) throughout the 8 years prior. But Mika was not consistent. There are those of us who notice Mika has a rampant focus problem -- making mistakes at the WORST possible time, mistakes that cost him dearly, costing him titles that he otherwise should've won. (Some may remember the "Mistakes Out Of Nowhere (M.O.O.N.)" nickname for Mika in the threads here during this past Mosconi Cup.) It seemed that once Mika finally crossed over the crest of that hill -- winning the 2008 U.S. Open -- it broke a barrier for Mika, that he'd been bumping his head onto for most of his career. It cleared the air for him. I think if one asks Mika himself, he/she would find Mika would agree with that. When asked about what it was that lit a fire under him this past year-and-a-half, Mika says that he "worked on some back/grip hand things." But we all know that it's much more than that. Something happened with Mika mentally, once he broke through that glass ceiling. He no longer has those monkeys on his back.

What does this have to do with this Player of the Decade poll? While Mika's accomplishments/improvements certainly merit him Player of the Year (that isn't even a horse race -- noone even comes close), it doesn't warrant him being voted Player of the Decade. Mika quite simply has not been consistent enough through the decade to say "he was a driving force through the decade."

Ralf, on the other hand, has. Before Mika's rampage over this past year-and-a-half, the most feared player was Ralf. Noone was more consistently knocking other world-beaters out of, placing high (or snapping off altogether) high-profile tournaments than Ralf. That is, and has been, throughout the DECADE. Sure, Mika's accomplishments this past year-and-a-half far outshine anything any player has done in a long, long time. But a stellar year-and-a-half does not a DECADE make!

I think unfortunately, some folks are vulnerable to the "what have you done for me lately?" syndrome. By that I mean that Mika has been in the limelight and shining brightly lately, and Ralf is being outshone right now. Some folks, like moths to a flame, are attracted to the bright light. They are cheering for Mika, and have forgotten about the "soldiers" like Ralf that have consistently logged the miles and not only entered every possible tourney all over the world, but consistently placed high or snapped-off the event as well. Ralf's still there, in case Mika's glow dims.

And, on the topic of the person him/herself, Ralf is also ALWAYS a professional. Mika, well, let's just say he doesn't always show his best side. Some folks are not going to like what I'm about to say, but Mika sometimes has an attitude and professionalism problem.

I think if Mika continues his winning ways, he's a shoo-in for next decade's Player of the Decade. But not this one.

Humbly,
-Sean

P.S.: my personal favorite player is, no question, Efren Reyes. But I like to think I don't play the "favorites game" like some folks are playing here, and put my favoritism for Efren aside, and vote for the player that shows the true meaning and essence of Player of the Decade. That, for me, is no question, Ralf Souquet.


Sean, I'm not blinded by Mika's last year-and-a-half (which is actually more like a year-and-a-month, from Oct 08 to Nov 09).

Mika was one of the best in the world in the early Decade also. And during those lesser years, he was still better than Ralf occasionally. Mika outshines Ralf in Major wins and Money. Someone listed that out of 10 years, Mika has won more money than Ralf seven times. That's 7/10. Ain't that consistency?


It is true that I have been favouring "The BIG Titles", which has been WPA 9-Ball WC (later 10-B) and the 9-B US.Open. There Mika has won 4 times, Ralf only once.

When you start looking for other big ones, then of course the focus goes into IPT, which had the money and the glitter, but not the tradition so not the titles. Efren is there way above others, Mika again better than Ralf.

Also Efren won the tournament in Japan at 2001, which had the biggest since payday 165000$.

All those three have won other "Major" titles, but for example in 8-Ball WC, if I've got it right, Mika has never even participated.


What it comes to Major wins (winner 40K or more), it's 1.Mika, 2.Efren, 3.Ralf.

What it comes to Money, it's 1.Efren, 2.Mika, 3.Ralf.


How could you then vote for Ralf?


The more I'm thinking of it, and the more I'm trying to be objective about the fact that not everyone is thinking that "The Titles which has the tradition should count the most alone..", I'm starting to like Efren.

Yes, Ralf is the most consistent, he has the most professional attitude, he's the most gentleman of those, but he simply is not winning the big ones as Mika or Efren. He is winning them also, but not like the two others.

Count the silvers. Who has won most silver of those three? Yes, then Ralf is #1.


Earlier I listed in points: Mika 32, Efren 28, Ralf 24.

Now when I think of all the Master of the Tables from DCC, everything else, and I'm not so fanatic about WPA Golds and US.Open Golds, I'm starting think Efren might snap it.
But those IPT staff and the DCC also, are unofficial. The "World All Around Champion", which Efren definitely is, is unofficial.
So, officially it's still Mika. Unofficially; Efren. Ralf is the most gentleman, but still wont win it ;)
 
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I'd rather play Mika or watch Mika play as compared to Ralf when no shot clock is involved. With a shot clock, I'll take Ralf, as there's nothing to fade off the table.

Ralf is the consummate pro, but he can be paint dryingly slow and robotic. But that should not be a deciding factor here.

Who gives out POTD award? Is it done at the Golden Globes? ;)


BTW, great thread with some great contributions.
 
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