Players and instuctors

Jodacus

Jodacus

Shoot...don't talk
Silver Member
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level.

Do you think its something inherent in pool or is it something
inherent in the average mental capacity (talent) of a pool players?

Maybe it just takes a lot more effort to top that plateau.

What do you think and why?
 
Jodacus said:
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level.

Do you think its something inherent in pool or is it something
inherent in the average mental capacity (talent) of a pool players?

Maybe it just takes a lot more effort to top that plateau.

What do you think and why?
Click to expand...

My guess...they have a full time job and only play one night a week.

They have never spent 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for a year straight in a pool room.

They never played against good players for money.

They never read the books or watched videos.

They never hung out and traveled with a real good player.

They don't ask questions on how to get better.

They don't care to get any better.

Some people have it and some people don't.


Most people are into pool just for all the fun.:eek:

The biggest reason...they don't use a Meucci.
 
Obviousy the answer is going be different for different people. But in general the answer to your 'inherent' questions are yes to both, along with other individual reasons for failure to improve. Why can some people play chess fairly well & others are almost totally inept.

Many people simply do not recognize that pool is so much of a mental game & simply focus on the physical task of pocketing a ball & hope that they get a shot at another ball they can pocket. When hope stops being generous their run generally stops & often so does their chance of winning.

For those that understand position, they are very often not precise enough in that area & often stop their run by getting just on the wrong side of a shot rather than making sure they are at least on the correct side. I myself still occasionaly make this error.

Many people can not focus on more than one thing 'at a time' (Science on the way). A better way to say it would probably be that they have trouble maintaining a shifting focus til one appropriate decision is made & then shift focus to the other task at hand.

All that being said, if one does undersatnd the mental side one still needs the physical tools to execute their mental plan.

Just my nickel's worth,
 
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Jodacus said:
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level.

Do you think its something inherent in pool or is it something
inherent in the average mental capacity (talent) of a pool players?

Maybe it just takes a lot more effort to top that plateau.

What do you think and why?
Click to expand...

I think you are correct.....EFFORT.

Many players just don't care to get much better.

randyg
 
They who lack talent expect things to happen without effort, they ascribe failure to lack of inspiration or ability, or to misfortune, rather than insufficient application. At the core of every true talent there is awareness of the difficulties inherent in any achievement, and the confidence that by persistence and patience something worthwhile will be realized. Talent is a species of vigor. I forgot who said this but they didn't believe in natural talent being a must to succeed, I do. I have seen to many players over the last 40 years who play almost everyday and play the same level now they did after their first few years of playing.
 
Jodacus said:
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level?
Click to expand...

Good question Jodacus. :)

If you mean the average Joe, I'd be surprised if they hit that level. D+/C- at best.

If you mean the average actual pool player, I'd still be surprised to see them get that high. A "C" is about the best to expect, the kind of person who runs 3-4 balls on average. Might have a runout here and there, but not much more.

As to why, there are a lot of reasons, but there is a huge skill gap between a "B" and "C" for me. A "B" player wouldn't be a chump to me. Still more than capable of pulling off a tournament. That difference in skill gap between your "B" and "C" player is the difference between a game and a sport. Preparation and practice close the gap, but you need to want more from it than banging balls into holes.



.
 
A thinkers game

Jodacus,
Pool is definitely a thinkers game, without concious thought and smart practice with a defined goal its hard to succeed at growing your skill. Aiming, position planning, stroke and English selection and know the travel speed off the ball due to the cut applied and precision stroke selection not to mention you need to understand bank angles for cue ball travel routes and it wouldnt hurt to know how to bank balls when you can get away if you miss. There is a lot of thought to developing the tools you need to be a described "B" player. To make to "A" you have to really focus keeping those "B" player skills and refining your fundamentals and learn all the small tools of the game or its special methods. Those are learned at the table and need to come from someone who paid some dues getting them in some form, this way they can tell you why something is very important. You just cant have doubts about what your doing, if you do that is what you need to practice and you better practice smart not hard but hard will separate the men from the boys even then.

Just another lovely day in paradise.....

336Robin :thumbup:

aimisthegameinpool.com
aimisthegameinpool@yahoo.com
 
Jodacus said:
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level.

Do you think its something inherent in pool or is it something
inherent in the average mental capacity (talent) of a pool players?

Maybe it just takes a lot more effort to top that plateau.

What do you think and why?
Click to expand...

Getting beyond that level takes a time and effort commitment that most do not have given jobs and life. Getting to that level can be done by just playing a fair amount and practicing a little. Getting above it requires a much higher level of understanding and performance of patterns, cue ball pathways, speed control and basic stroke fundamentals.
 
It has something to do with standard deviation. The abilities of pool players likely follows a normal distribution. So the bulk of the players will be near average in skill, within 1 standard deviation of the mean.
 
Just like any other sport. At some point some folks just are NOT going to see the shot as well as others.

Your stroke can be perfect, and you aiming can be top notch, but puting the cb to the exact spot from 9 feet away does require some pinpoint accuracy using the old peepers.....

Not all folks that shoot a gun will become Marksmen. Not all follks that play baseball will EVER be able to hit a 95 mph heater, nor will they be able to stop a slap shot from 20 feet away.... at some point most folks will top out.

Now, some folks in all sports also exceed their natural ability through hard work and the uncompromsing attitude to NEVER give up no matter what...... but how many have that going for them too :)
 
Subtle differences distinguish the good from the great and the average from the good. Talent counts for alot, but not as much as some may think.
There is so much more to becoming a professional pool player than just having sound fundamentals, a reliable stroke, years of experience, and a desire to learn more and improve. There are so many intangibles to consider; the physical and mental health of a player are two of many issues which can determine whether a good player progresses to become a very good player, and whether a very good player progresses to become a great player. I speak of mental health in reference to strength of character and an ability to think clearly under extreme pressure while maintaining excellent control of the cue stick.

There obviously is much more to becoming a strong “A” rated player than these two qualities. The differing exposures to excellent players during the formative years of developing a sound game is one of many distinguishing features which help to determine how quickly and how far someone might progress as a player. I believe early exposure to top flight players who compete on a regular basis is essential to the formation of a quality player.

Only through competition can a player fully develop into an excellent pool player. This is where confidence is nurtured and winning attitudes are developed. It is not enough to just have the ability to run racks of Nine Ball, Straight Pool, or any of the other games with practice alone. Good players must match wits with opponents who constantly change gears. Strong players have ways of altering an average player’s natural rhythm without their ever knowing why they aren’t playing up to their normal standards. A top flight player must be able to play at a high level in the heat of battle and maintain great concentration over long periods of time. This is where good physical health comes in.

Tom
 
we express ourselves through the game, AND the game {paradoxically} does the same

Jodacus said:
Why do so many players top out at the C+ / B- level.

Do you think its something inherent in pool or is it something
inherent in the average mental capacity (talent) of a pool players?

Maybe it just takes a lot more effort to top that plateau.

What do you think and why?
Click to expand...

I used to practice with Buddy Hall in Tampa Florida when we both lived there and he was always an inspiration.....at times I would try to imitate his stroke/grip/tempo and found out that it worked really well for Buddy and not so well for me....that's the issue, even though we all have common denominators in our games, we still have to find a way to do it our own way.
Buddy has shown me things that don't work for me, but work for other people and I've learned the same type things from Omaha John, Mike Lebron, Efren, Hopkins, David Howard, Earl Strickland, Jr. Weldon, Jersey Red, Eddie Taylor, Big John, Doug Smith, etc.

When you pay attention around guys like this you'll often pick up key bits of wisdom, especially if you know how to elicit it. Sometimes you can use it directly, and other times you have to tweak it a bit to conform to your own personal style....learning to improve is more of a journey than a destination....and just like travel broadens our horizons, so does understanding how others experience their personal reality, especially at the highest level.

We, that strive to discover the perfection in the game realize that we express ourselves through the game, AND the game {paradoxically} must express its self though us..... and this, in appearance is as unique as a fingerprint. For more info. www.cjwiley.com
 
Mostly, people just don't "want it" badly enough...and they're not willing (or able...or both) to give in to the sacrifices necessary to make it happen. CJ's point, of things that work for some, don't work for others...and the ones that want it bad enough find a way to make things work for themselves, is spot on! It's one of the main reasons why there is no "one size fits all" for pool.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
 
randyg said:
I think you are correct.....EFFORT.

Many players just don't care to get much better.

randyg
Click to expand...
+1

For many if not most their goal in playing pool is to have fun and just maybe "not be the worst" player around

Funny thing is, they can go out, play league at a relatively low skill level and have a blast while the "pool expert" goes out, plays pool, missed a couple of shots and gets all pissed off and goes home mad

So, in a Zen like world, who is the "better" pool player?

By the way, I'm the guy going home pissed off after losing 2 out of 10 games
 
I'm new to AZ and just getting back in to playing after 10 years or so but it's interesting to see some of the answers from my perspective. Many players on here are very serious and that's great but I'd have to agree with those that say most "average" players just play to have fun. Just like you can play poker at home with a few buddies for $20 a round or go to a tournament and play for millions, it really depends on what you find fun and that fits in to your life.

Pool is a fun past time for most of us, we may want to improve but don't have the time to practice in order to improve to a higher level. Myself, I have a more than full time job (usually put in min 50 hours a week), have 2 kids and really only play during the winter as I'm playing golf in the summer. If I play league, it will be to add some competitive action to make it fun, if it stops being fun then I'll stop playing league.... Just as a note, it's not because we don't want to make the effort or don't care to make the effort, just that in the great scheme of things many of us just don't have the time when compared to our other commitments.

Just my perspective
 
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Excellence in pool, as in anything is a total commitment. Anything less nets less. What constitutes "fun"? For me, it was LEARNING to play to the BEST of my ability and then stretch that ability to another level, then another, and another, all the time knowing I will never learn in my lifetime all I would like to know. Total Commitment to excellence, that was hard but it was also FUN.

Tom
 
TRWpool said:
Excellence in pool, as in anything is a total commitment. Anything less nets less. What constitutes "fun"? For me, it was LEARNING to play to the BEST of my ability and then stretch that ability to another level, then another, and another, all the time knowing I will never learn in my lifetime all I would like to know. Total Commitment to excellence, that was hard but it was also FUN.

Tom
Click to expand...

Agreed, everyone has their own definition of what fun is. Unfortunately, no one can be excellent at everything, you pick and choose. If you choose pool to be that thing you're excellent at then great for you. For me being a great engineer and father comes before being a great pool player.
 
Waylander,
I think that you have made the best choice of all. Pool is a wonderful game but it is still a game. Pool has its place in the scheme of things but in choosing a career which provides for your family you have made a wise choice. There can be excellence in all things. It only requires total commitment. That doesn't have to mean to the exclusion of everything else. But it does have to mean you have set your priorities as to what is most important in your life.

Tom
 
backplaying said:
They who lack talent expect things to happen without effort, they ascribe failure to lack of inspiration or ability, or to misfortune, rather than insufficient application. At the core of every true talent there is awareness of the difficulties inherent in any achievement, and the confidence that by persistence and patience something worthwhile will be realized. Talent is a species of vigor. I forgot who said this but they didn't believe in natural talent being a must to succeed, I do. I have seen to many players over the last 40 years who play almost everyday and play the same level now they did after their first few years of playing.
Click to expand...

Or the flip side, their ego has them believing that they are already good, so why take a lesson or read a book? That would be a waste.

One reason I say that is a guy who I can beat (yeah, there's lot of those around:rolleyes:) was listening in on a conversation I was having where I said I was going to take a lesson. He looked very surprised and said, "Why would YOU need a lesson?" I just smiled, thinking, 'wow,...cuz on the big picture of pool, I suck!' That guy won't read anything I recommend or watch a video or nothing. He's good enough, in his mind.

I've seen that trait in many players who are stuck.

Jeff Livingston
 
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