Players in National Tournaments

cueball1950

cueball1950

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here is my question!

If you were going to hold a Major National 9 Ball Championship Tournament would you let players play that were not american. ;ie players playing here and living here but have no U S Citizenship. Maybe only a green card. What about Players from Puerto Rico which is a Provence of the U S.
I am talking about players like Mika Immanen, Thorston Hohnman. They work here and sometimes live here. would you let them in or make it strickly U S Citizens. i know that Jose Parica is a citizen.

My answers:.Only natural born citizens can play..or people living here with a U S Citizenship papers or a drivers license from any state to prove that you became a citizen you can play. Puerto Rico is a different and touchy subject. Although it is a U S Province the country in itself does not want to become part of the U S....

i would also start new 9 ball rules to play by.

1) no more Jumping or jump cues of any kind. REASON..to bring more skill back to the game itself. back to like it was before people started jumping.

2) say good bye to phinolic tips. tips must be nonplastic tip and all tips must be made of leather or some type of fiberous material.

Well that is just my opinion. what do you think and what would you do if it was YOUR tournament.............................mike
2) say good bye to phenolic tips
 
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I am talking in hypotheyicals here. My question is....If YOU were going to promote/own start this tournament and wanted to make it a NATIONAL event. who would you let play? that simple..........mike
 
Seems to me every tournament which "bans" certain players is doomed to failure, at least around here. The most successful tournaments are those which allow anyone to play. If I am running the tournament, I want as many players as possible. The more the better! And I want the best players. If I regularly play against the best players, it will help to improve my game.

So far as "banning" jump cues, tips, etc., I feel doing this would give an advantage to certain players. This would be a "rigged" tournament in my opinion. I will not play in these types of tournaments myself. What they do is keep changing the rules so the locals have an advantage. Someone comes along from outside the area and wins the tournament, so then they come up a new rule to keep that specific player from winning. If it is a weekly tournament, you have to ask; "What are the rules THIS week?"

I feel the most *fair* rules for everybody are BCA rules by the book.

Also for those who play in many different tournaments, it can get to be quite confusing to remember this tournament has this rule, that tournament has that rule, etc. Lately I only play in tournaments with BCA rules (local). And a lot of the tournaments around here have switched to by the book BCA rules. These rules are well thought out, prevent cheating, and are fair to *all* players.
 
Mike,
I would have to agree with BB on letting anyone play. Why wouldn't you want the likes of Efren, Busta, Soquet and the others there? Get the top talent, regardless of where they come from.
Banning jump shots? How about just banning jump cues. If you can pull off a full cue jump, more power to you. It's got to be the cue you are shooting with. That would just about eliminate the need for a cue with a phonelic tip. If someone has one on their break cue, big deal. But it's a break cue only. You shoot all other shots with your playing cue.
Steve
 
I don't know how an 'independent tournament' could be called "NATIONAL".

'National' implies that it is for USA residents if you're associated with a WORLD org like the Olympics. Only residents of the country that holds the tournament are allowed to play. Also implied is a World championship that would include all the top National champs for the various countries.
 
Now we have a comedian on board. Like i said in the other post..never mind.. not worht repeating twice..........mike
 
well what i am trying to get across that no one is getting is that
1) this tournament would be for American players only
2) i never said it would be an open tournament...see #1

By banning jump cues and such like i mentioned, how that could be construed as rigging a tournament is beyond me. everybody would have to play by the same rules.
And what is wrong with holding a NATIONAL tournament just for american players?. How many tournaments every year held in the U S are won by Americans? So why not have a tournament just for americans.
maybe someone for the Philippines can answer this question... Are any foreign players not from the Philippines allowed to enter your national Tournament?..................mike
 
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cueball1950 said:
...By banning jump cues and such like i mentioned, how that could be construed as rigging a tournament is beyond me...
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Little things give certain players an advantage over other players. These players spend a lot of time practicing these little things, so in my opinion, they also deserve to win.

For example around here jump shots are allowed in many tournaments. There is one player (one of the best in area) who has invested a *lot* of time practicing jump shots. This gives him an advantage and he wins a lot.

So what can happen is this guy is winning a lot because of his jump shots. So a tournament bans jump shots. It only hurts this *one* particular player and takes away his advantage.

And I have seen this happen. Someone will come along who has spent a lot of time practicing a particular skill, they will have an advantage because of this skill, then a tournament will ban that specific type of playing to keep that specific player from winning.

Or they will out and out ban specific players from playing in a tournament.

Then the other players can win.

I think the way to win is not by banning players or banning specific types of shots, but by practicing and becoming a better player.

I have lost to the above player many many times because he made a jump shot and won. I congratulate him on his excellent playing when this happens. And my reaction to this is not to ban his jump shots, but that I need to practice my game more and learn to make jump shots myself.

So that player above motivates me to improve my game. This is the way things should be in my opinion.

Also note that people who play in tournaments which ban players or cetain shots are weaker players. Eventually they will have to play in a regional tournament or other tournament where the shots/players are not banned, then they don't last long. They can't compete.
 
a jump cue is not like a corked bat. neither is a phenolic tip.

And as for banning no us citizens. i think they have tournaments liek the one you want already. in the deep south, help in barns. and required wardrobe is white sheets.
 
Billy_Bob said:
....I have lost to the above player many many times because he made a jump shot and won....
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Just curious; how can you "lose many, many times" because your opponent made a jump shot. Was it hill-hill every time? Did you dog the rest of the match/games because he made one jump shot? Did he run out the set after every successful jump shot?!


Eric
 
degenrat said:
a jump cue is not like a corked bat. neither is a phenolic tip.

And as for banning no us citizens. i think they have tournaments liek the one you want already. in the deep south, help in barns. and required wardrobe is white sheets.
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Where did you ever see me say no U S citizens in this hypothetical tournament. what i said was do you think the people in the Philippines would allow a non Philippine to play in their national tournament. In fact my original train of thought was to hold a traditional tournament just for american players if you go back and read my original post....last post on this subject.......mr wilson please delete this post before it gets any worse.............................mike
 
Mike, we hold a National Tournament in Puerto Rico. But then, we are a small Island compared with the U.S.

The PR tournament is divided into 8 Regional Championships. First four Players from each Region are selected for the Finals. Anyone can play (and I mean anyone) but they have to provide a valid driver's license with a Puerto Rico address within each of the Regions. If the player has a San Juan address on his ID but is now living in the South and shows up for the tournament HE WILL NOT PLAY in the South.

Maybe you can rename your tournament to be the New York State National Championship. That way anyone living in the State could play regardless of their citizenship. Rules must indicate that all players must provide a valid ID with a New York State address. No if and buts, a valid NY address, even if you know he/she is in fact living in your area.

Now, changing the subject a little.....Puerto Rico is a U.S. Possession or Territory. (A Colony for NATO purposes). We are all US Citizens. We are already part of the U.S. regardless of our political agenda or status. About half the Puerto Rican population wants permanent affiliation (some sort of statehood) with the U.S. but this group is divided into Republicans and Democrats. The other half wants to remain with our current status (remain as a Commonwealth) and are mostly Democrats. Three (3) percent wants total disaffiliation or total independence. This 3 percent of the Independence population, plus the divide among those favoring Statehood (or similar status) have always shifted the votes to maintain Puerto Rico as a Commonwealth (no permanent affiliation to the US) whenever the Puerto Ricans have been consulted on the matter.

I for one believe that our political status will never be decided, and believe me that this is a very hot and touchy subject with Puerto Ricans. Our political choices, beliefs, status, residency, or birth-place should not be relevant in order to be considered to play in any US Tournament.

Should we prevent players like Jose Garcia, Tony Robles, Mike Lebron, Frankie Hernandez, Rob Saez, Flaco Rodriguez, Luis Viera, Julio Aquino, just to name a few, to play in US Tournaments because they were born in Puerto Rico or their parents are from Puerto Rico? I believe not because regardless of this fact, they are all US Citizens.

Therefore, and going back to the subject, I guess that you could make some clear rules for your tournament in order to prevent problems with players that are currently living in your state and have chosen to do so from their own will. It really shouldn't matter, where they were born. What should matter is that they are in the U.S of A.

Harold
 
no US citizens was supposed to read non-US citizens

My opinion should be clear. it's a rediculous question.

And let's remember what you said a few posts ago:

"My answers:.Only natural born citizens can play..or people living here with a U S Citizenship papers or a drivers license from any state to prove that you became a citizen you can play. "

Residency is what should be required not citizenship.

Am i any less american than you, having lived here for 22 of my 27 years on this earth, but without citizenship?

Rediculous question. If you live here you can play here. goes for all sports. i pay american taxes, work an american job and own an american house, car, truck. married to an american wife.

Your question, point of view, everything is insulting.

American. Hmmph.
 
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What are the rules for the Asian tournements like the one Efren recently won? Are they limited to citizens of those countries or only Asians?
 
What relevance is it, how other countires handle their affairs? this is America. not guam, not the phillipines, America.
 
Sorry, but yes you are "less American"

Sorry, but yes you are less (US)American I presume by choice. There is a difference between a citizen and a non-citizen. Why you would choose to be a non-citizen after being here for practically all of your life is beyond me.

There is only one difference between a native born and naturalized citizen, you could never be President or VP. Non-citizens on the other hand are in a much lesser position. It takes little more than a whim to have your papers revoked and you sent packing if someone decides you are an undesirable alien.

Your attitude, "American hmmph" is what is insulting. You choose to take advantage of all of the benefits of living in the US without being a citizen.

Hu


degenrat said:
Am i any less american than you, having lived here for 22 of my 27 years on this earth, but without citizenship?

Rediculous question. If you live here you can play here. goes for all sports. i pay american taxes, work an american job and own an american house, car, truck. married to an american wife.

Your question, point of view, everything is insulting.

American. Hmmph.
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my attitude is misconstrued. My point was, to state that I am as american as anyone else.

"You choose to take advantage of all of the benefits of living in the US without being a citizen."

have i knocked the usa? i thought i was saying that I feel like i am an american. Obviously for legal purposes i am not treated as such, but i am as american as anyone born here. i woudl fight for this country in a second. As for takign advantage, if you mean contributing to the economy then yes, i guess i am "taking advantage". Since i am schooled here, work here, live here, pay income and property tax here i guess you oculd consider that "taking advantage" oin some obscure way. I recognize the UsA's greatness as a country and support it as such. Taking advantage? Please. am i sending money out of country? importing family mnembers? taking govt grants? NO.

I am as american as anyone.

Get off your soap box.

The reason i have not gained citizenship is because of my feeligs that i am an american with or without a peice of paper saying so. Will i become a citizen? yes. but not to feel any more american, just to stop dealing with green card paperwork.
 
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you prove my point

I have worked since I was twelve. I never needed a green card to work. That is one small demonstration of the fact that you are not as much of a (US)American as I am or the millions of others that don't need a green card to work. You are taking advantage of the benefits of being in the US, again by your own admission. Where did you go to school? Where are you employed? Where do you live? Where do you own property?

You are not as much an (US) American as anyone because you choose not to be. Feeling that you are and being an American are two different things. How many times have you voted in an election?

Hu



degenrat said:
my attitude is misconstrued. My point was, to state that I am as american as anyone else.

"You choose to take advantage of all of the benefits of living in the US without being a citizen."

have i knocked the usa? i thought i was saying that I feel like i am an american. Obviously for legal purposes i am not treated as such, but i am as american as anyone born here. i woudl fight for this country in a second. As for takign advantage, if you mean contributing to the economy then yes, i guess i am "taking advantage". Since i am schooled here, work here, live here, pay income and property tax here i guess you oculd consider that "taking advantage" oin some obscure way. I recognize the UsA's greatness as a country and support it as such. Taking advantage? Please. am i sending money out of country? importing family mnembers? taking govt grants? NO.

I am as american as anyone.

Get off your soap box.

The reason i have not gained citizenship is because of my feeligs that i am an american with or without a peice of paper saying so. Will i become a citizen? yes. but not to feel any more american, just to stop dealing with green card paperwork.
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