Players jump up... but why?

nataddrho

nataddrho

www.digicue.net
Silver Member
One of the most discussed topics in pool fundamentals is "staying down" or "not jumping up". It is common community theory that "jumping up" is the cause of inconsistent pool. So is a quick jabbing backstroke, a quick poke then a pull back, steering, and body English. But why do we see these things crop up so often? How do you fix them?

I'd like to present my answer to this question as the following:

The key to consistent and great pool is the relentless commitment to eliminate all distractions.

What I mean by this, is that I believe all of the issues I listed above are actually not habits at all, but symptoms if an incomplete solution being executed. In other words, the entire anatomy of the pool shot has not been completely analyzed. A pool shot consists of every path and movement of every object that will be put into motion during the shot. Of course you can pick out the contact point, or ghost ball, and you know where the OB is going to go, and which part of the pocket it is going to hit. But what about the path of the cue ball? Will it actually just clip the ball next to it, or miss it? How will this change the path? Where will that other ball go? Does this change the effectiveness of the shot? Can I modify the path?

Great pool players stand there and answer absolutely all of these questions before they shoot. Then they get down to shoot and realize that there are some more unanswered questions. They possess the discipline to stop, and restart their problem solving cycle over again until all unknowns have been eliminated, how ever many times it takes. Every single unknown is a distraction, and can be just as distracting as someone walking in your line of view. A distraction diverts your mind, and your eyes follow, and then your head, then torso and body.

If a piece of the "pool shot solution" remains unsolved, and you are aware that you didn't solve it (through laziness most often) then your mind will continue to try to think about it, leading to the fundamental issues listed above.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to let the complete understanding of all details of the pool shot BE your aiming system. Once THIS becomes a habit, pool will become an organic process for you instead of a procedural one, and you will have a lot more fun.

One more note. I believe that when high level players are asked about fundamental details and they respond with "I don't know, I just shoot", or "you're thinking way too much", or "HAMB", that they have already learned to assess every detail without being aware of it, or they don't possess the facility to express what they mean.

I believe if you make your pre shot routine "the promise of completely predicting every part of a shot before you shoot", your fundamental errors will start to go away on their own, and your confidence will rise.
 
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I think a lot of people jump up after contact with the cb is made. I know for myself, that this is the case. When I jump up, its after the cb is gone, and its because I know I hit the shot incorrectly and will either miss, or miss position. ;)

I wonder what percentage of of times when people do jump up, the cause is because of similar issues (know they hit it bad) after contact?
 
A lot of amateurs that jump up do it out of anticipation of the outcome of the shot. Will I hit it right? Will it go in? Will I get my position? They can't wait until the shot is actually made, their anxiety over what will happen is so great.
 
Neil said:
A lot of amateurs that jump up do it out of anticipation of the outcome of the shot. Will I hit it right? Will it go in? Will I get my position? They can't wait until the shot is actually made, their anxiety over what will happen is so great.
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Watch videos of efren playing rotation in the last couple years. It is not just amateurs.
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
compensation from aligning the shot poorly to begin with
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That's it & it's subconscious because the subconscious is trying to save the shot.

If the conscious mind knew that the alignment was incorrect we would fix it but our conscious mind does not know that.

That is why I so often say that I would much rather trust my subconscious mind rather than my intellect or my conscious mind.

When in the Zone we are almost unconscious & can't even remember much of what we did. We were on the auto pilot of our subconscious.

That is why CJ Wiley was talking about meditation as a possible means to getting into that state. I've never been one for that kind of stuff but I don't doubt that it's possible but even it probably would not work all of the time.

Best to ALL.
 
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It can be due to many causes. One thing for sure, once you start, it does becomes a habit, and it is a very hard habit to break. I know from experience. I didn't even realize it was happening until a good friend told me one day that I was coming up on a lot of my shots. At some point I started coming off the shot, didn't even know it, and it had become a habit.

What I did to stop was keep my hand on the table, and froze in the position at cue ball contact until the ball fell in the pocket. After several months, I was no longer jumping up.

The main effect of jumping up, is it causes your eyes to move. Now if my eyes were in my belly button I could move my head all I wanted, but mine are in my head.

Try hitting a baseball or golf ball while moving your eyes moving all over the place. They don't call it eye/hand coordination for nothing. :)
 
nataddrho said:
One of the most discussed topics in pool fundamentals is "staying down" or "not jumping up". It is common community theory that "jumping up" is the cause of inconsistent pool. So is a quick jabbing backstroke, a quick poke then a pull back, steering, and body English. But why do we see these things crop up so often? How do you fix them?

I'd like to present my answer to this question as the following:

The key to consistent and great pool is the relentless commitment to eliminate all distractions.

What I mean by this, is that I believe all of the issues I listed above are actually not habits at all, but symptoms if an incomplete solution being executed. In other words, the entire anatomy of the pool shot has not been completely analyzed. A pool shot consists of every path and movement of every object that will be put into motion during the shot. Of course you can pick out the contact point, or ghost ball, and you know where the OB is going to go, and which part of the pocket it is going to hit. But what about the path of the cue ball? Will it actually just clip the ball next to it, or miss it? How will this change the path? Where will that other ball go? Does this change the effectiveness of the shot? Can I modify the path?

Great pool players stand there and answer absolutely all of these questions before they shoot. Then they get down to shoot and realize that there are some more unanswered questions. They possess the discipline to stop, and restart their problem solving cycle over again until all unknowns have been eliminated, how ever many times it takes. Every single unknown is a distraction, and can be just as distracting as someone walking in your line of view. A distraction diverts your mind, and your eyes follow, and then your head, then torso and body.

If a piece of the "pool shot solution" remains unsolved, and you are aware that you didn't solve it (through laziness most often) then your mind will continue to try to think about it, leading to the fundamental issues listed above.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to let the complete understanding of all details of the pool shot BE your aiming system. Once THIS becomes a habit, pool will become an organic process for you instead of a procedural one, and you will have a lot more fun.

One more note. I believe that when high level players are asked about fundamental details and they respond with "I don't know, I just shoot", or "you're thinking way too much", or "HAMB", that they have already learned to assess every detail without being aware of it, or they don't possess the facility to express what they mean.

I believe if you make your pre shot routine "the promise of completely predicting every part of a shot before you shoot", your fundamental errors will start to go away on their own, and your confidence will rise.
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I studied this problem couple of years ago watching dozens of vids looking for the parts where the eye pattern of players was visible. And then it struck me - every single time when a player jumps on a shot his/her eyes were following the object ball going (or not going) into the pocket. The more tougher the angle was the more obvious it was.
So my theory on this topic is following:
we aim the shot when standing while we shoot it when our head is quite near to the level of the table - this is because the lower we are the less we perceive 3D picture of the table, it is becoming more 2D which is more suitable for precise hit on selected spot. Now the tougher the shot the less certain we are about the outcome of the shot so when we shoot some 60 degree table-lenght draw shot we are not that sure that the ball will go in so subconsiously we want to see if the ball goes in or not. For that we jump up to see "better" = more 3D.
So how to prevent jumping on the shot? Quite easy - DONT follow the object ball with your eyes to the pocket (therefore no need to see it "better" in 3D=no jumping), stay focused on the contact point even after the shot - it is that simple. Try it, you will be amazed with the outcome, film yourself with a camera and the huge difference will shock you :wink:
This is my very own theory, you are welcome to test it for yourself :thumbup:
 
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watch again and see how precise the cue ball placement needs to be for the next shot. Usually the player doesn't have the focus or the shot is very demanding. If you don't give the brain an exact place for the cueball to land or it is very tough, they mentally "give up" and just shoot the shot without enough information. Kind of what the op alluded to. like English said, give the subconscious an exact place and you will align correctly.

Just my opinion of course.
 
Neil said:
A lot of amateurs that jump up do it out of anticipation of the outcome of the shot. Will I hit it right? Will it go in? Will I get my position? They can't wait until the shot is actually made, their anxiety over what will happen is so great.
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I concur with this but want to add that i believe the reason they have this anxiety that makes them jump up to see the result is they didn't "believe" in the shot they just rifled off in the first place.

I think it's a lack of commitment. They're unsure of their choice or not believing in it 100% when they drop on the shot and as a result the second they start moving the cue forward they're body is already starting to pop up like a jack in the box to "see" the result as Neil said.

One thing about this game is you have to have confidence and really believe in what you're doing or the results are less than satisfactory
 
Neil said:
A lot of amateurs that jump up do it out of anticipation of the outcome of the shot. Will I hit it right? Will it go in? Will I get my position? They can't wait until the shot is actually made, their anxiety over what will happen is so great.
Click to expand...

Not just amateurs ..I've seen the best players in the world do it when it's a tight shot or tough position. It's a natural reaction.

Keeping your head down in golf is also important ... staring at that spot until your arms finally force your head up from the swing through. A very good player I used to play with used to say Keep your head down "DON'T BE IN A HURRY TO SEE A BAD SHOT!" lol he was right because if you looked up that was exactly what you were going to see haha
 
Jumping up on or after a shot

Chuck Fields said:
I think a lot of people jump up after contact with the cb is made. I know for myself, that this is the case. When I jump up, its after the cb is gone, and its because I know I hit the shot incorrectly and will either miss, or miss position. ;)

I wonder what percentage of of times when people do jump up, the cause is because of similar issues (know they hit it bad) after contact?
Click to expand...

There's no valid reason for ever jumping up during or immediately after a shot.

It's a habit created by not controlling one's nerves or a habit picked up from subconsciously imitating other players...

As any good instructor will tell you, if you jump up immediately after shots, you will likely eventually do it before the execution of the shot is complete.
 
Donny Lutz said:
There's no valid reason for ever jumping up during or immediately after a shot.

It's a habit created by not controlling one's nerves or a habit picked up from subconsciously imitating other players...

As any good instructor will tell you, if you jump up immediately after shots, you will likely eventually do it before the execution of the shot is complete.
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Good thing I dont do that often. :groucho:

Can I offer you a copy of my aiming system? Its called Put it in the Hole..... I think it would be a dandy addition to your curriculum...... Its simple on the outside, but takes a bit of practice....... :thumbup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8
 
I had a teammate with a bad case of the 'jump ups'.

I tried to help, assuring him that the balls would not explode.

He apparently didn't hear the 'not' part. Things got worse.:(




ps: Yep, Efren does sometimes come up out of the shot...especially long ones..it looks like when he is fighting this, that he will employ an exaggerated 'forward press', moving his head and body slighty forward down the shot line as he follows through, to help stay down.

At least, that is what I think I sometimes see when he shoots. ICBW (again):confused:
 
You're onto something with wanting to eliminate all the distractions.

That's why Tommy was so good at pinball.
 
My experience shows that watching the contact point of cue ball and object ball from the shooting position is the true completion of a shot- Nick Varner refers to it as "watching the collision" from the shooting position.
Every sport requires eye focus at the point of execution. The very best at any sport do this most consistently with great eyesight to match and equally great eye/body coordination and mostly without conscious effort.

Some of this can be enhanced via training, but I also believe that some of it is just your body/mind/emotional make- up - emotions meaning how your body deals with stress or conflict - your own natural ability to relax as your perform any function under competitive stress. That is why practice records in sports don't count in the record books.
 
Chuck Fields said:
I think a lot of people jump up after contact with the cb is made. I know for myself, that this is the case. When I jump up, its after the cb is gone, and its because I know I hit the shot incorrectly and will either miss, or miss position. ;)

I wonder what percentage of of times when people do jump up, the cause is because of similar issues (know they hit it bad) after contact?
Click to expand...

I would answer that as 99.9999999% of the time. I do not believe anyone jumps up before they make contact and they do it as you and I do in that we know as soon as the CB leaves our tip we miss hit it, so it has absolutely no affect on the shot. Regardless, staying down is good technique, but it has absolutely no affect on the shot after contact is made.
 
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