After seeing Fatboy's thread I was wondering if anyone knows whether there is or has ever been a players union for professional pool?
Players Union???
- Thread starter hilla_hilla
- Start date
hilla_hilla said:
What a well written thread!
RunoutalloverU said:
ha, ha, ha!
You crack me up!
No. Never will be either. They didn't learn after getting stiffed at the US Open (Guaranteed PRize Money) Haven't learned after joining the UPA who were supposed to protect them from things like this - haven't learned after the IPT and won't ever learn.
What is escrow anyway and how does one verify it? I mean I know what escrow is but how does one verify it and who has access to it?
All the time the phrase "don't play unless the money is in escrow" comes about. So if I put on a tournament who do I escrow to and what are the terms?
A Player's Union? Good luck with that.
What is escrow anyway and how does one verify it? I mean I know what escrow is but how does one verify it and who has access to it?
All the time the phrase "don't play unless the money is in escrow" comes about. So if I put on a tournament who do I escrow to and what are the terms?
A Player's Union? Good luck with that.
minor details
A player's union needs cash to operate. Trying to get money from players who don't have it is a losing battle so the players will keep on going it alone and keep on jumping at every piece of pie in the sky. They'll keep on being disappointed when the things that seem too good to be true are too.
The players aren't really the fools that they act like time after time, they just have zero bargaining power. No bargaining power so they have no money. No money so they have no bargaining power. That is a vicious little circle.
Hu
hilla_hilla said:
A player's union needs cash to operate. Trying to get money from players who don't have it is a losing battle so the players will keep on going it alone and keep on jumping at every piece of pie in the sky. They'll keep on being disappointed when the things that seem too good to be true are too.
The players aren't really the fools that they act like time after time, they just have zero bargaining power. No bargaining power so they have no money. No money so they have no bargaining power. That is a vicious little circle.
Hu
I am reminded of Mark Trainer, poor fellow.
When the IPT first came to the fore with its mega millions, Mark Trainer thought he saw an opportunity to buy as many IPT players as he could and be their agent.
Oh, the promises he made, and some he kept, giving pool players a $25,000 signing bonus.
His vision was that he would get corporate sponsors and have pool players receive hundreds of thousands of dollars doing commercials. He contacted a sports agent company that works with baseball and football players.
Poor Mark Trainer must have forked out $100,000-plus.
As we all know today, the IPT went under. Mark Trainer is stuck for his investment monies that he paid out to all the pool players he tried to buy.
A players union won't do much good because nobody cares. The sports agent company did not seem to be interested in pool players.
United we stand, and united we all fall down!
JAM
When the IPT first came to the fore with its mega millions, Mark Trainer thought he saw an opportunity to buy as many IPT players as he could and be their agent.
Oh, the promises he made, and some he kept, giving pool players a $25,000 signing bonus.
His vision was that he would get corporate sponsors and have pool players receive hundreds of thousands of dollars doing commercials. He contacted a sports agent company that works with baseball and football players.
Poor Mark Trainer must have forked out $100,000-plus.
As we all know today, the IPT went under. Mark Trainer is stuck for his investment monies that he paid out to all the pool players he tried to buy.
A players union won't do much good because nobody cares. The sports agent company did not seem to be interested in pool players.
United we stand, and united we all fall down!
JAM
its completely hopeless, we will run out of trees to make pool cues out of before professional pool has any real organization with power.
ShootingArts said:
No it doesn't. At least not anything the players can't afford. All a player's union needs are players with world class talent who refuse to let that talent be used up for what amounts to nothing, and a cell phone.
Seriously. Collectively they have bargaining power. Individually they have none.
The issues are that no one can agree. Hardly anyone will choose to go with the group. Power corrupts. No one wants to put in the time.
There were plenty of folks willing to help with such a union last time this happened. Nothing ever came of it.
Our other resident gazillionaire Goldwater offered to "help" in some way (don't think he offered to finance it, although he did offer to sue Trudeau) and he reported back that he found little support in the way of any players wanting to rock the good ship IPT.
The saddest part of this whole thing however is that the UPA is 100% to blame for this. Their entire platform was built on giving their members peace of mind that the money was secured for any event sanctioned by the UPA.
No one else is at fault here except the UPA for allowing their members to play in an event that is not secure.
The UPA is supposed to be the player's union and it failed them.
JAM said:LOL!
JAM
Maybe instead of money we could dole out meth instead of prize money
1st- 10 fixes
2nd- 7 fixes
3rd- 5 fixes
Know anybody that would be interested?
JAM said:
And you have a nice three days straight.
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RunoutalloverU said:
I do not know what you mean by "three days straight."
If you are trying to hint that I am a substance abuser, you are nothing more than a nasty AzBilliards troll.
Antagonize somebody else. I posted on this thread in good stead. You, on the other hand, are a trouble-maker.
JAM
thirty five years tells me it isn't gonna change
John,
Any "union" or group of competitors whose success is based on the stronger members of the group protecting the weaker for nothing other than altruistic reasons is sure to fail. I have seen competitors organize and fail more times than I can remember since 1970. There is an ever so familiar pattern. Great talk and hope in the beginning but nobody has as strong a commitment to the group's success as they have to their own so inevitably the group crumbles.
Cash is needed for a union with teeth. Early labor unions were able to at least keep their members alive when they went on strike from past membership dues and widespread support of workers other places. Where is that money going to come from in pool? On the other side of the coin, how many pro pool events in the US are profitable now? If players make demands to people that are already only marginally in the black or losing money will these people continue to put on events or will they say good riddance to something that is more headache than profit anyway?
There has to be a living in a sport before there can be a competitor's association or union with any teeth. I believe NASCAR has a driver's group now however in the early days of NASCAR Bill France squashed an early would be driver's union like a bug. Pool as a sport with a tour and respected pro's is in it's infancy at best, it may never exist in the US.
Bottom line, lofty ideas and ideals don't mean a thing when the bills are piling up and there are mouths to feed. Each competitor will do what they have to do to survive. Anybody with fifty thousand in prize money to wave around can bust any player's union in the US in a heartbeat. That is today's reality.
Hu
John,
Any "union" or group of competitors whose success is based on the stronger members of the group protecting the weaker for nothing other than altruistic reasons is sure to fail. I have seen competitors organize and fail more times than I can remember since 1970. There is an ever so familiar pattern. Great talk and hope in the beginning but nobody has as strong a commitment to the group's success as they have to their own so inevitably the group crumbles.
Cash is needed for a union with teeth. Early labor unions were able to at least keep their members alive when they went on strike from past membership dues and widespread support of workers other places. Where is that money going to come from in pool? On the other side of the coin, how many pro pool events in the US are profitable now? If players make demands to people that are already only marginally in the black or losing money will these people continue to put on events or will they say good riddance to something that is more headache than profit anyway?
There has to be a living in a sport before there can be a competitor's association or union with any teeth. I believe NASCAR has a driver's group now however in the early days of NASCAR Bill France squashed an early would be driver's union like a bug. Pool as a sport with a tour and respected pro's is in it's infancy at best, it may never exist in the US.
Bottom line, lofty ideas and ideals don't mean a thing when the bills are piling up and there are mouths to feed. Each competitor will do what they have to do to survive. Anybody with fifty thousand in prize money to wave around can bust any player's union in the US in a heartbeat. That is today's reality.
Hu
JB Cases said:
Forget players unions...a good professional organization is needed. One that is stable that is. 
The current UPA/BCA situation should be interesting.
The current UPA/BCA situation should be interesting.
The best escrow agent is BIG NASTY (Chad). He held TONS of cash for players at the DCC... and the winner got paid, believe THAT.
SpiderWebComm said:
I think the proper urban way to say this is: "Belee Dat"
Someone with money and love of pool, and players ready to change... those are the requirements for success in pool.
This industry is greed driven and will remain that way for years to come until everyone decides it is time for a change. Pool can be promoted! If they can take poker... 9 people sitting looking at cards and clicking chips for hours and hours and have people buy into it... They can damn will sell pool.
Change has to come from players... we need something to market.
Change has to come from organizers... someone wanting the best for pool not just the $$ in pool.
Pool sticks for $10,000... Tigers golf clubs $5000... Top pool player $100,000 year... Tiger $$$$$$$$$$.$$. People spend 10's of thousands for a home table and space. Millions spent on pool and so little in prize money. People here post pictures of their home renovation for a pool room.
I wonder what would happen if a top pro went to someones house and played them some sets, friends over and played them? The next time an event was in their area, would they go and watch him? Some how a player has to find a way to create a buzz and build interest in consumers to spend $$. Once that player arrives, ride their coattail like the PGA did Tiger.
It's like the show Matrix... We just have to find '"The One".
This industry is greed driven and will remain that way for years to come until everyone decides it is time for a change. Pool can be promoted! If they can take poker... 9 people sitting looking at cards and clicking chips for hours and hours and have people buy into it... They can damn will sell pool.
Change has to come from players... we need something to market.
Change has to come from organizers... someone wanting the best for pool not just the $$ in pool.
Pool sticks for $10,000... Tigers golf clubs $5000... Top pool player $100,000 year... Tiger $$$$$$$$$$.$$. People spend 10's of thousands for a home table and space. Millions spent on pool and so little in prize money. People here post pictures of their home renovation for a pool room.
I wonder what would happen if a top pro went to someones house and played them some sets, friends over and played them? The next time an event was in their area, would they go and watch him? Some how a player has to find a way to create a buzz and build interest in consumers to spend $$. Once that player arrives, ride their coattail like the PGA did Tiger.
It's like the show Matrix... We just have to find '"The One".