Play tournaments.
Playing Good Players
- Thread starter CGM
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Just approach the better player, ask if s/he would like a sparring partner, make known that you don't play at his/her level, and see what happens. Most people wouldn't mind shooting around with a stranger even without a wager. And if s/he responds with a wager proposal then you evaluate it. Whatever you are comfortable with, nothing wrong with taking the offer or walking away from it.
I think the important thing is to be friendly, don't take things personally, and try to find the better players that can be an acquaintance or friend at the pool hall.
I think the important thing is to be friendly, don't take things personally, and try to find the better players that can be an acquaintance or friend at the pool hall.
It depends.
First off, I don’t believe you can go too far out of your weight class. Try the guy who is just a bit better so you can at least offer some level of competition. To be honest, there is little incentive for a much better player to spar with you for nuthin’. If you do want to play a far better player, offer to pay for time for an hour (don’t over stay your welcome) if he’ll knock them around with you, or maybe buy drinks, lunch, something. After all, you have a lot to gain, so show some appreciation.
I think another good tactic is try and establish some kind of relationship with the better players in your room, rather than approaching them cold. Say hello a few times and then maybe ask them about a particular shot you’re having trouble with, or about a certain technique you could use some help on, and let it go at that. And for goodness gracious sake, if you ask for advice, follow it when given. Nothing will piss a better player off more than trying to help someone -- after they’ve asked for assistance -- only to see them doing their same-ol'-same-ol' a few days later on.
Sometimes (to be honest, rarely), a better player will try and help a lesser player, in the long term, out of the goodness of their heart IF they see that that individual’s interest in the game is deep and sincere. IOW, they take the game seriously, practicing regularly, asking good questions, trying to match up in their weight class, playing leagues and tournaments. I’ve done that two or three times in my life. Sometimes it works out and I’m glad I did it, sometimes not so much.
Lou Figueroa
I agree with this. Johnnyt
Ask those you want to play with what they would like to do. Options:
1) Offer to pay them for lessons
2) Offer to pay their table time and take them to lunch/dinner if they will play with you for a period of time
3) Ask them what is the least they would play for with and without a spot.
One of these should get you in the door, then treat them w/respect and maybe you will built some kind of friendship that would help w/future lessons.
Good luck,
Dave
When you say "better players", how much better do you mean?
If you're truly a C player, you can certainly get beat down and your money taken by a B+, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're learning anything worthwhile. Plenty of people can get to a high ranking but may actually have bad habits you don't want to pick up. If it's just the pressure of playing a better player that you're after, you have to get into tournaments.
But as far as developing your game, rather than worry about whether someone is a B, B+, A+, or whatever, try to pick out people who possess different skills and styles. Be careful not to mistake intense concentration for knowledge/skill. Yes there are going to be highly disciplined shooters who regardless of rank can probably explain details to you very well if you ask, but there are also going to be free-stroking players who freestyle things without even thinking and can't explain how they do what they do but they're also good playing against if it helps you come up with ideas for your own game.
Once you know which players have skills you want to try to pick up, pay attention to who they play. Say the A player you want to play is friends with some B range players, play a few friendly games with those guys first and you'll get introduced to the top level players at some point.
Because it isn't fun for better player to play with a C 'just for fun'. I get annoyed when some of the regular faces who are B- or even C ask me for a 1 on 1 as soon as I'm in the door, especially when I'm there to work on something specific and they're doing it more to see if they can get a few games off me in a set for their own ego, not because they want to test what they've been working on. If anything playing against a C for an hour does damage to my game it will take another hour of actual work on the table to fix.
Try your luck later at night. Once I've worked on the things I want to work on and played a few games against the people I know are good competition (if they're there) when things start to wind down, I'm happy to play scotch doubles with even the C players as long as we can come up with vaguely even teams.
Scotch doubles with better players is probably the most valuable learning tool you'll get if you're still a C and you want to break through as far as skill development and getting used to sharing the table with a better player. But like I and others have said, you also have to play tournaments, because getting your nerves in check for going up against a shortstop is not really that different from getting your nerves in check for going up against somebody only half a notch better than you.
If you're truly a C player, you can certainly get beat down and your money taken by a B+, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're learning anything worthwhile. Plenty of people can get to a high ranking but may actually have bad habits you don't want to pick up. If it's just the pressure of playing a better player that you're after, you have to get into tournaments.
But as far as developing your game, rather than worry about whether someone is a B, B+, A+, or whatever, try to pick out people who possess different skills and styles. Be careful not to mistake intense concentration for knowledge/skill. Yes there are going to be highly disciplined shooters who regardless of rank can probably explain details to you very well if you ask, but there are also going to be free-stroking players who freestyle things without even thinking and can't explain how they do what they do but they're also good playing against if it helps you come up with ideas for your own game.
Once you know which players have skills you want to try to pick up, pay attention to who they play. Say the A player you want to play is friends with some B range players, play a few friendly games with those guys first and you'll get introduced to the top level players at some point.
Because it isn't fun for better player to play with a C 'just for fun'. I get annoyed when some of the regular faces who are B- or even C ask me for a 1 on 1 as soon as I'm in the door, especially when I'm there to work on something specific and they're doing it more to see if they can get a few games off me in a set for their own ego, not because they want to test what they've been working on. If anything playing against a C for an hour does damage to my game it will take another hour of actual work on the table to fix.
Try your luck later at night. Once I've worked on the things I want to work on and played a few games against the people I know are good competition (if they're there) when things start to wind down, I'm happy to play scotch doubles with even the C players as long as we can come up with vaguely even teams.
Scotch doubles with better players is probably the most valuable learning tool you'll get if you're still a C and you want to break through as far as skill development and getting used to sharing the table with a better player. But like I and others have said, you also have to play tournaments, because getting your nerves in check for going up against a shortstop is not really that different from getting your nerves in check for going up against somebody only half a notch better than you.
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Watching players on youtube is not the same as playing them yourself.
In terms of watching shot selection and stroke mechanics, it may be.
In terms of handling being at the table and knowing if you don't play a lock up safety your opponent is going to wriggle out of it, leave you tough, and you might blow the first chance to win you've ever had against him, it is not.
The biggest decider of skill is the experience in the ring against top level players. I have never seen someone with good fundamentals and good shot selection get there without a ton of experience, but I've seen people with a lot of experience get there with mediocre fundamentals.
As for how to play better players, there is no one answer. Tournaments are great, it supports the game too. Leagues should be ok for a C player, you'll get to play some As for sure. And you should be able to get cheap games with better players as well at your convenience. It's not a requirement, but it's instilled in our pool culture, like tipping the pizza delivery guy. Nothing wrong with that. I lost a lot of $20 sets growing up and am totally satisfied with my journey.
In terms of watching shot selection and stroke mechanics, it may be.
In terms of handling being at the table and knowing if you don't play a lock up safety your opponent is going to wriggle out of it, leave you tough, and you might blow the first chance to win you've ever had against him, it is not.
The biggest decider of skill is the experience in the ring against top level players. I have never seen someone with good fundamentals and good shot selection get there without a ton of experience, but I've seen people with a lot of experience get there with mediocre fundamentals.
As for how to play better players, there is no one answer. Tournaments are great, it supports the game too. Leagues should be ok for a C player, you'll get to play some As for sure. And you should be able to get cheap games with better players as well at your convenience. It's not a requirement, but it's instilled in our pool culture, like tipping the pizza delivery guy. Nothing wrong with that. I lost a lot of $20 sets growing up and am totally satisfied with my journey.
As I'm travelling quite a bit, playing pool with strangers is my main way of learning and improving ... I don't know, if I am a A, B, C, D or Z player and I don't really care either ...
Usually I go to a local pool hall (AZB is a great resource for good places btw) and shoot some balls by myself ...
Usually somebody is around playing by themselves, or groups with a person "left over" and I would approach them with a simple "Hey, saw you playing all by yourself also, would you like to shoot some"? and no matter, if they are better or not, most of the time I found someone to play ...
Key from my perspective was so far:
1) show that you are trying to improve (don't just bang balls by yourself, but do some drills, try to set up some straightpool runs, anyhow do something useful)
2) be a nice and humble and most of all honest person
3) don't interupt people doing drills (ask tem when they are taking a break, if they would like to play some once they havefinsihed their work out (don't be offended, if they say "nope, sorry, but I need my drills on Wednesday Night")
4) don't get frustrated, when they shoot your ears off and do not get to cocky, if you manage to run out on them once in a while
5) if you feel like gambling or paying for lessons, do chose your partner wisely
6) join a (competitive, non handicap) league and get involved with the locals
7) take advise (if you think it is crappy advise, you can evaluate that later, first give it a shot ... if two pool players say something opposite, ask for further explanations, usually there are good arguments for either side, but it might help to decide)
8) play tournaments
9) have FUN (weird idea when playing pool, I know ... )
Usually I go to a local pool hall (AZB is a great resource for good places btw) and shoot some balls by myself ...
Usually somebody is around playing by themselves, or groups with a person "left over" and I would approach them with a simple "Hey, saw you playing all by yourself also, would you like to shoot some"? and no matter, if they are better or not, most of the time I found someone to play ...
Key from my perspective was so far:
1) show that you are trying to improve (don't just bang balls by yourself, but do some drills, try to set up some straightpool runs, anyhow do something useful)
2) be a nice and humble and most of all honest person
3) don't interupt people doing drills (ask tem when they are taking a break, if they would like to play some once they havefinsihed their work out (don't be offended, if they say "nope, sorry, but I need my drills on Wednesday Night")
4) don't get frustrated, when they shoot your ears off and do not get to cocky, if you manage to run out on them once in a while
5) if you feel like gambling or paying for lessons, do chose your partner wisely
6) join a (competitive, non handicap) league and get involved with the locals
7) take advise (if you think it is crappy advise, you can evaluate that later, first give it a shot ... if two pool players say something opposite, ask for further explanations, usually there are good arguments for either side, but it might help to decide)
8) play tournaments
9) have FUN (weird idea when playing pool, I know ... )
Absolutely wrong. You don't have to pay someone to make your game better.
Like Philly says, hang around the poolroom. Get to know the other players. You'll find someone your speed, or higher.
And, like Lou says, sometimes the better player will help you out because it's the right thing to do. At one time, or another, someone may have helped them.
Good luck.
you need to catch a better player on a slow day, offer up some beer/nachos for some pointers in a race to 5, (or small amount of cash) after you pay or finish just ask ONE question! "What should I work on" never make the better player feel like you want instructions!!!! Unless you're a paid instructor most don't want a student tagging along! Pool players are very clique-ish he may act like your buddy today until bigger fish join the room, so always respect their boundaries! And before you realize it you will become that guys practice partner. (At least on slow days)
like someone mentioned above find a cheap weekly tourney and donate to the cause! when I was younger I would show up to the tourneys 30min-1hr earlier than anybody and get on a table and when it got closer to the start time the better players always jumped on my table for a quick game or two before moving on. worst case you play one game and another guy wants in and you're kicked off for not winning lol
Tourney tourney tourney!!!!!!!!
like someone mentioned above find a cheap weekly tourney and donate to the cause! when I was younger I would show up to the tourneys 30min-1hr earlier than anybody and get on a table and when it got closer to the start time the better players always jumped on my table for a quick game or two before moving on. worst case you play one game and another guy wants in and you're kicked off for not winning lol
Tourney tourney tourney!!!!!!!!
We're pool players. Ask a great player to play you even for 20 bucks. He may even turn you down the first time, he'll probably take you up in it one day though. What better does he have to do? Travel to a tournament and spend 1500 on expenses and win 800?
Honestly though a lot of really good players will play for crazy cheap, I've always thought, because people played them when they were coming up.
Honestly though a lot of really good players will play for crazy cheap, I've always thought, because people played them when they were coming up.
To provide another perspective on playing people far out of your weight class, I do think you can find some benefit in this assuming you don't just resign yourself to a beating.
I sparred for years with one of our better snooker players and spent a great deal of that time getting clobbered. No handicap, we played for the table time, or rather I just paid the table time. Through all the beatings I learned to focus more, treat my innings like gold and my scoring chances like platinum. Against other players, I might have received 5 or 6 good scoring chances per frame, against him it was 1 maybe 2 opportunities. And I usually had to earn those opportunities through a good pot or safety, he wasn't going to just miss an easy one or play a lazy safety to let me in.
I think by getting used to fewer innings and chances it has an effect that carries over to playing your normal competition. I began feeling more focused and was less likely to make a quick decision. When I was starting out against lower level competition I was used to thinking "if I screw this up, I'll get another chance". But it changed my thought process considerably once I became accustomed to thinking "this is your chance, do something with it".
I sparred for years with one of our better snooker players and spent a great deal of that time getting clobbered. No handicap, we played for the table time, or rather I just paid the table time. Through all the beatings I learned to focus more, treat my innings like gold and my scoring chances like platinum. Against other players, I might have received 5 or 6 good scoring chances per frame, against him it was 1 maybe 2 opportunities. And I usually had to earn those opportunities through a good pot or safety, he wasn't going to just miss an easy one or play a lazy safety to let me in.
I think by getting used to fewer innings and chances it has an effect that carries over to playing your normal competition. I began feeling more focused and was less likely to make a quick decision. When I was starting out against lower level competition I was used to thinking "if I screw this up, I'll get another chance". But it changed my thought process considerably once I became accustomed to thinking "this is your chance, do something with it".
I will echo what others here have said: depends on the individual, whether you will get some funsies action.
Have you considered asking a good player to critique specific things about your game, i.e. Form, Preshot routine, shot selection, safety vs. shoot choice (not all at once!), in exchange for a drink or a meal?
Finally, how about the flip side? Learn how to match up and get YOU paid for improving.
Have you considered asking a good player to critique specific things about your game, i.e. Form, Preshot routine, shot selection, safety vs. shoot choice (not all at once!), in exchange for a drink or a meal?
Finally, how about the flip side? Learn how to match up and get YOU paid for improving.
Too many guys want the free lunch.
They refuse to realize how valuable the info they get from a better player is, how much it accelerates their learning curve, they take it for granted, and then down the road think it was something they did on their own, lol.
It never ceases to amaze me how some players will take what you give them as something owed to them, for some unknown reason. The better player, going out of their way, with no intention of recompense -- out of the goodness of their heart -- helps the lesser player. You should kiss their toes.
Lou Figueroa
buy em a
fookin' beer
at least
Absolutely wrong. You don't have to pay someone to make your game better.
Like Philly says, hang around the poolroom. Get to know the other players. You'll find someone your speed, or higher.
And, like Lou says, sometimes the better player will help you out because it's the right thing to do. At one time, or another, someone may have helped them.
Good luck.
I can only think of one guy that ever tried to help me, for like half an hour. Other than that I've had to pay -- one way or the other -- for intel. If someone is willing to help you up the mountain that is gold. Don't be a putz, honor that.
Lou Figueroa
Honor my ass! A fool and his money are soon parted.
I think you're overstating your losses.
lol.
Tramp, I get what you're saying but personally I think there is nothing worse than an individual, pool player or otherwise, that fails to appreciate and acknowledge being helped out.
For better or worse, you find that in all walks of life. I've certainly encountered it in professional and personal circumstances... but for some reason, it's different when it's pool. Perhaps because you expect it to be grounded so much more in reality, maybe not.
Lou Figueroa
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