... Bob Jewett is incorrect also. I use several systems all the time for postion play or breaking out clusters, so whether it is a factor in your game or not, it is one in mine. ..
What I had tried to say was that at pool, the use of the two systems mentioned, the plus-2 and the corner-5, when playing off an object ball is relatively rare.
From your post, it seems you meant that you use other systems. Of course, there are lots of diamond systems. I have described several in my columns that are very useful for pool, and some of them involve no rail contacts at all. But they are not the corner-5 or the plus-2.
Which diamond systems do you find useful for pool?
i think systems are great and definitely useful, when we are talking about systems for banking, kicking, etc. I really dont think there are "systems" per se when it comes to position play though.
When I mention position play through the use of diamond systems, there are paths in playing position that are recognizable from the knowledge of knowing the diamond system. I have attached a layout of a table for example. Seeing the balls tied up on the 8,9, I have to figure out where to get on the 7 ball in order to break up these troubled balls. Knowledge of the diamond system will give me a quick reference point for the breakout. Now, practice and knowing what english to apply benefit me in this shot, but use of the diamond system, also helped me find a route faster than not knowing one.
Granted that practice can provide you with the same results, but knowledge of the system will give you that reference point quicker for the in-experienced player.
In this one, you can either take the 6 to 2 system and then go 1/2 diamond to the right to come up 1 diamond short, or you can use the system where you count the diamonds up to the cue ball (5 diamonds) go to 5 on the short rail, then take a parallel line. Same spot comes up. Verified by two systems.
I'm a intermediate player and i have always played position by "feel".. I wanted to know if there is some sort of systematic way to know where your cue ball is going. I heard of buddy halls clock system but a friend told me it's very very basic. Can anyone shine some sort of light on this subject. any recommendations are welcome whether it's a book, video, or personal knowlwedge. I've just learned the plus 5 system for kicking and it works great for two rails and my friend said you can use it for playing positon as well but i don't understand what he means?
I use the diamonds on certain key shots. This is an example of the most important basic 2rail/3 rail route to memorize. What I like about using the diamonds is it gives me something positive and specific to aim at.
What you want to do is find the right stroke on this shot to bring the cueball into the first diamond past the side. Once you are confident you can hit the diamond past the side time after time, eventually you will play this reliable angle a lot to get around the table.
Once you master this route, change the spin to widen the angle, and take it to the next diamond and the next. Hit it harder to get 4 rail shape, or softer for 2 rail. Suddenly those traveling tables won't look so difficult anymore, and you will be able to very accurately judge the path of the cueball to avoid blockers, and you will have enough confidence in your ability to leave yourself this simple angle when playing shape.
I use the diamonds on certain key shots. This is an example of the most important basic 2rail/3 rail route to memorize. What I like about using the diamonds is it gives me something positive and specific to aim at.
What you want to do is find the right stroke on this shot to bring the cueball into the first diamond past the side. Once you are confident you can hit the diamond past the side time after time, eventually you will play this reliable angle a lot to get around the table.
Once you master this route, change the spin to widen the angle, and take it to the next diamond and the next. Hit it harder to get 4 rail shape, or softer for 2 rail. Suddenly those traveling tables won't look so difficult anymore, and you will be able to very accurately judge the path of the cueball to avoid blockers, and you will have enough confidence in your ability to leave yourself this simple angle when playing shape.
Good example, now you show that cue ball shortening up off the final rail there a little bit. I would look at this as the contact point on the 1 ball being on 2 1/4 diamonds and cue ball being on 3 1/2. subtracting the two, I would say that the cue ball would probably come off at 1 1/4 after contact with the 1 rather than 1 3/4. But the concept is what I was trying to get across. Thank you for your input.
When I mention position play through the use of diamond systems, there are paths in playing position that are recognizable from the knowledge of knowing the diamond system. I have attached a layout of a table for example. Seeing the balls tied up on the 8,9, I have to figure out where to get on the 7 ball in order to break up these troubled balls. Knowledge of the diamond system will give me a quick reference point for the breakout. Now, practice and knowing what english to apply benefit me in this shot, but use of the diamond system, also helped me find a route faster than not knowing one.
Granted that practice can provide you with the same results, but knowledge of the system will give you that reference point quicker for the in-experienced player.
In this one, you can either take the 6 to 2 system and then go 1/2 diamond to the right to come up 1 diamond short, or you can use the system where you count the diamonds up to the cue ball (5 diamonds) go to 5 on the short rail, then take a parallel line. Same spot comes up. Verified by two systems.
The problem is we don't always encounter the same ball patterns. Of course there're the more standard ones to remember but people I come across tend to go by feel more than memorising all the diamonds. Lately I also tried to hound on the laws of pattern play, even went into shrinking the table mirrors etc but apart from the more standard 'systems' most of the time I still go by instinct.
Not sure what you are insinuating. I am not a liar. I would appreciate that you not accused me of being one on a public forum. If you are interested, you can check the BCA website to verify. Or ask Randy G, I attended his instructor school.
Negative rep for openly calling me a liar without making an effort to verify.
And unfortunately, I feel the need to add you to my ignore list, as you resorted to an ad hominem attack for no reason. People are allowed to have differences of opinions, but there is no need to attack someone's veracity without provocation. In my personal opinion, your etiquette needs evaluation.
-td <-- no need to reply, as the "ignore" function does actually work...
Not sure what you are insinuating. I am not a liar. I would appreciate that you not accused me of being one on a public forum. If you are interested, you can check the BCA website to verify. Or ask Randy G, I attended his instructor school.
Negative rep for openly calling me a liar without taking the effort to look.
1). I do not want to get into an argument with you.
2). I know your name is Thomas, that is all. Oh, and you invited me to Texas, big state.
3) I assumed, possibly that your last name starts with a "D" since that is part of your screen name.
4). I looked on the BCA web site and there is not a Thomas D in Texas in the Active BCA Instructors before I wrote my post.
I should give you negative rep for not asking me how I arrived at that before giving me negative rep.
1). I do not want to get into an argument with you.
2). I know your name is Thomas, that is all. Oh, and you invited me to Texas, big state.
3) I assumed, possibly that your last name starts with a "D" since that is part of your screen name.
4). I looked on the BCA web site and there is not a Thomas D in Texas in the Active BCA Instructors before I wrote my post.
I should give you negative rep for not asking me how I arrived at that before giving me negative rep.
You have 38 posts over the course of 2 years. You now have negative rep - and I admit I gave you some for calling me a liar. But I believe you deserved it because it was not necessary to insult me in order to voice your opinion. If you doubted me, all you had to do was ask me, I'm not trying to hide anything, and I have no reason to.
My point is that I don't see why you felt it necessary to accuse my of being a liar - even if you did some minimal research. Wouldn't your post have the same effect without the ad hominem attack? Couldn't you state your position without also denegrating others?
We are all entitled to our opinions, and although we may disagree, there is no need to resort to personal attacks. That's why they are called opinions.
I've met many people on this board, treated them and been treated to their hospitality. I am an educated, articulate, and gainfully employed member of society - that also loves to play pool. I don't ask that you change your attitude or opinions, as that is what makes this board the exceptional resource it is today. But I do ask that you refrain from taking affirmative steps to disparage me - or any other member of this board - as it is completely unnecessary in order to get your point across.
-td <- eh, I couldn't get the ignore to work right, doh.
NB: For the record, it appears that your research was incomplete, as I just confirmed that I am indeed listed on the BCA website.
I use the diamonds on certain key shots. This is an example of the most important basic 2rail/3 rail route to memorize. What I like about using the diamonds is it gives me something positive and specific to aim at.
What you want to do is find the right stroke on this shot to bring the cueball into the first diamond past the side. Once you are confident you can hit the diamond past the side time after time, eventually you will play this reliable angle a lot to get around the table.
Once you master this route, change the spin to widen the angle, and take it to the next diamond and the next. Hit it harder to get 4 rail shape, or softer for 2 rail. Suddenly those traveling tables won't look so difficult anymore, and you will be able to very accurately judge the path of the cueball to avoid blockers, and you will have enough confidence in your ability to leave yourself this simple angle when playing shape.
This shot is a more or less standard application of the "plus-2" system. Do you use that system at all for the calculation or is it mostly memorization of this particular path?
This shot is a more or less standard application of the "plus-2" system. Do you use that system at all for the calculation or is it mostly memorization of this particular path?
It is also Shot #4 from Hennings Pro Book. These patterns come up ALL the time, learn them (this not directed at you Bob). Hennings shot passes through center-table, but can be adjusted of course. When I adjust this shot I do think of the knowledge gained through practicing the Plus-2 system.
Again, I feel that either Henning or 99 Critical Shots by Martin cover the vast majority of these common shots. In general I have not thought these routes to be 'diamond systems', which I use for kicking (System 5, plus-2, etc.) but simply 'routes' or 'paths'.
What I had tried to say was that at pool, the use of the two systems mentioned, the plus-2 and the corner-5, when playing off an object ball is relatively rare.
From your post, it seems you meant that you use other systems. Of course, there are lots of diamond systems. I have described several in my columns that are very useful for pool, and some of them involve no rail contacts at all. But they are not the corner-5 or the plus-2.
Which diamond systems do you find useful for pool?
