Lmfao!! Nailed it! Lol!
Playing Safe - The Intent is the Factor - APA
- Thread starter BarTableMan
- Start date
Lmfao!! Nailed it! Lol!
I know what you are saying and you are wrong. If you are not shooting with the intent to make a ball then it is a defensive shoot. There is no gray area here. If you are not on offense, which means you are trying to make a ball and continue your turn at the table, then you are on defense and it is marked. Kicking, banking, masse and jump shots are not relevant to anything.
I will ignore your other stupid comment just like I would ignore you calling safe every shot and determine it myself.
If you don't like the rules, don't ply in the league.
Yes, as I am sure your league which isn't even equivalent to a pimple on the APA's ass is made up of the cream of the crop who's worse player can beat any APA player at anytime. All who have professional level knowledge of your rules equal to their professional level skill at the table.
Clown.
Is there a rule in the APA manual about beating topics to death? Jeez, play to win and play your best and quit circumventing the real objectives and rules to lower handicaps. That's the BS that everybody hates about leagues. Put more effort into practicing the safe to master the shot than whining about scorekeeping and cry baby crap. And before you say it, yes i have played league 10 years ago and vowed id never do it again. Much to my dismay, i tried again last year-- sure the faces change, but the people are all the same.
Its a fun social event, or it's supposed to be, but Dbags sweating handicaps and trying to one up the system by sandbagging ruin it. Its every league in every city. Why try to fix something broken that you have no control over. You have control over your game and thats where your focus must lie.
Its a fun social event, or it's supposed to be, but Dbags sweating handicaps and trying to one up the system by sandbagging ruin it. Its every league in every city. Why try to fix something broken that you have no control over. You have control over your game and thats where your focus must lie.
So worried about rule 14-3.1.3/7θ. What is the rule about manipulating scorecards to keep handicaps lower?
What is the rule about telling your teammate to lose? If you say you don't, then youre a liar. Every team does it, every captain advocates it. Thats why teams have two teams in the same league. One for winning, and one for losing and controlling handicaps.
Im done now. Bring on the heat as Im sure all the sandbagging liars are at the edges of their seats...
On my way to APA league, i stop by White Castle. Every time i fart around the table, in case I miss of course, is that a safety? I consider that playing defense of some sort. My intention to fart was premeditated so it most definitely should be a safety. But wait, if the scorekeeper doesnt smell it, is it still a safety or do I have to fart in a jar and send it to the League Operator too? If i sit on the corner pocket and fart into the pocket, does the cloud of stink somehow deter my opponents object ball from going into that pocket? How do you score that one?! My goodness so many rules... How can one possibly be expected to cheat, er, manipulate the scoresheet to reflect strategic defensive premeditations.
All these ideas are making me reconsider joining the APA.
All these ideas are making me reconsider joining the APA.
Nope, in fact they encourage that sort of thing
Lets beat the topic of beating topic to death to death next
A little APA compliance never hurt anyone :grin::grin:
Why would you ever consider a fart to be safe? It's totally offensive
Hey Skippy, you're the one downplaying the players in your league by remarking that a kick safety is beyond their ability to make, and shouldn't be considered.
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If I call safe then there is no ambiguity for you to make your own determination (something you said) You must mark them as it is the rules. You wouldn't want to break the rules now would you?
There is something that really needs to be addressed by the APA. The league has a lot of goodness that it brings many people into the realms of pool playing that otherwise wouldn't play. The score keeping is of such a way that handicaps are not fair. The night out is supposed to be "fun night out". This is true except for the scorekeeper which is a real pain. It requires constant watching to determine accurate defenses.
This thread is discussing the evaluation of shots but think about the percentage of shots that are not observed closely enough to determine its intent. I will be willing to bet less than 50% of all the shots made in the APA are not closely watched by a scorekeeper, and that should be O.K. because it IS supposed to be fun. Anyhow, until they modify the scorekeeping, skill levels will always be out of whack. They have numerous safety nets in place to try to overcome their handicap weakness with observers, applied scores, and formulas that don't count every match. Their business is doing well and as long as it does well they don't have incentive to change.
Ultimately how each team keeps score is their own business as long as they keep it fair for both players EVERY night played. If this is not the case its creating unfairness and is handicap manipulation.
This thread is discussing the evaluation of shots but think about the percentage of shots that are not observed closely enough to determine its intent. I will be willing to bet less than 50% of all the shots made in the APA are not closely watched by a scorekeeper, and that should be O.K. because it IS supposed to be fun. Anyhow, until they modify the scorekeeping, skill levels will always be out of whack. They have numerous safety nets in place to try to overcome their handicap weakness with observers, applied scores, and formulas that don't count every match. Their business is doing well and as long as it does well they don't have incentive to change.
Ultimately how each team keeps score is their own business as long as they keep it fair for both players EVERY night played. If this is not the case its creating unfairness and is handicap manipulation.
A kick is only a safety if the player can see the ball they are kicking or can see another ball of their suit and they still decide to kick at the ball...
If they are forced to kick because they can see none of their balls or they are on the 8ball and can't see it, it is never a safety as getting a good hit in many instances is the best you can hope for... Anything else would make it purely subjective to the score keeper... Intent is to hit the ball in that case... Hope is to make it or get safe......
Of course this is based on how Accu-stats actually scores matches and the rules for that are designed to remove the score keepers opinion in as many cases as humanly possible.. 2 way shots being one of the few where the scorekeeper has to decide.. Safe or Miss.....
If they are forced to kick because they can see none of their balls or they are on the 8ball and can't see it, it is never a safety as getting a good hit in many instances is the best you can hope for... Anything else would make it purely subjective to the score keeper... Intent is to hit the ball in that case... Hope is to make it or get safe......
Of course this is based on how Accu-stats actually scores matches and the rules for that are designed to remove the score keepers opinion in as many cases as humanly possible.. 2 way shots being one of the few where the scorekeeper has to decide.. Safe or Miss.....
What are you talking about? I have not downplayed anyone's ability to make a kick safety. Maybe you are confused and think I am against defensive shots. I am not and think that is one thing players need to learn and practice to help move them to the next level.
Kick safeties can be very hard, as a higher level player I know this. So if a low level player does it and succeeds that is awesome, but still a defensive shot. If a high level player tries it and fails, it was a great try, but still a defensive shot.
Not when I am dealing with an ass with poor sportsmanship.
But ultimately you are probably right. I will mark them as it goes against you (increases your perceived skill level) and then I will just make note on the sheet how big of an ass and poor of a sportsman you are.
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Well the APA does not use Accu-Stats and you are wrong in what you say being the APA rule does not stipulate that if the shoot is really hard then it doesn't count as defensive. You would actually be wrong by any standards regardless if a league keeps track of them or not. If you don't agree with that then tell me, while you are at the table, regardless of rules, when are you on Offense and when are you on Defense? I will tell you that it means offense is when you are trying to remain at the table and defense is when you are trying to get back to the table by leaving it without giving the opponent the upper hand (easy run out or BIH).
Seriously, how can you guys be arguing what the rule says concerning APA defensive shots when it is so clear in the rules and their training video? IF YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO MAKE A BALL THEN YOU ARE SHOOTING A DEFENSIVE SHOT. Seriously, how much more clear can that statement be?
It does matter if you are on the 8 ball and I leave the cue ball surround by my balls 3 levels deep and stacked 8 high against the rail (yes extreme exaggeration of an unrealistic scenario). If you shoot at the 8 ball with the intent of only getting a good hit to avoid giving me ball in hand, then your INTENT was not to make the ball and thus by the APA definition you have committed a defensive shot and it should be marked. If you just pick up the cue ball and hand it to me because you are scared it may cost you the game, then again you have committed a "defensive shot". Now if you call a pocket and actually put in an attempt to make it there by determining the line and hitting it hard enough to do so then it shows your INTENT was to make the ball and it is not marked as a defensive shoot.
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In APA you should have to call everything.
They have people with $4,000 custom cues who can't run three balls and have a $400 break cue and a pocket chalk-holder costing $40 and a bridge that may cost $100. To top that off some of them have "pocket markers" that may cost $100.
If you have to have all that crap to play at an APA Level 2 or 3, you should have to call everything and put that damn "marker" on a pocket every time you shoot. Hell, you need to show that thing off.
Maybe I'll come up with a $38 "safety" marker of some type (something like a big question mark "?") that they can sit on the table rail when they don't know what the hell to do and just jab at the ball.
Anybody want to buy some before they get real popular and the price sky rockets?
They have people with $4,000 custom cues who can't run three balls and have a $400 break cue and a pocket chalk-holder costing $40 and a bridge that may cost $100. To top that off some of them have "pocket markers" that may cost $100.
If you have to have all that crap to play at an APA Level 2 or 3, you should have to call everything and put that damn "marker" on a pocket every time you shoot. Hell, you need to show that thing off.
Maybe I'll come up with a $38 "safety" marker of some type (something like a big question mark "?") that they can sit on the table rail when they don't know what the hell to do and just jab at the ball.
Anybody want to buy some before they get real popular and the price sky rockets?
Banks
Banned
Blah blah blah.