Playing safe

V

virgayL

Registered
Hey,

so here's the deal:
I'm playing vs. a mate at our club - we've got this "score system". So if you challenge someone and you win, you win some points (no real deal behind that - I think the winner of this score board doesn't get anything, but nevertheless ^^).

So I challenged him - we were playing 10 ball, race to 5. And I gotta say, I didn't play very well. So I was trailing 4:1 pretty soon ... now here's the deal: my turn to break, I break and it's a bad one so I've got 2 clusters of balls at the racking area. My mate's shooting and he fouls. Since I'm trailing behind 3 games and I know that it is very unlikely that I run out this setup I tie him up at the clusters. He's got his second foul now. I play another safety and he's got 3 fouls - game over. 4:2. In the next two games he messes up 2 relatively easy shots on the 9 ball and I run out: 4:4 (I have to mention that in the game where I got my third point [4:3] I also tried to put him on the 3-fouls, but he got out of it).
Now last game: I break - a decent one - but I'm left with no shot at the next ball so I play a not so easy safety. He fouls, I play another nifty safety, he fouls, I play another one - he fouls. I win the game. Trailing 4:1, I got him with 4:5.

Now: after the game the guy tells me that if I challenge him again, he is going to decline it because in his eyes it is not playing if you put your opponent on the 3 fouls.
So I am kind of bumped - what the hell?

I really can't understand why he would be pissed at me because of this ... here are my reasons for that:

* Safety play is part of the game.
* it was a challenge match, not just a friendly game (and even if it really isn't that important but there is a reason for them - I mean: I don't care if I win or lose - I play my best game and never complained about anything - it's not like those were some lucky rolls or anything like that)
* if I hadn't been trailing 4:1 I wouldn't have tried to get him on the 3 foul rule - even if I see no problem when someone tries to do so.
* of course I want to win - why wouldn't I? And since I don't see anything illegal by playing safeties I think I deserve the win - or do I?
* the safeties haven't been that hard to get out of - mostly simple one cushion escapes
* he had so much opportunities to beat me - I wouldn't blame the other guy when I missed easy shots like he did ...


Should I feel guilty when playing safe?
*
 
Like you said safety is part of the game. Now if you had some shots when you did those safeties then i would feel a little guilty but if you did them because that was the BEST option to win then go for it. I never really played safety before and when I did one of first safeties I was amazed at how good it made me feel that I was able to make this person miss their shot! Wow what a feeling!

So if you did it just to get the 3 foul's then sure feel a little guilty, if you did it because it was your best option then NO guilt.

Rich
 
I like getting beat because the guy played better defense than if they bang the hell out of the balls and win through dumb luck! But a lot of bar-type players see safety play as "dirty pool"...
 
"R-U-Kidding?"

virgayL said:
Hey,

so here's the deal:
I'm playing vs. a mate at our club - we've got this "score system". So if you challenge someone and you win, you win some points (no real deal behind that - I think the winner of this score board doesn't get anything, but nevertheless ^^).

So I challenged him - we were playing 10 ball, race to 5. And I gotta say, I didn't play very well. So I was trailing 4:1 pretty soon ... now here's the deal: my turn to break, I break and it's a bad one so I've got 2 clusters of balls at the racking area. My mate's shooting and he fouls. Since I'm trailing behind 3 games and I know that it is very unlikely that I run out this setup I tie him up at the clusters. He's got his second foul now. I play another safety and he's got 3 fouls - game over. 4:2. In the next two games he messes up 2 relatively easy shots on the 9 ball and I run out: 4:4 (I have to mention that in the game where I got my third point [4:3] I also tried to put him on the 3-fouls, but he got out of it).
Now last game: I break - a decent one - but I'm left with no shot at the next ball so I play a not so easy safety. He fouls, I play another nifty safety, he fouls, I play another one - he fouls. I win the game. Trailing 4:1, I got him with 4:5.

Now: after the game the guy tells me that if I challenge him again, he is going to decline it because in his eyes it is not playing if you put your opponent on the 3 fouls.
So I am kind of bumped - what the hell?

I really can't understand why he would be pissed at me because of this ... here are my reasons for that:

* Safety play is part of the game.
* it was a challenge match, not just a friendly game (and even if it really isn't that important but there is a reason for them - I mean: I don't care if I win or lose - I play my best game and never complained about anything - it's not like those were some lucky rolls or anything like that)
* if I hadn't been trailing 4:1 I wouldn't have tried to get him on the 3 foul rule - even if I see no problem when someone tries to do so.
* of course I want to win - why wouldn't I? And since I don't see anything illegal by playing safeties I think I deserve the win - or do I?
* the safeties haven't been that hard to get out of - mostly simple one cushion escapes
* he had so much opportunities to beat me - I wouldn't blame the other guy when I missed easy shots like he did ...


Should I feel guilty when playing safe?
*
Click to expand...

Congratulations on what sounds like a "GREAT WIN," and what looks to be, a new way for you to view World Class Pool!!!

I tell anybody that will listen, "you can have any of the great football teams from the past, Montana and the 49'ers vs. The Tampa Bay Bucks from the late 70's, only catch, you get no defense with the 49'ers and I get both offense and defense. Who you figure is going to have possession of the ball longer and win that bet?

Safeties, yeah, 3 foul is the ultimate way to win!
In 2004 at the DCC, Putnum beats Lee Van Corteza with a 3 foul. How you think Corteza looked after that game? His concentration was W-A-Y different in the next game, it effects even the worlds best, being 3-fouled by your opponent!!!:cool:
 
You played well within the rules set out before the game.

Good safety play is sometimes the right shot.

It sounds like sour grapes.
 
At weaker levels of play, 3 fouls is probably an unbalanced rule. It is quite often easier to 3 foul a player that can't kick well than to run out. It is also very frustrating for the player on the receiving end.

In a game that is just for fun, I would say its probably not the most constructive style of play, but if winning at all costs is your style then there is nothing technically wrong about it.

If there is something on the line, then taking advantage of your opponent's weakness is absolutely the right thing to do, but don't get too used to that style of play. Good players will return your safeties probably 1/3 of the time.
 
I won a league game the other night because I safetied twice at the end of the game. If I hadn't have played it that way, I probably would have lost.
That bought me 2 more shots that I needed.

Guilty? Not against a team that we gave up 24 handicap points to.
Going into a match with a 24 point deficit, you have to do what you have to do. They get a few lucky rolls and its up to you to make them unlucky.

When someone does a good safety on me, I don't get all Peed off. I consider it an extra challenge to get out of it.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like a sore loser to me. I have a high appreciation for anyone that can 3 foul me because it takes way more cue ball control to be able to 3 foul me than it does to run a rack.

One of my favorite people to play happens to also be one of the least likely to run a rack among the people I play. The reason why I like playing him is because while he may not run a rack very often he will also leave me kicking for 4-6 racks at a time. Among the high rack runners I play I may get a shot during a rack, but with him he controls the table so well that it may be several racks before I get a real shot.

Tell that guy to suck it and learn to kick......it will help him more than hurt him.
 
Masayoshi said:
In a game that is just for fun, I would say its probably not the most constructive style of play, but if winning at all costs is your style then there is nothing technically wrong about it.

If there is something on the line, then taking advantage of your opponent's weakness is absolutely the right thing to do, but don't get too used to that style of play. Good players will return your safeties probably 1/3 of the time.
Click to expand...
As I said, there is no real deal behind these challenge matches, except for seeing that you managed to achieve something - but they are there for a reason and beforehand he had a choice (we both wanted a challenge match).
If it wasn't for the challenge match I wouldn't have tried to 3-foul him - in those matches I play as if I was playing league.
And even if I wouldn't have been 4:1 down I hadn't played safe.
It was just the combination of these two conditions that made the decision for me.

@RichLec:
Having BiH after a foul, of course I would have made a few balls - but as I'm not yet able to run out some racks and considering some clusters of balls. I have to think a few shots ahead: so I made the choice I thought was best for me.
And of course I didn't 3-foul him because I like to piss someone of or just to 3-foul him - in fact I don't really think about my opponents when I'm playing ... I rather see myself run a table and pot some balls. Just wasn't there for me.

And to show that I really don't care about the whole "rolls" thingy and losing such challenges - beforehand I played a match vs. a pretty tough guy, 9 ball. I played really good (considering that he plays better than me) and we got on the hill. In the last rack he's on the table and just whacks at the balls (6, 7, 8 and 9 on the table) after positional error. He flukes one in - still hasn't got position. Whacks at them again, flukes one in and got position on the 8 and wins :D
What next? Well, shake hands and no hard feelings, laughing about those flukes ;) I knew what I was going in to and 9 ball requires some luck - so what?
 
ya same deal, i was called a chicken shit for playing a decent safety in league 9. broke made the one and sat the cue and 2 ball against the rail with the 4 in between. 6 a little further down. i pushed the 4 into the 2 and the 2 up next to the 6. this is apa and no push unfortunately. gave up bih for my safety. it gave me the edge at the end from being 14 balls down.
 
Three-fouls-loss=loss of game is part of the rules, though it's not a rule everyone agrees with. Were you playing WPA rules? Or with modified WPA rules as on Tony Robles tour? Doesn't really matter, I guess. As had been said, safety play is part and parcel of any and every pool game and if my opponent disagrees we won't play anymore. You have a right to play within the rules of the game so don't feel guilty about it.
 
If I have a chance to get a guy on three safeties I go for it. Even if you don't make it it is a great way to get the guy off of his game.

Now on the other hand, when someone tries to do it to me I get totally po'd. If I'm out on three it always brings the match to a different level. It now becomes "personal" to me. This makes me focus much more. If he fails, it gives me a quick boost of confidence because I have that "What, you think your playing with the kids!" feeling. Again, gets me to focus.

This is kind of like the player for the other team that you hate because he plays dirty. Then he is traded to your team and you realize that he really wasn't dirty...he just played hard.

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top