Playing the ghost?

Huckster has posted a few times that he put Luat in the box against the 9ball ghost on the barbox giving up 10 games going to 20 and Luat did NOT get BIH, he had to shoot from where they ended up after the break. Luat won that game.

Granted it is a bar box, but that game should give you an idea as to how strong touring pros are against the ghost. The 10ball ghost to a pro is a game they will likely get 10 ahead faster than you can watch an episode of Lost.
 
you guys are waaayyy overrating players speed.

For once I actually agree with av84fun.... SSOOOOMMEEE few pros might be in stroke and be able to beat the eleven and twelve ball ghost, but if you're talking about consistently every time they step to the table, you're talking lucky to beat the ten ball ghost consistently...

Once you get past nineball and into ten ball and above, the clusters start showing up and it gets progressively more difficult to beat the ghost.

Everytime I see on here people stating that A players can do this and that etc. I have to laugh because they just don't consistentyl play that good. The average for the pros in nineball is at the most like 30% break and runs and the break is controllable. Top nineballers can consistently beat the nineball ghost, but anything higher than that and it becomes very difficult to consistently beat even for the better players.

Jaden
 
Black-Balled said:
Make it easdy on yourself...go to 'search, advanced search/ then search ghost in titles only, limiting search to main forum.
I get "Showing results 1 to 25 of 93 " like that....

Keep It Simple, Stupid (K.I.S.S.)!
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Thanks! That will definitely help, becuse when i did my intial search...everything under the sun came up. Appreciate it!
 
I didn't know that the ratings would kick up such a fuss.

Just to be certain, everyone is talking about BIH after the break ghost.
Obviously not doing this makes it much more diffucult.
 
Jaden said:
For once I actually agree with av84fun.... SSOOOOMMEEE few pros might be in stroke and be able to beat the eleven and twelve ball ghost, but if you're talking about consistently every time they step to the table, you're talking lucky to beat the ten ball ghost consistently...

Once you get past nineball and into ten ball and above, the clusters start showing up and it gets progressively more difficult to beat the ghost.

Everytime I see on here people stating that A players can do this and that etc. I have to laugh because they just don't consistentyl play that good. The average for the pros in nineball is at the most like 30% break and runs and the break is controllable. Top nineballers can consistently beat the nineball ghost, but anything higher than that and it becomes very difficult to consistently beat even for the better players.

Jaden
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Jaden were are talking about the Ghost game where you get BIH after the break. You would really put the 10 or 11ball ghost up against ANY touring pro on a regular table?
 
uwate said:
the table makes a huge difference in playing the ghost. There are some triple tough Diamond tables that pro players cannot beat. Drew's ratings I think are pretty good guesstimates for 4.5 inch pockets. With 5 inch pockets I think you have to move it up a ball.

av84fun...sorry but I disagree, you put the ghost in the box against a pro player and you are gonna see that pro player stick it casper in a major way playing the 10ball ghost. I have seen many, many shortstops beat the 10 and 11 ball ghost. A touring pro is stealing on a regular table against the 10 and 11 ball ghost.
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my friend who is NOT a touring pro has been playing the 10 ball ghost giving it 3 on the wire to 9 and beating it sometimes on my Diamond at home, 3 on the wire to 9 is big, he has to win almost 2 games for everyone he loses playing that game,

On a Diamond pro's are stealing playing that game, the 12,13 ball ghost is the benhmark for a pro on a Diamond, with new cloth add a ball.


its hard to say how many balls defines how someone plays unless the tables are standrdized, on a Ernesto table@ Hollywood Billiards no body is gonna beat the 13 ball ghost-wit hthe exception of a few guys-archer-busta-ralf-SVB-Buddy-Efren and perhaps a few more, my friend can beat it sometimes on a diamond-35%-40% and he might beat it 20% on a Ernesto table.
 
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I just backed the 10 ball ghost against a B+ player and he almost got there. It is stealing for a pro to play the nine ball ghost. Here is a quick example:

On the toughest table in the pool room (a triple shimmed Brunswick) the bet was $1500 playing to 6 ahead. The player tried to up the bet but no one would. He tried to up it again when he was down 2. At four down, he finally convinced enough people in the room to put up the other $1500 and double the bet. He proceeded to win the next 10 games to end the set.

Anyone who thinks a pro is not the favorite to beat the 9 ball ghost can bet it up anytime I am at a tournament. If you were to give a game or two on the wire I might even let them play the 10 ball ghost:D
 
Jaden said:
... The average for the pros in nineball is at the most like 30% break and runs and the break is controllable. ...Jaden
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I have seen that stat before and IIRC, is came from tourney matches- the only exhaustive source of info on the topic- you put a top player in the box for 2, 4, 10 hrs on a table, I bet the % goes up like heat!
 
uwate said:
Jaden were are talking about the Ghost game where you get BIH after the break. You would really put the 10 or 11ball ghost up against ANY touring pro on a regular table?
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I thought my ratings were pretty accurate. I can honestly say though that I don't have the slightest clue as to what the difference between a super pro and an average pro is. But I do know that I'd never bet on the 10-ball ghost against these guys. Just like I'd never bet against an A player running out 8 balls.
 
No I wouldn't for a reason that I already stated...

uwate said:
Jaden were are talking about the Ghost game where you get BIH after the break. You would really put the 10 or 11ball ghost up against ANY touring pro on a regular table?
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A top touring pro can probably beat the ten or eleven ball ghost. Hell, I've been known to beat it and good sometimes on tougher than a standard cut table. What I'm saying is that to say that they will consistently beat them or even beat the ten ball and higher ghost the majority of the time is over rating their speed.

A pro player might beat the eleven or twelve ball ghost three straight sets and then I'm out my money because I don't have the cash to wait for them to lose 3-4 sets to make my money. It just depends on the day.

You can't watch some of these full unedited recorded matches or the live matches that aren't edited to only show case perfect play and think that these pros can consistently beat the ghost all of those times.

A HUGE part of rotation bsaed games is safety play and playing the ghost just doesn't allow for that, so IMO it really isn't a great marker of true skill.

And while I wouldn't put my money against a pro to beat the ten or even twelve ball ghost, it's not because I don't know that they aren't capable of beating it all the time, It's because I know that they are capable of beating it oon frequently enough occassion for it to be a bad bet.

That is a whole different ball of wax than stating that they will consistently beat it though.


Jaden

I do know a pro that I saw totally trounce on a guy by offering him the orange crush but that he got the breaks and BIH after the break, in NINE BALL, I don't think that he would try the same thing though in ten ball or higher. I know that I probably wouldn't.
Let's put it this way, at that level of play you better be getting a spot in a match up that you can beat the ghost or your CB control better be superb and your ability to know what safeties to play better be phenomenal.
 
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Fatboy said:
my friend who is NOT a touring pro has been playing the 10 ball ghost giving it 3 on the wire to 9 and beating it sometimes on my Diamond at home, 3 on the wire to 9 is big, he has to win almost 2 games for everyone he loses playing that game,
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Beating it sometimes and winning consistently are two different things my friend.

I will stack it up with anyone who wants to give me 3 on the wire against the 10 Ball Ghost....race to 50...9 ft....4.5 straight cut pockets.

EDIT: Of course, I meant race to 9 or the same proportion in a race to 50 or 16.66 racks...I'll settle for 16 though!

(-:

(-:

Jim
 
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try to play god! break don't take ball in hand, and when you miss it's 1 nothing god. when you can beat that consistantly then your ready for the road.
 
Jaden,

All the top players torture the ghost. 10-ball and 11-ball makes a difference, but not enough for them to get or stay loser at the game. Not sure what good players you are in touch with in SoCal, but you might want to check with them whether they would rather play in a tournament, match up with another player their speed, or play the 10/11 ball ghost. Oscar, Ernesto, Max, Billy...I can't imagine anyone turning down guaranteed action with the ghost in that scenario.
 
h

If i were to play the 9ball ghost with no ball in hand, and if i dont make a ball on the break i automatically lose... What kind of odds can i get??
 
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