Playing the player

[Handsumm]

Alright, recently I have been contemplating this over and over. If I am playing a weaker person, let's say bar box 8-ball or something, and I don't feel I have a definite runout possibility, I will play safe and hope that they break up the trouble clusters and such.

Now, if I am playing a much stronger person the same game, I will feel that keeping them in the seat is more important, and I will tend not to play as many safeties as with the less-experienced player. I will sometimes go for a tough runout, and end up missing shape on the last ball, or failing to breakout a cluster, allowing the player to runout themself, or play a lockup safe.

I know many of you probably think that you should play the same against everyone, but I tend to believe that it is circumstancial. I think that to play everyone the same, sometimes you might give over the table, when a runout, and a win, are a decent probability.

On the other hand, some feel that they have to play the better players more cautiously, and play safe more often, trying to get back to the table. And, when playing the weaker players, they will attempt runouts that are very difficult, feeling that the weaker player will just let them back to the table anyways.

What do you guys think? Play the table, or the person? Play offensively on the stronger players, or more defense?

 

[DelaWho???]

If I can't get out I play safe, the sooner the better. Nothing worse than finding yourself with 1 ball left and no where to put it. Even a novice can run out a table without obstructions some of the time. Play the table, if it is runable then run, if you can't get the breakout then lay up and play safe.
I'm too busy thinking about what I'm going to do to worry about what the other guy is capable of doing.

McCue Banger McCue

 

[Handsumm]

If I can't get out I play safe, the sooner the better. Nothing worse than finding yourself with 1 ball left and no where to put it. Even a novice can run out a table without obstructions some of the time. Play the table, if it is runable then run, if you can't get the breakout then lay up and play safe.
I'm too busy thinking about what I'm going to do to worry about what the other guy is capable of doing.

McCue Banger McCue

Good point. My question to you is, Are you more cautious with the better players? I mean, knowing that the weaker players probably won't get out if you do miss, Doesn't that give you a little more free will to just go for it?

 

[Klopek]

Do what feels right in the moment and don't second guess yourself. Sounds like obvious advice, but so few can follow it.

Edit: To clarify, my poll answer would be "All of the above" if it were an option. Depends on the situation and how I feel at the time. It's impossible to know before you're in the thick of it. As Lennon said, life happens while you're busy making other plans.

If you're able to keep your opponent stuffed in his chair, you need to be in pure offense and aggression mode. I see a lot of players switch gears at exactly the worst time and the momentum flips.

 

[Johnnyt]

I think saying "just play the table" is wrong when your playing better than average players. You might be playing with someone that will pass on most banks or has problems with long cut shots (old people like me) or he/she could have problems with combo's. That's why I think you need to play the table for what it gives you and the player for where to leave him/her. Johnnyt

 

[McKinneyMiner]

While I think it is always a good idea to play the table no matter who the opponent is, that is often easier said than done.

I find myself against weak players trying to trap / force them into shooting something that I want them to shoot or something that in the end benefits me. If they aren't likely to run out that will work a good percentage of the time.

Now, try that against a player of high skill level and you are inviting those balls to be shoved up your pooper.

Best to stick with playing the table.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

You're wrong if you think you can always disregard who your opponent is when making decisions at the table. On the otherhand, you're also wrong if this dictates EVERY decision.

Simply put, there are moments when you need to take it into consideration and moments when it really shouldn't matter. Any good player knows this.

A good example is when you have a hanging 9-ball and you're safe on the 1. Do you foul deliberately and pocket the 9 or do you take the kick-shot and hope for the best? Well, if my opponent typically runs out, I'm kicking. If my opponent struggles to run 3 balls, I'm giving him ball-in-hand and spotting that 9.

On the otherhand, who you're playing really doesn't matter when you're supposed to get out or when you're supposed to play safe. You don't take wild shots simply because you have no respect (or too much respect) for your opponent. You have to play the percentages. Sometimes the table dictates those percentages and sometimes your opponent does.

 

[Handsumm]

While I think it is always a good idea to play the table no matter who the opponent is, that is often easier said than done.

I find myself against weak players trying to trap / force them into shooting something that I want them to shoot or something that in the end benefits me. If they aren't likely to run out that will work a good percentage of the time.

Now, try that against a player of high skill level and you are inviting those balls to be shoved up your pooper.

Best to stick with playing the table.

Nice quote there!

 

[UWPoolGod1]

I am of the play the table mentality. If the best percentage shot at the time is playing a easily execuated lock safe then do that. If you have confidence that you can make the shot, get shape and get to your clusters etc then do that. Getting a ball in hand off of a safety makes for better opportunities to win in the long run, but only play safe if the table dictates. During the tourneys around town I get chastised by spectators when I play safe on a girl. That shot left me with the best opportunity to win, regardless of my opponents ability or gender. I would have played that shot on my own mother or Reyes. If either one makes the kick shot more power to them, they earned it and I tap my cue in appeciation of a well executed shot.

I do understand what you are saying about not letting your opponent to the table though. You never know when they are going to 3-rail kick, bank it in the side off the 8ball with perfect shape.

There is a point in every rack when you know that you either have to commit yourself to the runout or tieing up something to give yourself the opportunity at getting back to the table with another chance to get out. When you go for the out you better get out or your opponent will, don't assume you will get another shot.

 

[erikido]

You're wrong if you think you can always disregard who your opponent is when making decisions at the table. On the otherhand, you're also wrong if this dictates EVERY decision.

Simply put, there are moments when you need to take it into consideration and moments when it really shouldn't matter. Any good player knows this.

A good example is when you have a hanging 9-ball and you're safe on the 1. Do you foul deliberately and pocket the 9 or do you take the kick-shot and hope for the best? Well, if my opponent typically runs out, I'm kicking. If my opponent struggles to run 3 balls, I'm giving him ball-in-hand and spotting that 9.

On the otherhand, who you're playing really doesn't matter when you're supposed to get out or when you're supposed to play safe. You don't take wild shots simply because you have no respect (or too much respect) for your opponent. You have to play the percentages. Sometimes the table dictates those percentages and sometimes your opponent does.

I agree with every word..

 

[McKinneyMiner]

There is a point in every rack when you know that you either have to commit yourself to the runout or tieing up something to give yourself the opportunity at getting back to the table with another chance to get out. When you go for the out you better get out or your opponent will, don't assume you will get another shot.

This brings up an interesting ancillary topic.

When you reach that point in the rack where it is shoot or duck, are you more likely to shoot or duck?

It brings me back to what you said previously about someone kicking a ball in 3 rails with shape to beat you. In that situation do you find yourself wishing that maybe you had gone for something more offensive?

A maxim I live by is that I will not lose a match ducking. Given the choice between a hard safety/defensive play and a hard shot I will always go for the shot. I assume I won't get back to the table if I miss, but at least it is a chance to win.

I say give yourself a chance to win and a chance to be lucky if it doesn't work out for you rather than just a chance to maybe get back to the table or outright lose.

 

[Handsumm]

I believe that a good safety (which gives you a 85-90% chance of returning to the table with a shot/ball in hand) beats a tough shot (5-50% chance of making and/or getting shape on the next ball) any day, however; it can be said that making an extremely difficult shot can be the difference maker in a heated match, and can instill a little fear in your opponent.

 

[matcase]

It depends, if you are seriously working on your game, focus and play the table to the best of your abilities. If you have an opponent who has no chance against you, practice banks, or give them long shots to see if they will concentrate and maybe improve. If it's someone much stronger than you, see if you can play into their weaknesses, perhaps rattle them a little. Lots of fun to be had here. good luck.

 

[DelaWho???]

Good point. My question to you is, Are you more cautious with the better players? I mean, knowing that the weaker players probably won't get out if you do miss, Doesn't that give you a little more free will to just go for it?

I'm a novice who has been playing seriously for less than 2 yrs, so I figure everyone is better than me. If I've played you several times, and I know i'm the better player I still play the table. The difference is that "If I miss I'll get another chance" feeling. This can lead to carelessness and consequently a loss.
I sometimes have this problem when I'm playing the table. I'll make a mistake (get out of line) and look at the table figure whether the other guy can get out or not. If I perceive an I miss I lose situation, I'll go for broke and shoot the shot. If there's all kinds of trouble for the opponent I'll lay up and take my chances. Sometime it doesn't work out, and the other guy play the runout. If I was playing the player in the same situation, I might have done it differently.

McCue Banger McCue

 

[CaptainJR]

Excuse number 237
I took it easy on my opponent because I figured I would win anyway.

Excuse number 39
I played the table and it beat me.

Excuse number 118
I always try to play the same way. Usually very successful. (same way = poorly)

Excuse number 69
I was playing the player instead of the table. I should have been looking at the tables legs instead of hers.