Playing wood.

O

Olive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Heres one final one. Nr 3.

Wood selection seems to be a key element in a custom cue. What do the experts consider the best choice of 2 woods to marry for a good solid hit?

When looking into the best hitting woods, Bocote, Rosewood and many different types of Maple came on top of the list.

Indian rosewood, brazilian rosewood. BEM, curly maple, tiger maple, straight grain maple, sugar maple, hard rock maple :confused:

What are the differences besides looks between all of these different types of the same wood in cue making?

Do the different types of maple have different weight/consistency to them which differentiates them from each other in terms of performance?

Rosewood or bocote into BEM seems to be the most popular choice for a playing cue. Is this simply because they are contrasting woods, light/dark look nice together? What about bocote into rosewood? :eek: :D

If looks didn't matter, what would your choice of wood be for the 'hit' of your preference?

Please discuss, thank you!!!

Oliver
 
Olivewood forearm with Brazilian rosewood handle, staghorn collars, big pin, 30 rpi shaft, buckhorn ferrule and Kamui med hard tip.
Presto!
 
Haha Joey, i was thinking of putting "Joey - please reply" into my original post lol cause i knew you would give a straight opinion, none of the "its up to your personal preference" rants :P Olive wood, thats a new one, goes with my name tho ;) please tell more! Also check out my topic on construction please! thanks, oliver
 
Olivewood forearm with Brazilian rosewood handle, staghorn collars, big pin, 30 rpi shaft, buckhorn ferrule and Kamui med hard tip.
Presto!
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man Joey you like them crisp,what happened to Bubinga?

i like the the Black Rosewood the best.it is the best wood out there period,but it is kind of plain looking.it is so dark you can't really see the grain most times.it is also hefty,so it takes a little work to get it to 19oz without coring.i also like some of the dense Asian Rosewoods.i like lots of other woods too.as long as you match them up right they will all play and feel pretty good.


for handles i like a straight grain Maple or Purpleheart core with a slightly softer wood outside.especially with something crisp like an Olivewood front i would want something softer for a handle.
 
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masonh said:
man Joey you like them crisp,what happened to Bubinga?

i like the the Black Rosewood the best.it is the best wood out there period,but it is kind of plain looking.it is so dark you can't really see the grain most times.it is also hefty,so it takes a little work to get it to 19oz without coring.i also like some of the dense Asian Rosewoods.


for handles i like a straight grain Maple or Purpleheart core with a slightly softer wood outside.especially with something crisp like an Olivewood front i would want something softer for a handle.
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Hehehhe, I have some Braz that are not quite as hard as the usual ones. Straight grain, not much figuring. Of course a tight-grain rock maple would do well with african olivewood too.
Bocote/birdseye, purpleheart/birdseye or bubinga/purple hit nice too.
 
i have a few good Brazilian squares,but most of the brazilian out there now is sh**.i plan on making a cue with 3 different Rosewoods soon,with the hanlde being Brazilian.the butt and front will be different from each other,but will go together.
 
Olive said:
Heres one final one. Nr 3.

Wood selection seems to be a key element in a custom cue. What do the experts consider the best choice of 2 woods to marry for a good solid hit?

When looking into the best hitting woods, Bocote, Rosewood and many different types of Maple came on top of the list.

Indian rosewood, brazilian rosewood. BEM, curly maple, tiger maple, straight grain maple, sugar maple, hard rock maple :confused:

What are the differences besides looks between all of these different types of the same wood in cue making?

Do the different types of maple have different weight/consistency to them which differentiates them from each other in terms of performance?

Rosewood or bocote into BEM seems to be the most popular choice for a playing cue. Is this simply because they are contrasting woods, light/dark look nice together? What about bocote into rosewood? :eek: :D

If looks didn't matter, what would your choice of wood be for the 'hit' of your preference?

Please discuss, thank you!!!

Oliver
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Well Olive "Hit" and preference of that hit is subjective to the player. Hard, stiff, flexible, soft, feeling, no feeling, speed fo the player? These are questions I ask first.
As to my favorite hit. Hmm Bubinga forearm and blood wood handle rock maple shaft 17.5 oz. to play with. Bubinga forearm and ebony handle for a breaker with a brazillian cherry shaft round 22 oz. Weighs a ton hits like a cannon. IMO
 
Aspen forearm & cottonwood handle ;) That's the ticket.

Oliver, are you a cuemaker, aspiring cuemaker?
 
qbilder said:
Aspen forearm & cottonwood handle ;) That's the ticket.

Oliver, are you a cuemaker, aspiring cuemaker?
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I'm a player... interested in cue building :) just have a keen interest. Im trying to look at cues from a technical players point of view, since to me, the traditional semantics of a cue have got a few contradicting 'flaws'. i have a background in snooker, pool and russian billiards and a degree in design. i dont want to 'make' just yet, more collaborate :)
 
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Most builders I know are players before builders, and good players at that. You can be sure that cues are getting as fine tuned as ever. We know what a cue is supposed to do & how it's supposed to feel. There are so many great builders out right now that it's nearly certain that perfection is getting close. I'm personally getting better and better at building, with each small step inching closer to a perfect cue. I see it in several cuemakers, especially some of the newer age builders in my generation, and a couple of the veterans. If nothing else, cues have advanced as a whole tremendously. It's tough to find a cheap production cue that isn't built well.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Olivewood forearm with Brazilian rosewood handle, staghorn collars, big pin, 30 rpi shaft, buckhorn ferrule and Kamui med hard tip.
Presto!
Click to expand...

I'll take it!!!!
 
qbilder said:
Most builders I know are players before builders, and good players at that. You can be sure that cues are getting as fine tuned as ever. We know what a cue is supposed to do & how it's supposed to feel. There are so many great builders out right now that it's nearly certain that perfection is getting close. I'm personally getting better and better at building, with each small step inching closer to a perfect cue. I see it in several cuemakers, especially some of the newer age builders in my generation, and a couple of the veterans. If nothing else, cues have advanced as a whole tremendously. It's tough to find a cheap production cue that isn't built well.
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i am sure that is true, however the game of pool isnt as technically demanding as it might be in more precision demanding games such as snooker or russian billiards. therefore an informed maker wouldn't be asked to cater for certain things. obviously it would be marginal changes one could do to a cue to increase its performance and it would be definitely subjective, but i can see a few little but basic things that could be done differently for my own playing style. as you say - things are getting better continuously, so why should that tendency stop now :P
 
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Olive said:
i am sure that is true, however the technique in pool hasnt evolved as far as it has in more precision demanding games such as snooker for instance. therefore a pool player gone maker would be aware of only so much. obviously it would be marginal changes one could do to a cue to increase its performance and it would be definitely subjective, but i can see a few little but basic things that could be done differently. as you say - things are getting better continuously, so why should that tendency stop now :P
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Well, there's always room for improvement. Everybody who builds cues does it because they think they can bring some improvement, but rarely do. As for comparing to snooker, not a chance. American handmade pool cues are tremendously more advanced than snooker cues. Snooker cues have changed very little since ever. Ash shaft, full spliced hardwood butt into ash forearm, brass joint with brass ferrule, straight conical taper the entire length, etc. It's a simple cue ANY cuemaker can build without hesitation.

Now take your snooker cue, find more suitable woods from around the world & not just what you can find in Europe & Africa. Formulate & create a unique multi-plane taper that gives rigidity, playability & accuracy, while feeling comfortable to the player. Learn how to pinpoint balance the cue for more efficient stroking. Learn how to match woods according to harmonics, weight, balance, hardness, liveliness, memory response, stiffness, etc. Then once you get all of this figured out, begin working on the ferrule and which material gives the playability & feel you think is best for a cue. How about ferrule installation techniques? There's more to it than putting a short brass sleeve over a tenon such as snooker cues.

I'm not picking at snooker cues. They are suitable for the game they are intended to play, and apparently nobody has an urge to advance it. But snooker is a localized European game. 9-ball is everywhere. I build pool cues & ship them to nearly every civilized country in the world. How many snooker cue makers can say that? Again, i'm taking nothing away from snooker. I just think you are grossly mistaken in saying that pool players are not as precise as snooker players and therefore cannot be as precise builders. Show me one snooker player who can run out a rotation game like Efren Reyes & other Filipinos do regulary, on a pool table with big pockets & big balls. When I see European snooker players running racks of rotation & their local builders supplying them with cues to aid in their efforts, then we can have a discussion. Until then it's apples vs. oranges.
 
qbilder said:
Well, there's always room for improvement. Everybody who builds cues does it because they think they can bring some improvement, but rarely do. As for comparing to snooker, not a chance. American handmade pool cues are tremendously more advanced than snooker cues. Snooker cues have changed very little since ever. Ash shaft, full spliced hardwood butt into ash forearm, brass joint with brass ferrule, straight conical taper the entire length, etc. It's a simple cue ANY cuemaker can build without hesitation.

Now take your snooker cue, find more suitable woods from around the world & not just what you can find in Europe & Africa. Formulate & create a unique multi-plane taper that gives rigidity, playability & accuracy, while feeling comfortable to the player. Learn how to pinpoint balance the cue for more efficient stroking. Learn how to match woods according to harmonics, weight, balance, hardness, liveliness, memory response, stiffness, etc. Then once you get all of this figured out, begin working on the ferrule and which material gives the playability & feel you think is best for a cue. How about ferrule installation techniques? There's more to it than putting a short brass sleeve over a tenon such as snooker cues.

I'm not picking at snooker cues. They are suitable for the game they are intended to play, and apparently nobody has an urge to advance it. But snooker is a localized European game. 9-ball is everywhere. I build pool cues & ship them to nearly every civilized country in the world. How many snooker cue makers can say that? Again, i'm taking nothing away from snooker. I just think you are grossly mistaken in saying that pool players are not as precise as snooker players and therefore cannot be as precise builders. Show me one snooker player who can run out a rotation game like Efren Reyes & other Filipinos do regulary, on a pool table with big pockets & big balls. When I see European snooker players running racks of rotation & their local builders supplying them with cues to aid in their efforts, then we can have a discussion. Until then it's apples vs. oranges.
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I think you might have misunderstood me.

Pool cues are a lot more advanced then snooker cues. Totally agree.
What i was talking about earlier was the playing technique in snooker, which on the professional level is much more advanced and incorporates more elements within it than pool. The Terry Griffiths style is what i find most efficient. Hardly any players adapt it to its full extent apart from mr. Griffiths himself, but it is widely utilized by almost all the pro's.

What i meant is, since the playing technique in pool or lack thereof varies quite a lot, the cue craft cannot and does not cater for the technical aspects utilized. If this were done, however, i believe the cue would perform, if only marginally, better.

I am not taking anything away from hugely talented top pool players, simply saying that the technique in snooker is more complex, and produces better accuracy and cue ball control. I am not saying that this is completely universal, after all, there will always be an Efren or a Ronnie (who by the way is now coached by Terry), but unfortunately not all of us are that talented. I could improve most pool players game, i am trying to create a cue that would work with my (Terry's) approach.

Thank you for the wonderful posts! Lots to think about within construction. Got me thinking of having a snooker cue made by a pool cue maker and replacing my Parris :) Btw, if you would like to chat about this more, drop me a pm!

Cheers, Oliver
 
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I am not taking anything away from hugely talented top pool players, simply saying that the technique in snooker is more complex, and produces better accuracy and cue ball control. I am not saying that this is completely universal, after all, there will always be an Efren or a Ronnie (who by the way is now coached by Terry), but unfortunately not all of us are that talented. I could improve most pool players game, i am trying to create a cue that would work with my (Terry's) approach.
Good, lemme fly there and take snooker lessons and open up a school here.:)
 
JoeyInCali said:
Olivewood forearm with Brazilian rosewood handle, staghorn collars, big pin, 30 rpi shaft, buckhorn ferrule and Kamui med hard tip.
Presto!
Click to expand...

Joey,

What would be the cost and lead time for you to build something like this? PM if you prefer :)
 
Olive said:
I think you might have misunderstood me.

Pool cues are a lot more advanced then snooker cues. Totally agree.
What i was talking about earlier was the playing technique in snooker, which on the professional level is much more advanced and incorporates more elements within it than pool. The Terry Griffiths style is what i find most efficient. Hardly any players adapt it to its full extent apart from mr. Griffiths himself, but it is widely utilized by almost all the pro's.

What i meant is, since the playing technique in pool or lack thereof varies quite a lot, the cue craft cannot and does not cater for the technical aspects utilized in this advanced technique. If this were done, however, i believe the cue would perform, if only marginally, better.

I am not taking anything away from hugely talented top pool players, simply saying that the technique in snooker is more complex, and produces better accuracy and cue ball control. I am not saying that this is completely universal, after all, there will always be an Efren or a Ronnie (who by the way is now coached by Terry), but unfortunately not all of us are that talented. I could improve most pool players game, i am trying to create a cue that would work with my (Terry's) approach.

Thank you for the wonderful posts! Lots to think about within construction. Got me thinking of having a snooker cue made by a pool cue maker and replacing my Parris :) Btw, if you would like to chat about this more, drop me a pm!

Cheers, Oliver
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The major difference between pool & snooker is power & position play. I play snooker & golf to some degree of quality play, and understand the differences between the games. Pool requires precise ball movement & position play due to smaller tables & bigger balls, hence more congested traffic. Power & spin is key. In snooker, shot accuracy & speed control are most important. Smaller balls, smaller pockets, notably larger table all require more precise shot making capability, but put no more stress on position play than pool.

The difference in games require a difference in cue styles. It's tough to play accurate 9-ball on a 9ft table using a snooker cue. As such, it's tough using a 13mm tipped pool cue to play snooker. A really good example is the European snooker players coming over to the USA to play nine ball & getting pool cues made by builders who know the game. Alison Fisher & Karen Corr are fine examples. Both are snooker champions in Europe, and pool champions in USA. They use pool cues for pool & snooker cues for snooker. Again, it's comparing apples to apples & oranges to oranges.

If you have good ideas to enhance cues, and advance the quality of play across the board for pool players, then please pursue the idea. No idea is a good idea until it is executed. Sometimes seeing things from the outside looking in is a good way to point things out that would otherwise go unnoticed.
 
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