Please offer your opinions on cue design theft

[JB Cases]

What says more about his character is his preference and belief on where he spends his money. Its refreshing to see someone STILL try and protect the country.

JV

IIRC he drives a foreign brand car. Maybe that's changed. Bet you don't want to bet too high on doing a walk through of his house to see just where all the things he owns are made.

But having said that there is nothing especially WRONG with wanting to buy "made in USA" stuff if you believe that it helps. What's morally reprehensible, to me, is to vilify entire other races of people to promote your agenda. That's racist and bigoted which are never signs of good character.

 

[JB Cases]

In Scott's case no I do not, for the following reasons:

The company is no longer in the business!

Brunswick is out of business?

 

[JB Cases]

If you wanna see more stupid shit said on a forum than you could ever dream of, start a cue design theft thread......instant mass lobotomy.....lol.

Sorry but you're wrong. Any thread on aiming holds that distinction.

Actually it's really funny to see the amount of armchair lawyers who won't even take one minute to research the topics they want to convict people over. Just one minute to see if what they 'think' the law is matches reality. But they don't and they want to lynch those who they think committed a crime against humanity.

 

[poolplayer2093]

[SIZE="7


Cowboy, I agree his comments were way outline and disrespectful, I also do not appreciate them in my thread. But do not blame the military for that mentality, I mean come on you were a Boy Scout and look at the comments you make on a daily basis. Should people blame the Boy Scouts for your actions!!!!!! Please stop being a Parrot and add some content based upon your own individual thoughts, now that would be very refreshing!!!

Fine if you're going to get like that about it. it's a design. if it's not patented i don't consider it theft. there are plenty of tad, harvy martin, and southwest styles cues floating around and you don't hear many complaints about them

cue building may be part art but it's not rocket science. there are only so many different variations so copying designs was bound to happen

 

[manwon]

Fine if you're going to get like that about it. it's a design. if it's not patented i don't consider it theft. there are plenty of tad, harvy martin, and southwest styles cues floating around and you don't hear many complaints about them

cue building may be part art but it's not rocket science. there are only so many different variations so copying designs was bound to happen

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:thumbup::grin::smile:

 

[Antfarm]

How many Tim Scruggs look like Balabushkas?

I own one and it is a thing of beauty and an amazing player.

Who cares if someone builds a cue like someone else. Unless it is a huge collector/museum piece that was obviously the crowning achievement of someone's cue making career, it is just another cue. If the cuemaker copyrighted/patented his design like the Lambros Ultra Joint, then it might matter. If not, why should it?

I could go out and take a Gina and match it 100% and sell it in any way I chose. I'm still not building a Gina cue. I'm building an Antfarm cue that would have my signature on it. I wouldn't say it was a Gina cue. I might say it was a Gina tribute. But then, I'm giving credit to Gina for the design.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter.

Greg

 

[JB Cases]

I own one and it is a thing of beauty and an amazing player.

Who cares if someone builds a cue like someone else. Unless it is a huge collector/museum piece that was obviously the crowning achievement of someone's cue making career, it is just another cue. If the cuemaker copyrighted/patented his design like the Lambros Ultra Joint, then it might matter. If not, why should it?

I could go out and take a Gina and match it 100% and sell it in any way I chose. I'm still not building a Gina cue. I'm building an Antfarm cue that would have my signature on it. I wouldn't say it was a Gina cue. I might say it was a Gina tribute. But then, I'm giving credit to Gina for the design.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter.

Greg

It does matter. It matters more or less depending on the perspective you are looking at the issue from.

If you are the person who spent a lot of time to figure out something that has never been done before then you naturally would not like to see it copied ever. And if it does get copied then you certainly don't want to see other people taking credit for the design as if they invented it.

If you are the guy who doesn't have $5000 to spend on a high end cue then you are not so concerned with copies of $5000 cues as long as you can get them for $500.

If you're the company that is poised to put 20 million into a marketing campaign for your new super widget you don't want to see another company getting the jump on you with the half-priced copy.

If you're the customer standing in Best Buy then you want the largest selection of Super Widgets possible and who copied who is not on your mind.

The fact of is that designers are driven by ego. Their (and mine) sense of self-worth comes from the amount of praise they get from their creations. It HURTS a lot when someone copies your work substantially and they get praise for it and don't mention you.

I have always been one to mention WHERE I get inspiration from and why. I enjoy talking about what inspired me and what changes I made and why I made them. I am a huge huge huge case geek. Because of this I respect my peers SO MUCH that I will only take what I think is the very best of what they do. And when I do I will give them credit and encourage people to buy from them and really just pretty much try hard to work within the belief that there is enough room for all of us to co-exist and build off each other.

When you sit in the show room of a big importer and you are talking about how many cases they will order and you see that they have four pages dedicated to copies of your work as I have then it really hurts. It's not the same as when Porper decides to take a main element of my most popular case. That hurts but it's also a HUGE compliment. But when your own customers bring in dead-nuts copies of your work then it's brutal. Especially when you must continue dealing with them because you depend on their orders.

Has nothing to do with legality. It's just a major slap in the face. And it's a dance in business that never ends.

So yes, copying matters. To what degree is the question. My current philosophy on it is that it's part of the cycle of life. It's nothing new. In all societies through recorded history that which is popular and successful and desirable has been copied.

 

[poolplayer2093]

IIRC he drives a foreign brand car. Maybe that's changed. Bet you don't want to bet too high on doing a walk through of his house to see just where all the things he owns are made.

But having said that there is nothing especially WRONG with wanting to buy "made in USA" stuff if you believe that it helps. What's morally reprehensible, to me, is to vilify entire other races of people to promote your agenda. That's racist and bigoted which are never signs of good character.

It's not my fault that china isn't as diverse as the U.S. is. it's not because they're ethnically chinese that i try to avoid buying things made there. it's because they've, with the help of wealthy americans, have undercut americans right out of a job.

and of course you think my agenda is so evil. Me and my whole buy americans to keep america working agenda goes completely against your values.

 

[JB Cases]

It's not my fault that china isn't as diverse as the U.S. is. it's not because they're ethnically chinese that i try to avoid buying things made there. it's because they've, with the help of wealthy americans, have undercut americans right out of a job.

and of course you think my agenda is so evil. Me and my whole buy americans to keep america working agenda goes completely against your values.

I have nothing against you wanting to buy American. You are simply ignorant of the underlying economics and thus being unable to argue it from a logical point you resort to slanderous and racist bigotry using stereotypes to attempt to push emotional buttons.

Use facts and not stereotypes. When you can't use logic you resort to personal insults that you must somehow think are scoring points. All you are doing is turning off those who know better. You fail to understand that a great many of the visitors here are not from the USA. Beyond that a lot of Americans who are readers on AZB are ethnically Chinese and Asian so when you insult their culture in a wholesale manner you are insulting them as well.

If you think that people should be free to copy others then you should also think people should be free to live and work wherever they want to without persecution. Would you accept it if I told you where you can live and work and for how much? I doubt highly that you would accept a cap on your wages or that you would accept being told you were NOT allowed to move to another state in order to take a higher paying job. Conversely who are you to tell any business that they cannot move to wherever their costs are lower? Can you say double standard?

 

[poolplayer2093]

IIRC he drives a foreign brand car. Maybe that's changed. Bet you don't want to bet too high on doing a walk through of his house to see just where all the things he owns are made.

But having said that there is nothing especially WRONG with wanting to buy "made in USA" stuff if you believe that it helps. What's morally reprehensible, to me, is to vilify entire other races of people to promote your agenda. That's racist and bigoted which are never signs of good character.

You don't wanna bet too high on walking through any middle class americans house being filled with american made products only.

i buy american made whenever i can find them. but guys like you who value nothing over making a dollar, not even your country/countrymen, have moved production of just about everything out of the country.

just because it's legal and makes you a dollar more doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. sure you make a few bucks but guys like you are doing your part to ruin this country. the gap between the poor and the rich is shrinking because guys like you condone and support putting the middle class out of work

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have nothing against you wanting to buy American. You are simply ignorant of the underlying economics and thus being unable to argue it from a logical point you resort to slanderous and racist bigotry using stereotypes to attempt to push emotional buttons.

Use facts and not stereotypes. When you can't use logic you resort to personal insults that you must somehow think are scoring points. All you are doing is turning off those who know better. You fail to understand that a great many of the visitors here are not from the USA. Beyond that a lot of Americans who are readers on AZB are ethnically Chinese and Asian so when you insult their culture in a wholesale manner you are insulting them as well.

If you think that people should be free to copy others then you should also think people should be free to live and work wherever they want to without persecution. Would you accept it if I told you where you can live and work and for how much? I doubt highly that you would accept a cap on your wages or that you would accept being told you were NOT allowed to move to another state in order to take a higher paying job. Conversely who are you to tell any business that they cannot move to wherever their costs are lower? Can you say double standard?

ignorant?? it's pretty clear why you support your point of view. you make more money doing it so it doesn't matter to you how many blue collar americans go out of work because of it. you're all for moving production out of the states.

racist remarks? i may have mentioned a stereotype but stereotypes are common because they're true to a point. black people are good at sports, asians are good at math.... so on and so forth.

my comments about china may seem racist to you but that's because china is both a country and a race. if China was as diverse as america id' have said the same thing

 

[poolplayer2093]

I have nothing against you wanting to buy American. You are simply ignorant of the underlying economics and thus being unable to argue it from a logical point you resort to slanderous and racist bigotry using stereotypes to attempt to push emotional buttons.

Use facts and not stereotypes. When you can't use logic you resort to personal insults that you must somehow think are scoring points. All you are doing is turning off those who know better. You fail to understand that a great many of the visitors here are not from the USA. Beyond that a lot of Americans who are readers on AZB are ethnically Chinese and Asian so when you insult their culture in a wholesale manner you are insulting them as well.

If you think that people should be free to copy others then you should also think people should be free to live and work wherever they want to without persecution. Would you accept it if I told you where you can live and work and for how much? I doubt highly that you would accept a cap on your wages or that you would accept being told you were NOT allowed to move to another state in order to take a higher paying job. Conversely who are you to tell any business that they cannot move to wherever their costs are lower? Can you say double standard?

I'm not saying they can't. but they should admit what happens to their country men because of it.

if it makes you feel better i'm one of those az'rs that are of asian decent. i'm part chinese too. my blood is real mixed but i'm 100% american.

 

[JB Cases]

You don't wanna bet too high on walking through any middle class americans house being filled with american made products only.

i buy american made whenever i can find them. but guys like you who value nothing over making a dollar, not even your country/countrymen, have moved production of just about everything out of the country.

just because it's legal and makes you a dollar more doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. sure you make a few bucks but guys like you are doing your part to ruin this country. the gap between the poor and the rich is shrinking because guys like you condone and support putting the middle class out of work

Oh please. Guys like me? You don't know anything about me. What makes you think that anyone wants to ruin America? That is such a stupid notion. So you think that there are some evil cabal of greedy capitalists planning the destruction of America? They are planning to destroy their customers???

See, this is what I mean. Basic economics completely fails you. Let me break it down for you. NO ONE wants to produce goods any farther from their customers than they HAVE TO. No one.

No foreign manufacturer wants to produce in China if they have any other choice. (if you lived here you would understand why) But the only way to stay IN BUSINESS is to be competitive and profitable. You need to be competitive in order to maintain sales and the products you sell need to be profitable in order that company can remain healthy.

So at it's most basic this means that costs have to be as low as possible while productivity should be as high as possible. So when the business is no longer able to produce a product profitably in a particular area then it must cut that production or go somewhere else.

Now, that is the last lesson I am going to give you. I suggest you spend more time educating yourself on both sides of the issues and don't rely on sound bites.

 

[poolplayer2093]

Oh please. Guys like me? You don't know anything about me. What makes you think that anyone wants to ruin America? That is such a stupid notion. So you think that there are some evil cabal of greedy capitalists planning the destruction of America? They are planning to destroy their customers???

See, this is what I mean. Basic economics completely fails you. Let me break it down for you. NO ONE wants to produce goods any farther from their customers than they HAVE TO. No one.

No foreign manufacturer wants to produce in China if they have any other choice. (if you lived here you would understand why) But the only way to stay IN BUSINESS is to be competitive and profitable. You need to be competitive in order to maintain sales and the products you sell need to be profitable in order that company can remain healthy.

So at it's most basic this means that costs have to be as low as possible while productivity should be as high as possible. So when the business is no longer able to produce a product profitably in a particular area then it must cut that production or go somewhere else.

Now, that is the last lesson I am going to give you. I suggest you spend more time educating yourself on both sides of the issues and don't rely on sound bites.

i suggest you come back to america and see what blue collar americans think about your point of view on the subject.

No foreign manufacturer wants to produce products in china if they can avoid it!! that just isn't true. the company i used to work for made a tidy profit on each unit they sold but they were still itching to move production out of the states and into china to increase their profits

i'll give you this. maybe the guys like you line was a hair out of line/harsh. maybe...... any american that doesn't think "buy american" is a good policy, or that it helps america, is questionable at best.

 

[JB Cases]

I'm not saying they can't. but they should admit what happens to their country men because of it.

if it makes you feel better i'm one of those az'rs that are of asian decent. i'm part chinese too. my blood is real mixed but i'm 100% american.

So you're a hypocrite? Who told you stereotypes are true to a point? Honestly there should be a ****ing intelligence test required before people are allowed to use computers.

What happens to their countrymen? Here is what happens when a factory closes - people LOSE their jobs. So what? How did those jobs come into being in the first place? Oh, someone GAVE those jobs to the people.

Someone with money - you know that greedy asshole capitalist - showed up and built a factory and hired a bunch of people and kept them working until such time as it became unprofitable at which time he closed the factory. Is that really so hard to understand?

What part of you are not born entitled to a job do you not understand. No one OWES you a job. When you have a job then do the job and bank the cash because the job might not be there tomorrow. Is this concept too much for you?

When you have a JOB it means you are working FOR someone else in a business that THEY own. You don't own it. You don't assume the risk. You get a paycheck no matter what happens until such time as the business can't afford to give you a check. Do you assume the debts of the business? Of course not. If the business goes under you simply walk away and go get another job.

So quit the nonsense. You don't know shit about economics, you don't know shit about business, you don't know shit about intellectual property law. All you have is a virtual pedestal where you spout the same ignorant rhetoric over and over and over. As far as I know you don't make anything, your don't own a business, you don't have employees, you don't have to make payroll, and you don't have any money invested in any business. So before you presume to lecture me go get some experience and then come back and tell me how business works.

 

[JB Cases]

i suggest you come back to america and see what blue collar americans think about your point of view on the subject.

No foreign manufacturer wants to produce products in china if they can avoid it!! that just isn't true. the company i used to work for made a tidy profit on each unit they sold but they were still itching to move production out of the states and into china to increase their profits

i'll give you this. maybe the guys like you line was a hair out of line/harsh. maybe...... any american that doesn't think "buy american" is a good policy, or that it helps america, is questionable at best.

It is true. Who are you to tell a company what profit they are allowed to earn? Were you privy to the board meetings? Were you invested in the company you worked for? Did you see their P&L?

Since you don't know anything about me you couldn't be expected to know that I have worked in factories, on farms, in restaurants and other "blue collar" jobs.

I don't see a job as something that is a right. A job is simply a means to make income. It's not something that is intended to be a permanent situation.

Anyone who gives you a job HOPES that they can employ you forever. Because doing that implies that they will be making money off your work.

I can guarantee you that NO CEO wants to close factories in the USA and move the production to China. With 100% certainty I can tell you the every single executive in the USA would prefer to keep all their operations in the USA so that they don't have to travel and deal with other cultures and other laws and the logistics of moving goods halfway around the world.

 

[poolplayer2093]

So you're a hypocrite? Who told you stereotypes are true to a point? Honestly there should be a ****ing intelligence test required before people are allowed to use computers.

What happens to their countrymen? Here is what happens when a factory closes - people LOSE their jobs. So what? How did those jobs come into being in the first place? Oh, someone GAVE those jobs to the people.

Someone with money - you know that greedy asshole capitalist - showed up and built a factory and hired a bunch of people and kept them working until such time as it became unprofitable at which time he closed the factory. Is that really so hard to understand?

What part of you are not born entitled to a job do you not understand. No one OWES you a job. When you have a job then do the job and bank the cash because the job might not be there tomorrow. Is this concept too much for you?

When you have a JOB it means you are working FOR someone else in a business that THEY own. You don't own it. You don't assume the risk. You get a paycheck no matter what happens until such time as the business can't afford to give you a check. Do you assume the debts of the business? Of course not. If the business goes under you simply walk away and go get another job.

So quit the nonsense. You don't know shit about economics, you don't know shit about business, you don't know shit about intellectual property law. All you have is a virtual pedestal where you spout the same ignorant rhetoric over and over and over. As far as I know you don't make anything, your don't own a business, you don't have employees, you don't have to make payroll, and you don't have any money invested in any business. So before you presume to lecture me go get some experience and then come back and tell me how business works.

you really are stupid if you don't get what every buy american guy i the country has been trying ot get across to you.

Everyone knows that nobody's entitled to anything. But not owning up to the fact that destroying your own country/ countrymen to make a few bucks is wrong seems so beyond your selfish little mind. You're whole "it doesn't matter if those americans that were laid off starve to death because it was the rich peoples will that kept them alive as long as they lived in the first place" attitude is sickening. like it's somehow ok to screw over american employees because they wouldn't have been employees in the first place without people like you.

they can do what ever they want. but there are consequences to those decisions. and in the case of moving jobs out of america it's the country that pays for those individuals decisions.

i'll admit it i didn't do great in economics. i got a "B" though. and how much better could you have done? you run a small company that wouldn't be afloat anywhere other than china. because paying in candy bars and only guaranteeing halloween off is sweet compared to what you'd have to pay here in the states.

what kind of chemicals do you dump in the ocean? just curious i hear that's another reason people move their business to china. apparently there are way less hazmat laws there

 

[poolplayer2093]

It is true. Who are you to tell a company what profit they are allowed to earn? Were you privy to the board meetings? Were you invested in the company you worked for? Did you see their P&L?

Since you don't know anything about me you couldn't be expected to know that I have worked in factories, on farms, in restaurants and other "blue collar" jobs.

I don't see a job as something that is a right. A job is simply a means to make income. It's not something that is intended to be a permanent situation.

Anyone who gives you a job HOPES that they can employ you forever. Because doing that implies that they will be making money off your work.

I can guarantee you that NO CEO wants to close factories in the USA and move the production to China. With 100% certainty I can tell you the every single executive in the USA would prefer to keep all their operations in the USA so that they don't have to travel and deal with other cultures and other laws and the logistics of moving goods halfway around the world.

i knew more about that company that i worked at than you did and they were all too eager to get things set up in china.

like i said they're allowed to make as much dough as they can make. it doesn't make what they ahve to do to americans to do it right.

the days coming where america will be so out of work we won't be able to buy anything as individuals anymore. it'll just be the super rich and the super poor. suites you just fine but the middle class is what keeps the american dream alive.

 

[JB Cases]

i knew more about that company that i worked at than you did and they were all too eager to get things set up in china.

like i said they're allowed to make as much dough as they can make. it doesn't make what they ahve to do to americans to do it right.

the days coming where america will be so out of work we won't be able to buy anything as individuals anymore. it'll just be the super rich and the super poor. suites you just fine but the middle class is what keeps the american dream alive.

I am sure you did. I am sure you were a critical employee that they deferred to for all their decisions.

Tell you what, the doom and gloom you predict is not going to happen. I gave you a bunch of links in NPR for you to use to educate yourself on the ACTUAL numbers. Since you know so much about me which class of people do you think I belong to, the super rich or the super poor? Don't bother answering. See you in ten years when you will still be predicting the downfall of humanity.

Now for God's sake I am REALLY DONE with the conversation. The reason is not because your lack of logic is so frustrating. I honestly can not fade your bad writing, it's like knives in my eyes trying to read your bad sentences.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I am sure you did. I am sure you were a critical employee that they deferred to for all their decisions.

Tell you what, the doom and gloom you predict is not going to happen. I gave you a bunch of links in NPR for you to use to educate yourself on the ACTUAL numbers. Since you know so much about me which class of people do you think I belong to, the super rich or the super poor? Don't bother answering. See you in ten years when you will still be predicting the downfall of humanity.

Now for God's sake I am REALLY DONE with the conversation. The reason is not because your lack of logic is so frustrating. I honestly can not fade your bad writing, it's like knives in my eyes trying to read your bad sentences.

That's fine. you're so focused on it not being illegal you're not paying attention to whats actually going on in the states