Pocket size? Shims, Cut? Angle? Help AZ Community

JB Cases

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Ok, so in a few weeks I am getting a new table. I am undecided as to what size pockets to get.

If I go with 4.5" I think that they will be too easy. However if I go with 4.25" I think that it changes the game or better said changes the way I play as some shots become too hard to play with sidespin or speed.

Now, I know that part of this is because I am not a great player so what would work for a pro doesn't apply to me and probably never will.

Other than the bar tables I owned which I had the pockets tightened up on I have never owned a nine footer with anything but the standard pockets that they cam with.

So, what's your advice AZ Community?

Those of you who have really tight pockets......has it helped your game? Do you find that when you go to a place with looser pockets that you can still play the rails and cheat the pockets much easier after practicing on tight pockets where those shots are much harder if not nearly impossible.

And how about shims vs. lengthening the cushion.

For all my years in pool and despite the fact that I have recovered about ten tables I am really ignorant of which one of these methods is better and why.
 
John,
Over here at Hard Times in Sacramento I play on 4" pockets and when I go to other tables is like such a big difference for the better.
I would not shim the pockets and instead I would get the lengthening of the cushion done, no brainer. With tight triple shimmed pockets you might end up having dead spots near the rails.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, so in a few weeks I am getting a new table. I am undecided as to what size pockets to get.

If I go with 4.5" I think that they will be too easy. However if I go with 4.25" I think that it changes the game or better said changes the way I play as some shots become too hard to play with sidespin or speed.

Now, I know that part of this is because I am not a great player so what would work for a pro doesn't apply to me and probably never will.

Other than the bar tables I owned which I had the pockets tightened up on I have never owned a nine footer with anything but the standard pockets that they cam with.

So, what's your advice AZ Community?

Those of you who have really tight pockets......has it helped your game? Do you find that when you go to a place with looser pockets that you can still play the rails and cheat the pockets much easier after practicing on tight pockets where those shots are much harder if not nearly impossible.

And how about shims vs. lengthening the cushion.

For all my years in pool and despite the fact that I have recovered about ten tables I am really ignorant of which one of these methods is better and why.
Click to expand...

I believe that this clip can perhaps give you some beneficial help. :)
 
I play at two pool halls. One has tables with buckets, one has tables with pockets tighter than a virgin. I player at the latter to train, and at the former to have fun. Tight pockets are no fun at all but make you shoot straight, while wide pockets make you sloppy but also allow you to train tricky shot that require wide pocket mouths to be successful.

If I were you, I'd get pockets that are "reasonable", somewhere in the middle.
 
Just you playing?

I just got a GV IV. I really wanted to tighten up the pockets, but my daughter is showing an interest in playing pool. I felt that a table with "buckets" would be more likely to keep her interested in playing pool.

It isn't much fun if you never make anything.
 
IMO 4.5 inches is the perfect pocket size. Has the benefits of training you to shoot straight while also allowing to cheat the pocket a little.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, so in a few weeks I am getting a new table. I am undecided as to what size pockets to get.

If I go with 4.5" I think that they will be too easy. However if I go with 4.25" I think that it changes the game or better said changes the way I play as some shots become too hard to play with sidespin or speed.

Now, I know that part of this is because I am not a great player so what would work for a pro doesn't apply to me and probably never will.

Other than the bar tables I owned which I had the pockets tightened up on I have never owned a nine footer with anything but the standard pockets that they cam with.

So, what's your advice AZ Community?

Those of you who have really tight pockets......has it helped your game? Do you find that when you go to a place with looser pockets that you can still play the rails and cheat the pockets much easier after practicing on tight pockets where those shots are much harder if not nearly impossible.

And how about shims vs. lengthening the cushion.

For all my years in pool and despite the fact that I have recovered about ten tables I am really ignorant of which one of these methods is better and why.
Click to expand...


IMO.....go with as tight as you can get it while still allowing a ball cut in down the rail at speed to drop. That includes for angles and size.

It will be frustrating.... for a while.... but will MAKE you give every shot the 'reverence' it deserves. That will in turn change your preshot routine over time to accomodate the extra concentration level.. and your game will go up.

Lengthening the rails is the best way to go.... especially if you like to play banks or 1P, as you need to occassionaly play one off the point, which if you have shims can give an altered path than the cushion would.

JMHO... have fun on the new table!! :smile:

td
 
If you haven't decided on a table manufacturer play on either a Brunswick or Diamond. One will appeal to you. Buy that one and don't worry about how large or small the pockets are.

Tables and pocket configurations will constantly be changed. Years ago 5 1/8was the standard. Cloth speed has changed. The next thing to change may be ball size and weight.

If you can shoot straight to where you are aimining with a smooth stroke the pocket size won't matter.

If you are really concerned about pocket size and tightness buy a snooker table and play with regular 2 1/4" balls.
 
What about using reducers? That way you can remove them if you wish. I've never seen them used to know if they're any good or useful.
 
First of all...

First of all, there's a big difference between a Diamond with 4.25" pockets and a Gold crown with 4.25" pockets.
 
Anything shimmed tighter than 4 and a half inches is to much imo. A long draw shot down the rail wont go down (or at least they wont go all the time like they should). 4 qand a halfs are tight enough to make you bear down but you will still have a smidge of pocket when not shooting down a rail to cheat with. Gl and have fun
 
I have a Kim Steel table with TIGHT pockets and it wears on you when you play, but when I go out to pool rooms, they all play like buckets.
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, so in a few weeks I am getting a new table. I am undecided as to what size pockets to get.

If I go with 4.5" I think that they will be too easy. However if I go with 4.25" I think that it changes the game or better said changes the way I play as some shots become too hard to play with sidespin or speed.

Now, I know that part of this is because I am not a great player so what would work for a pro doesn't apply to me and probably never will.

Other than the bar tables I owned which I had the pockets tightened up on I have never owned a nine footer with anything but the standard pockets that they cam with.

So, what's your advice AZ Community?

Those of you who have really tight pockets......has it helped your game? Do you find that when you go to a place with looser pockets that you can still play the rails and cheat the pockets much easier after practicing on tight pockets where those shots are much harder if not nearly impossible.

And how about shims vs. lengthening the cushion.

For all my years in pool and despite the fact that I have recovered about ten tables I am really ignorant of which one of these methods is better and why.
Click to expand...

John what kind of table are you getting? I would go with 4.5" and do the rail extension. Heres a link on some good info on extending sub rails and cushions.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=60868
 
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John,

Didn't see what brand table you're buying. If it is a Diamond Pro, leave it alone! My suggestion is contact either Glen (realkingcobra) or Ernesto. Regardless of what you buy, they'll make the table perfect. I obviouly trust their judgement! JMHO from seeing their work. Lots of other good table mechanics out there.

Making balls in a pocket is much more than how tight the pockets are. The rail rubbers, rail height, pocket angles, dimensions, pocket liners / shims and slate depth (shelf) all play a part. If you trust Greg Sullivan, go with "his" standard Pro pockets.

Lyn
 
I play pretty regularly on a friends GC IV with 4.25 inch pockets and it definately changes the way you play...
You can say goodbye to cheating pockets off the rail, but it does tighten your game up. After shootin on other tables, whenever I go there it takes about 20 minutes to adjust but its definately worth it.
As long as you are prepared for the initial frustration, it will help you drain everything on a table with buckets.

Joe
 
JB Cases said:
Ok, so in a few weeks I am getting a new table. I am undecided as to what size pockets to get.

If I go with 4.5" I think that they will be too easy. However if I go with 4.25" I think that it changes the game or better said changes the way I play as some shots become too hard to play with sidespin or speed.

Now, I know that part of this is because I am not a great player so what would work for a pro doesn't apply to me and probably never will.

Other than the bar tables I owned which I had the pockets tightened up on I have never owned a nine footer with anything but the standard pockets that they cam with.

So, what's your advice AZ Community?

Those of you who have really tight pockets......has it helped your game? Do you find that when you go to a place with looser pockets that you can still play the rails and cheat the pockets much easier after practicing on tight pockets where those shots are much harder if not nearly impossible.

And how about shims vs. lengthening the cushion.

For all my years in pool and despite the fact that I have recovered about ten tables I am really ignorant of which one of these methods is better and why.
Click to expand...

John, it's a no brainer. If it's available to you, get tight pockets and full length gum rubber cushions. This tightens up your game and makes cheating the pocket a bad idea, so you have to pay a lot more attention to angles.

An improperly cut pocket is what causes a ball to spit out - it's not the size.

The size I recommend is 4 1/4 corners on a shallow shelf or 4 1/2 on a deep shelf. Properly cut there is not a single shot that is taken away - and I've proved this over and over again on the table.

Out here, Ernesto cuts the pockets at 45 degree angles - so if the front is 4 1/4 so is the back. You can fire a ball down the rail at near break shot speed - and if it hits within the point - it will drop.

Side pockets should not be less than 5" opening or you will take away a lot of shots. On my table the sides are 5" and they taper to 4" pockets. I had a table that was a smaller opening but you had to baby shots to the side and severe angle shots were impossible.

Practicing on buckets makes for a sloppy game. It took me years to break all the bad habits I learned from playing on buckets. There are better ways to get shape than to cheat pockets.

Chris
 
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i like 4.25, they are tight but playable and you will feel like a god on most regular tables after even a few hours of play. no shims - extend the subrails. if you need more info contact mark gregory perfectpocketz - or glen realkingcobra, and they will help you make a decision. if you want i have pics of a gold crown 5 mark did here in GA. i can show you. i have posted them here somewhere before.
 
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