Pocket size?

[Bavafongoul]

Have you ever played on a Diamond with Pro-Cut 4.5" pockets? Especially with cloth broken in? If not, it is about 5 times harder than the tables you just described. No lie. Valley tables actually have very small pockets at the mouth, I think actually less than 4.5". But the shelf is super short, and the pocket facing angle is much different than a diamond. It is almost obtuse, where as Diamond (and Brunswick commercial tables) are acute. These factors make the tables on bar box Valley night and day easier than a Diamond.

On commercial tables, such as Diamond 7' or 9', or Brunswick GC (not Brunswick home tables), even if you go with a 5" pocket, it will play way, way tougher than a Valley with much smaller pockets, due to the slate shelf and angles.

Strongly recommend if you go Diamond to get a League Cut Pocket, which is 4.75", unless you know for sure what its like to play on a Diamond.

Like I originally expressed, play for your own expectations and enjoyment.
It’s exactly why I wouldn’t get a Diamond table. I really don’t like the rails.

There are so many other options out there for that price range new or used.
Practice helps to improve your stroke regardless of the table’s pocket size.

 

[Willowbrook Wolfy]

Now does anyone know the exact reason professional tables initially went to 4.5” cp? Was it to make regular shots harder in general or was it mostly to take away a pocket on 8 ball safeties? The only game you’d really need two balls to fit is 8 ball.

 

[Nyquil]

To each his own. I spent 15 years in the pool hall playing on mostly 4.75" (double shim) and 4.5" (triple shim) GC's. Those were the gambling tables. We never played in the back which were the 5" banger tables. 15 years later I got my first home table, a GC4, with the factory 5" pocket (single shim). I have zero issues going to the triple shimmed pool hall gambling table. But my home play is more enjoyable, and I can let you my stroke more often.

^^^^.
Play with what makes you happy. I would venture to guess at least over half of us that play on our home tables play solely at home and do it just for a hobby. If you get something super tight it will be frustrating. Unless you are planning on playing for cash a lot, leagues, tournaments etc I wouldn't get super tight pockets. Especially on a 9ft'er.

 

[garczar]

Now does anyone know the exact reason professional tables initially went to 4.5” cp? Was it to make regular shots harder in general or was it mostly to take away a pocket on 8 ball safeties? The only game you’d really need two balls to fit is 8 ball.

Had nothing to with 8ball. B'wick had their 'Tournament' version and Diamond has the 'ProCut'. Both were aimed at better players/pros. 5" pockets are generally what you see in a pool hall. The idea is for recreational players to have fun and come back. Putting tight tables in one's house is one thing, putting them in a pool room is ok if its just a table or two. A room full of snug 9fts. is not a good idea imo.

 

[TrxR]

Anyone have a good picture of a Diamond Pro Cut pocket as well as their 4.75 league cut?

 

[garczar]

Anyone have a good picture of a Diamond Pro Cut pocket as well as their 4.75 league cut?

Greg on his pockets:

LC would be .25" wider.

 

[rexus31]

No frustration here. If it doesn't go in, I didn't hit it good enough.

 

[MurrayNevada]

Greg on his pockets:

LC would be .25" wider.

The pockets on my Olhausen 8' are exactly as described in the video garczar posted. Yet i do have some rattle. I don't know if Olhausen has tried to remedy the problem but it is still there albeit less than their older tables. If the pockets are the same as the Diamond pockets in the video why would there a difference in accepting balls?

 

[garczar]

The pockets on my Olhausen 8' are exactly as described in the video garczar posted. Yet i do have some rattle. I don't know if Olhausen has tried to remedy the problem but it is still there albeit less than their older tables. If the pockets are the same as the Diamond pockets in the video why would there a difference in accepting balls?

IIRC the Olhausen issue stems from the downward angle of the pocket facings. https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/diamond-pro-cut-vs-olhausen-rattle.181206/

 

[rexus31]

Greg on his pockets:

LC would be .25" wider.

His measuring technique is flawed in may ways.

 

[rexus31]

IIRC the Olhausen issue stems from the downward angle of the pocket facings. https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/diamond-pro-cut-vs-olhausen-rattle.181206/

The pocket opening angle is the main culprit in the "Olhausen Rattle". It is much too wide from the factory.

 

[TrxR]

His measuring technique is flawed in may ways.

How is it flawed?

 

[rexus31]

How is it flawed?

He's eyeballing 1/32nd and determining the gap between the balls is 1/16th? C'mon. I agree the tape measure is not the best tool for the job. A metal ruler is the best tool for the job.

 

[boogieman]

The pockets on my Olhausen 8' are exactly as described in the video garczar posted. Yet i do have some rattle. I don't know if Olhausen has tried to remedy the problem but it is still there albeit less than their older tables. If the pockets are the same as the Diamond pockets in the video why would there a difference in accepting balls?

The angles are too wide, I think BCA calls for 141 plus or minus 1 degree, Olhausens are like 144-145. The ball deflects outward into the other shallow angle and back out onto the table. The pocket facings they use are super thin and super soft. RKC said you can eliminate most of the rattle by using 60 durometer neoprene facings. I had to do more with mine since the angles were not consistent, but the neoprene made the pockets play more like a regular table instead of a rattle machine. If you have the rails recovered it's a very simple job for the mechanic to install new facings. I think this would solve 75% of the problem with nothing but an easy routine job that any mechanic can do.

 

[Hoogaar]

small pockets to me at least is like raising the hoop on a basketball court in yur driveway. it might make your shotmaking improve for a while but lots of other things lose out as you are always missing .
and a big part of pool is getting position by fudging the pockets. on tight pockets that goes out.
and forcing the cue ball over and across doesnt work very well on tight pockets not because it wont go but because you miss all the time doing it.

100% agree with this.

I had never measured them, but way back in the day, our home room league tables were 8' custom Dufferins. The tightest tables anyone in the city every played on. The corners were cut "straight" - the mouth was the same size as the inside of the pocket, and the shelf must have been like 2.5" - definitely more than the width of a ball.

Every time visiting teams played on our tables for the first time, it was a guaranteed night of complaining, and usually not many Ws for them. For those of us who always played on these tables, we all became pretty good potters, but there are shots that we just no longer could do - like a medium/strong draw straight down the rail. Was basically impossible on that table.

When we played out, it felt like we were shooting into peach baskets, but we all looked more like we were playing Chinese 8 ball honestly.

 

[ChrisinNC]

If you were buying a new 9' table what size pockets would you get? 4.5", 4.25" or 4.125"

Thanks

The PFA (pocket facing angle) is certainly at least as important as the mouth measurement. Of course what skill level player you are is a factor, but I would suggest 4.5 inch mouths with a PFA of 141° to 142°, just a slightly more forgiving PFA than Diamond tour specs.

 

[Straightpool_99]

If you can try the table, set up a shot where the cue ball is one half balls width off the long rail at the baulk line. The object ball is one half balls width from the long rail by the spot. Shoot the shot, making the ball and draw the cue ball back to baulk. If you can't do it consistently the table is too tight for you. If nobody can do it, the table belongs in a landfill.

 

[Nyquil]

Anyone have a good picture of a Diamond Pro Cut pocket as well as their 4.75 league cut?

Here is the 4.75 leagues I have. I wouldn't go tighter than 4.5's on a diamond imo. Match room pool had 4.25's this year and they looked to play pretty tough. Diamonds play tougher in general so just keep that in mind.

 

[jtompilot]

Here is the 4.75 leagues I have. I wouldn't go tighter than 4.5's on a diamond imo. Match room pool had 4.25's this year and they looked to play pretty tough. Diamonds play tougher in general so just keep that in mind.

Will those two balls drop together into the pocket? I don’t think so, although it looks a tad larger than the ProAms I played at in the Skinny Bob’s tournament. The only tight table in the joint was being used by hacks.

 

[Korsakoff]

I have a 9' Diamond Paragon delivered directly from the factory September 2020. I was just beginning again after 25 years off from serious playing. I played on the old stock 9' Gold Crown 3s in the 1980s and 1990s. I ordered 4.75" as I felt I needed a bit of room to get my aim and stroke back. I like the way it plays, and experienced casual players enjoy it, too.