Pockets are non-forgiving....

mattman

mattman

Registered User
Silver Member
I recently, about 4 months ago, had my rails re-cushioned and clothed. They cut the rails back to the most outer limits per regulation. I believe right around 5.25". Yes....that is large, but here is my question. Since the pockets are so large...meaning that the rails are cut back at such a wide angle...this would cause the pockets less forgiving..unless you hit the ball in the throat of the pocket...right?

Is there a way to cure this without having to replace the cushions and cloth again?

I have had the table for the last 12 years, but it was broke down the last 10 because lack of space and I don't ever remember the pockets to be this least forgiving. FYI...the table is a Gold Crown III. The cushions are orginal brunswick cushions. I also had the cushion facings replaced...could it be this?

It's frustrating when you hit a ball with medium to fast speed and it just "rattles" in the pocket when on any other table (bar table) it will accept the ball.

At a lost,
Matt
 
Let me get this straight... You have 5.25" pockets and are ahving trouble getting balls to fall? :D

Russ
 
I'm thinking the same thing as well, as I would've thought that it would be better to have 4 - 4 1/2" pockets for practicing on :)

Willie
 
Russ Chewning said:
Let me get this straight... You have 5.25" pockets and are ahving trouble getting balls to fall? :D

Russ
Click to expand...
Yeah....funny uh? My theory is this. Since the pockets are wider....the angle of the cushions are wider, so when the ball strikes the inside cushion facing, they are more likely to "rattle" in the pocket than a smaller pocket which would cause the ball to bounce towards the pocket more...make sense?

TheWizard said:
Matt, I'm wondering what material are the facings? :)

Willie
Click to expand...
A rubber of some sort. I bought them from an online billiard supply store....I think it was Muellers.
 
My thoughts exactly! Dam, my pockets are 4-1/16th!!

Must be the cue!! :D

-von

Russ Chewning said:
Let me get this straight... You have 5.25" pockets and are ahving trouble getting balls to fall? :D

Russ
Click to expand...
 
mattman said:
A rubber of some sort. I bought them from an online billiard supply store....I think it was Muellers.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought, rubber based facings all give this same problem, that if you play any ball into the pocket at high speed, generally they will rattle more because of the extra rebound the ball experiences from the rubber based material.

The best thing that I can recommend, (although it's probably not what you would like to hear) is to get wooden facings and put them on instead, but put double facings on, as it is much better for you as a player to practice on tighter pockets, practicing on buckets is not going to do your playing any favours.

A british company BCE, has their own branded american tables with rubber based facings and they are nothing short of a royal pain in the twin air bags :) lol, they got some of those BCE tables in the room I play at, and they're definitely not a popular table with the better players, simply because of how the facings react :) (And also because their ball return system sucks)

Either way I hope that you can get it sorted :)

Willie
 
Your problem is your practicing on pockets that are ridiculously big. Buy some practice pro pocket reducers (you can get them on ebay). That should shim up the pockets nice and tight. By the way I admire you for the fact that you posted you have problems pocketing balls on a table with 5 freaking inch pockets.
 
Gold Crown pockets have huge mouths. They can also have huge 2.25" shelves. These big shelves will rattle out just about anything that isn't just about a dead sink. They may look big, they may measure big, but they can play very tight.
 
I don't have a huge problem pocketing balls. When I aim for the throat of the pocket....I hit it. What is so frustrating is when I want to "cheat" the pocket by hitting the inside cushion, or the facing, the ball rattles. Don't get me wrong though, smaller pockets would definetely help improve anybody's game.

As far as wooden facings....never heard of such a thing.
 
i understand, when your shooting at one side of the pocket to build an angle and hit the shim(witch isnt there-because the pockets are huge) the ball stands up, right? It could be the pockets are too deep. it rattles from one side to the other but dosent go foward enough to fall in. You need to talk to a mechnic and see what can be done, your not doing yourself any favors playing with 5" pockets. Playing with pockets set up for 1P dosent help much with 9-ball because if you have to hit the heart of the pocket everytime that limits your shots too much, but 5" is too big.


In Lodi they opened a pool room in 88(i think) with huge pockets that were so deep(the shelves were MUCH deeper than a GC) it was possible to set a ball 1/4" maybe deeper behind the edge of the cushion and the ball would just sit there, if the ball was deep enough in the pocket you couldnt make the ball and get the rock back to the end of the table, if you hit rail first they would both go in or you would miss completely, those tables were the worst. they shimmedd them and they went from bad to worse, they were like tunnels you couldnt hit the side of the object ball and roll out of the pocket.
 
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I have a mechanic coming to recloth the table in a month or so.....I will discuss my problem with them.

Thanks for the help everyone. I have been wanting to start this thread, but just now getting around to it.

Matt
 
mattman said:
I recently, about 4 months ago, had my rails re-cushioned and clothed. They cut the rails back to the most outer limits per regulation. I believe right around 5.25". Yes....that is large, but here is my question. Since the pockets are so large...meaning that the rails are cut back at such a wide angle...this would cause the pockets less forgiving..unless you hit the ball in the throat of the pocket...right?

Is there a way to cure this without having to replace the cushions and cloth again?

I have had the table for the last 12 years, but it was broke down the last 10 because lack of space and I don't ever remember the pockets to be this least forgiving. FYI...the table is a Gold Crown III. The cushions are orginal brunswick cushions. I also had the cushion facings replaced...could it be this?

It's frustrating when you hit a ball with medium to fast speed and it just "rattles" in the pocket when on any other table (bar table) it will accept the ball.

At a lost,
Matt
Click to expand...

I have a 9 Ft Brunswick Heritage which is a Gold Crown but with the old style look of drop leather pockets. The pockets look like buckets and everyone things it will be a easy table to play on. The angle of the facing will make the ball rattle the pocket and not drop in. The first time I played on a tight pocket Diamond I was surprised that the pockets sucked the balls in like a vacuum.

It made me learn how to shoot soft. This really helps when I play on another table. Sometimes it appears as if the OB will not make it to the pocket but the balls always drop in while the ball bangers miss on those bar tables.
 
Mattman,

I'd explain your situation to the mechanic who is comming to recloth your table, maybe like a week before he comes out so its fresh in his head.

Also tell him you want the pockets tighter, and tell him how big they are now and how big you'd like them to be. 4.5inches should be just fine for you, or something close to a Pro-am cut on Diamond tables.
 
mattman said:
I have a mechanic coming to recloth the table in a month or so.....I will discuss my problem with them.

Thanks for the help everyone. I have been wanting to start this thread, but just now getting around to it.

Matt
Click to expand...


do what it takes to do it right, over time its not expensive, 5" pockets isnt the way foward. you dont need triple shimmed one pocket's either, its good for 1P but not learning to play run out 9-ball. best of luck
 
Russ Chewning said:
Let me get this straight... You have 5.25" pockets and are ahving trouble getting balls to fall? :D

Russ
Click to expand...
Same sentiments. Isn't it easier when the pockets are bigger? Can't really figure out the physics..
 
TheBook said:
I have a 9 Ft Brunswick Heritage which is a Gold Crown but with the old style look of drop leather pockets. The pockets look like buckets and everyone things it will be a easy table to play on. The angle of the facing will make the ball rattle the pocket and not drop in. The first time I played on a tight pocket Diamond I was surprised that the pockets sucked the balls in like a vacuum.
Click to expand...

Some people that only shoot on tight-pocketed tables can't seem to grasp this concept. I have been there and done that. When I ordered my table I was so excited about it that the pocket size never entered my mind when choosing the options and I ended up with 5" pockets on my Brunswick Bradford. I get a lot of "jawed" balls too when I shoot too hard and don't hit dead center, or I try to "cheat" the pocket. I shoot on 9' Gold Crowns from time to time and I never seem to have this problem either. Just like you stated, it seems like the smaller pockets just suck the balls in better. It's not that difficult to rationalize that pockets with wider-angled jaws would not as easily accept a ball as would pockets with jaws of a lesser angle. Anybody that can figure out simple Geometry should be able to see this IMO. Hitting the inside of the jaw on a pocket with a wide-angled jaw would naturally throw the ball at more of an angle toward the playing surface rather than into the center of the pocket.
FWIW, I don't feel the 5" pockets on my table hinder my pool shooting abilities whatsoever. I adapt to tables with tighter pockets well, even to the point to where I can say that I shoot just as well on them as I do my own table. I can remember on many occasion while shooting on a Gold Crown saying "That shot wouldn't have went in on my table". True, whether you want to believe it or not.

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
Some people that only shoot on tight-pocketed tables can't seem to grasp this concept. I have been there and done that. When I ordered my table I was so excited about it that the pocket size never entered my mind when choosing the options and I ended up with 5" pockets on my Brunswick Bradford. I get a lot of "jawed" balls too when I shoot too hard and don't hit dead center, or I try to "cheat" the pocket. I shoot on 9' Gold Crowns from time to time and I never seem to have this problem either. Just like you stated, it seems like the smaller pockets just suck the balls in better. It's not that difficult to rationalize that pockets with wider-angled jaws would not as easily accept a ball as would pockets with jaws of a lesser angle. Anybody that can figure out simple Geometry should be able to see this IMO. Hitting the inside of the jaw on a pocket with a wide-angled jaw would naturally throw the ball at more of an angle toward the playing surface rather than into the center of the pocket.
FWIW, I don't feel the 5" pockets on my table hinder my pool shooting abilities whatsoever. I adapt to tables with tighter pockets well, even to the point to where I can say that I shoot just as well on them as I do my own table. I can remember on many occasion while shooting on a Gold Crown saying "That shot wouldn't have went in on my table". True, whether you want to believe it or not.

Maniac
Click to expand...

Tap, tap. I don't think Mattman was looking to get beat up for his pocket size, just looking for possible solutions to the problem. I have a similar issue with my table but instead of jawing I get a lot of bounce outs on shots down the rail because of the flatter angle coming out of the pockets. I too don't want to mess with it because I just had the table recovered about 2 years ago but if I ever do I think I'll try to shim the rails differently
 
StrokeofLuck said:
Tap, tap. I don't think Mattman was looking to get beat up for his pocket size, just looking for possible solutions to the problem. I have a similar issue with my table but instead of jawing I get a lot of bounce outs on shots down the rail because of the flatter angle coming out of the pockets. I too don't want to mess with it because I just had the table recovered about 2 years ago but if I ever do I think I'll try to shim the rails differently
Click to expand...
i have the same problem with an olhausen grand champion. i am having it recovered monday and wanted to get the pockets shimmed so that the edges were parallel. while talking to the mechanic he informed me that the only thing that could be done was to add facings. he explained that the only way to change the angles, he would have to recut the whole rail, wood included and then add a bunch of facings to bulid it out. after that the rail would not play true in those refaced areas. apparently they dont make facings or shims that are wider on one end and thinner on the other for the purpose of reangles. i find that the pockets are bigger than bar tables but reject a lot more balls. i am definatley having the sides tightened and i am on the fence about the corners.
 
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