Poll: Do you like a cue with "feedback?

[alstl]

Someone asked Earl why he wears gloves on both hands and big wrap on his cue. He answered he doesn't like to feel the cue.

I own two cues, one a Woodworth with a 3/8 x 10 flat faced joint, lots of feedback on the hit. The other is a Schon, piloted steel and not nearly as much feedback.

Which do you prefer, lots of feedback or not?

 

[ShootingArts]

why all the cue builders stay in business!

Someone asked Earl why he wears gloves on both hands and big wrap on his cue. He answered he doesn't like to feel the cue.

I own two cues, one a Woodworth with a 3/8 x 10 flat faced joint, lots of feedback on the hit. The other is a Schon, piloted steel and not nearly as much feedback.

Which do you prefer, lots of feedback or not?

I hate a cue that feels dead but I'd rather play with it than one that hums like a tuning fork every time I hit a ball. Somewhere in between the two is the right cue for me. It gives a gentle feedback. That "right for me" varies with every player and is what keeps all the cue builders in business.

Hu

 

[Mikjary]

I used to love the feel of the older Meuccis. I could spin the paint off of the cue ball and tell by the feel of the cue how much english I had used. It was a real weapon on the bar boxes.

I bought a Szamboti cue many years ago from a guy that needed the money. It was a year or two wait if you ordered one from Gus, so I jumped on it. I played with it for a month or so, but had no luck getting it to do what I wanted it to do. It was dead compared to my Meucci and I only used it for 14.1 games.

So, I ended up selling it to somebody else and they ended up selling it after a short while, too. They confided in me that the cue looked great, but hit like a broomstick! I wish I would have kept it. Who knew? :sorry:

Best,
Mike

 

[Celtic]

I cannot stand cues that fire back a ton of feedback. In effect they feel like a cue with a loose tip/ferrule or shooting pool with a break tip on your shooter.

 

[alstl]

I hate a cue that feels dead but I'd rather play with it than one that hums like a tuning fork every time I hit a ball. Somewhere in between the two is the right cue for me. It gives a gentle feedback. That "right for me" varies with every player and is what keeps all the cue builders in business.

Hu

What do you think makes the difference? Joint, shaft taper, tip combination of things?

 

[angldemn]

I don't know if I'm using the term feedback correctly, but I really like the feel of shooting with a break cue(samsara leather tip.) It's a nice sharp ping that feels like hitting the sweet spot of a baseball bat or golf club. Also I can apply minimal effort to send the ball where I want it.

If I could get a decent amount of spin off it I'd play with it all the time.

Anyone know of a cue like that?

 

[sfleinen]

Someone asked Earl why he wears gloves on both hands and big wrap on his cue. He answered he doesn't like to feel the cue.

I own two cues, one a Woodworth with a 3/8 x 10 flat faced joint, lots of feedback on the hit. The other is a Schon, piloted steel and not nearly as much feedback.

Which do you prefer, lots of feedback or not?

Al:

Since you brought up the joint, related to feedback of hit, you're probably going to get some differences in viewpoint about what constitutes a "hard" vs. a "soft" hit. But the joint does play a crucial role in how it "allows" the feedback (read: resonance, vibrations) to travel up from the shaft, through to the butt of the cue. A wood-to-wood joint is always the best to allow that resonance/vibrations to travel undisturbed through to the butt. A stainless steel block joint is the worst. The reason is the difference in mass between the two materials -- the denser stainless steel acts like a "shield" and reflects that resonance/vibrations back down the shaft.

So a cue with a "hard" hit is one where you feel all the vibrations of the hit, much like an economy car with stiff struts where the hit of everything on the road travels up through the car to you (read: uncomfortable, in this case). A cue with a "soft" hit is one that shields you from those vibrations -- like an old-boat Cadillac with a great/luxury suspension system lets you feel like you are "floating" along the road.

Some folks prefer the "hard" hit -- I do. Others prefer the "soft" hit. Of course, a heck of a LOT more goes into the hit of a cue than just the joint, but the joint *does* play a crucial role.

I hate a cue that feels dead but I'd rather play with it than one that hums like a tuning fork every time I hit a ball. Somewhere in between the two is the right cue for me. It gives a gentle feedback. That "right for me" varies with every player and is what keeps all the cue builders in business.

Hu

Hu:

I know what you mean -- I have a couple cues just like that, and they literally -- no joke -- make a resounding "pongggg" sound after the hit. Please don't laugh at me, but I fixed that with a LimbSaver -- it worked like a charm, and applied just enough vibrations dampening, to make the hit of the cue s-w-e-e-t. Just right!

-Sean

 

[ShootingArts]

tough question

What do you think makes the difference? Joint, shaft taper, tip combination of things?

That is a simple little question that is extremely tough to answer. When one thing is way out of the range of other things it has a large effect. Otherwise everything up to and including the bumper has an effect. I need a bit unusual bumper for one of my cues. Keep meaning to order one but I don't need anything else so I haven't gotten around to it. I'm not big on slamming cues down on the floor and the cue missing a bumper is pretty old and ratty so I don't particularly need the bumper for protection however it and a cue I "borrow" a bumper from when using that one hit too differently with and without a bumper to shoot without one.

The general theory is the closer to the impact point with the cue ball the more something affects the hit. Tip, the oft overlooked ferrule, shaft, joint and collars, forearm, handle and wrap, and the bumper or lack of bumper. No surprise that I agree with Sean, the bumper or limbsaver can certainly change the hit. Tips obviously can, as can the joint. Interestingly almost invisible and extremely difficult to feel changes in the taper of a shaft can have a huge effect on the hit. The original properties of the wood or laminates of the shaft often have a huge amount to do with hit. As I think most will agree, two seemingly identical shafts with the same tips, ferrules, and joints can have vastly different hits.

I really think that when we play with the shafts with many laminations that we are playing more with the splices than the wood, a synthetic shaft. The wood provides the bulk and the contact surface for our bridge but the splices provide the support structure. Note this is opinion, I have never tried to prove this by carefully controlled testing. Tough to do since one plain wood shaft can vary so much from the next. The best wooden shafts, no laminates, have been reported to have 3% or less variance in radial consistency. I doubt many laminates including the pie slice style test much better than that or that a difference that small affects many shots or the feel of a cue in any way.

I have been wanting to build a cue with just enough collar material on it to protect the wood at the joint in order to test wood to wood hit and how other materials transfer feel. Think collars that are only maybe a tenth of an inch thick in each dimension, more rings than collars. One more project it seems I will never get around to.

A pad or very short ferrule works just fine to protect a shaft too so experiements with ferrules could yield interesting results. High speed photography shows that some ferrules bend and give far more than I would ever have imagined. Ferrules need far more consideration than we usually give them.

You asked a simple question, believe it or not this is the short version of my answer!

Hu

 

[Bob Callahan]

But the joint does play a crucial role in how it "allows" the feedback (read: resonance, vibrations) to travel up from the shaft, through to the butt of the cue. A wood-to-wood joint is always the best to allow that resonance/vibrations to travel undisturbed through to the butt. A stainless steel block joint is the worst. The reason is the difference in mass between the two materials -- the denser stainless steel acts like a "shield" and reflects that resonance/vibrations back down the shaft.
-Sean

This certainly sounds good from a physics standpoint, since the speed of sound in regular maple is 4110 m/s (probably a bit higher in hard rock maple) and in stainless steel is 5790 m/s, which should give rise to a slight impedance mismatch, but it doesn't actually seem to make a difference.

Quoting myself from an earlier thread:

I've played with almost every type listed, and can't tell a difference--but apparently most other people can't, either:

John McChesney
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
From: "John McChesney" <j...@texasexpress.com>
Date: 1999/06/14

Subject: Re: Metal joint VS wood to wood joint?

Here's something interesting we tried in 1991:

At an event we had 16 cues with the butt, joint and the ferrules covered with masking tape...then numbered. No one could "see" if the cue was a steel, plastic or wood joint (as in a Pete), nor detect by the style of ferrule. We had 70 players...each hit balls with the cues throughout the weekend.

The results:

Of nearly 800 attempts over the time period, the players guessed wrong
about what type joint was in the cue more than 7 out of 10 times.​

From: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.billiard/msg/3a4dbd5e53265c42

This is the thread: What type of joint do you prefer?

 

[ronscuba]

Does a cue with more feedback make it easier to control/predict the speed of the CB ?

Do stiff/firm hit cues give more feedback than a soft hit cue ? I imagine tip softness/hardness plays a role in how soft or firm the hit feels.

 

[StrokeofLuck]

Just throwing it out there but how do we know Earl is talking about feedback and maybe is just referring to not liking to feel the cue itself? I would think with all of the modifications he's had done to that lance he could have had the maker deaden the feedback to virtually nothing.