Poll, with video, legitimate beef, sharking, or...

[Mickey Qualls]

No worries bud, we're all here to discuss things and this one (and the different views on it) are pretty interesting.

Cool . Sometimes the written word can be read in the wrong context. I wanted to be sure I didn't come across as an antagonistic troll.

Well, I can see where you are going here, and I might agree, but even if he didn't know who Rich was (and how he played) he did just play 12 games in a row against the guy, and he had to have noticed that his opponent played fantastic position and had tons of control on the cb....so I don't see how he could have seen that shot attempt and NOT known it was going for the side. In other words, even without seeing him line it up (which was about as obvious as it gets), looking at the way the shot was hit and the speed...I would think anyone would know it was an attempt for the side. And Vidal shoots pretty sporty himself, so it isn't like he's a confused hacker himself with no idea what someone is doing at the table. I just think it was sour grapes after he got snagged on the 3 ball shot earlier.

I'll buy into that. I don't know if I have the patience to watch that entire match, but I can definetly see what you're sayin'.

Being at the table gives one a different perspective than sitting on the sideline. For me, I think the hat's shot on the 5 ball was the incorrect shot to take. The 4 (to me) was an obvious shot. But when it comes to the 5, I figure A) why play position for the combo, B) it's risky drawing near that side pocket, and C) you have to force the cueball to do the work.

If I'm at the table, I'm playing the 5 in the upper LEFT corner with maybe a hair of low right, the cueball coming off the rail above the 6 & 7 (I'm not forcing anything here, it's natural position), giving me the 6 in the lower right corner. A touch of low left playing the six gives me the 7 in the side, etc, etc.

So (for me), if I see this guy play the 5 differently than I would, that could lead me to wonder what he's gonna do with the 6. I'm scratchin' my head wondering if he intended to set up for the combo or not. Maybe hill-hill is gettin' to him, and messin' with his game now.
Then I watch the hat line the combo up with his cue, stare at it for a couple seconds, bend over, stand up and glance at the combo again, bend over, and shoot.
So before he leans down the second time, I'm gonna ask him to clarify what shot he's playin'.

Only the shooter knows what he's doing. And after watching the video a few times, there's a funny sound when he hits the cueball for the 6-7. It's hard to tell where that sound comes from, so who knows if it's possibly a miscue on this table or another, or a completely different sound altogether.

Here's the (roughly) four minute section in the hill-hill match :
3 Ball....Did it hit a Rail? Was the Combo call Unsportsman Like?

Absolutely, without being right there (and hearing audio ) it is tough to say for sure.

It would be cool if, in the future, the players on the TV table were wired with a microphone :thumbup:.

I agree with you, but you know how these things go: both players are playing friendly, not calling ticky-tack kind of stuff like that (note rule is apparently EVERY shot must be called, but had not been played that way entire match) until one of them sees the match about to end for them and suddenly gets upset/serious about it.

Oh, I hear you there. I've seen as well as been involved with that kind of ticky-tack stuff. It's almost like people get p***ed off because you called them on something and kept them honest.

Agreeing with you here for sure!

Cool . It's good to know that not only can we share the same opinion on parts of this topic, but can have different views and discuss them with civility :thumbup:.

 

[alstl]

I'm calling foul.:angry:

..you deleted the guy on roller skates

just admit it Al...you'll feel better

That would have been a video which would have gone viral. Old guy on roller skates gets his butt kicked by a buffalo.

 

[Spider1]

Cool . Sometimes the written word can be read in the wrong context. I wanted to be sure I didn't come across as an antagonistic troll.

Not at all!

It would be cool if, in the future, the players on the TV table were wired with a microphone :thumbup:

Honestly, this will probably be unpopular, but: I would love it if you could get a pool feed with the players mic-ed and no commentator. I realize half the time (or more) it would just be dead silent, but sometimes there are things like this that come up that would be entertaining to listen to, or players like Keith or Alex who would be a blast to listen to interacting with their opponent and the crowd. Nothing against those two announcers on the video, they were pretty darn good, just something I have thought before watching some recorded matches.

Cool . It's good to know that not only can we share the same opinion on parts of this topic, but can have different views and discuss them with civility :thumbup:.

Cheers bud, 'agree to disagree while being civil on the internet'...unheard of! :thumbup:

 

[dogginda9]

IMO. Weak move trying to call foul on the combo. Earlier the 3 ball did not hit a rail so no need to be pissy over that. IMO.

 

[The Renfro]

Thanks for pointing this out... And as far as Marc having people able to step up and vouch for his character that is rendered mute by his actions at the table... It's 2bit, chicken shit, and unsportmanlike.... He is now on my list of people who if on fire and blocking entrance to the men's room I will step over with a full bladder.....

Sport does not BUILD character... It REVEALS it....

 

[Mickey Qualls]

.........Honestly, this will probably be unpopular, but: I would love it if you could get a pool feed with the players mic-ed and no commentator........

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'unpopular'. I think it's a great idea. The commentators could throw thier comments in during the 'dead air' time, but they would have to go quiet when the players start woofing and jabberjawing.
Could be interesting. Might be worth trying once or twice. Just my $.02......

Cheers bud, 'agree to disagree while being civil on the internet'...unheard of! :thumbup:

LOL "Civil on the Internet" ? I hope we didn't open a can of worms here. Next thing you know, everybody will be doing it

 

[Mickey Qualls]

Thanks for pointing this out... And as far as Marc having people able to step up and vouch for his character that is rendered mute by his actions at the table... It's 2bit, chicken shit, and unsportmanlike.... He is now on my list of people who if on fire and blocking entrance to the men's room I will step over with a full bladder.....

Sport does not BUILD character... It REVEALS it....

I don't know any of the players involved, not defending anyone. I'm just going by what I see.
Maybe the red shirt thought, "Ok, if he can be a nit on the three, I can be a nit about the combo", or some such thing. Maybe he felt the 6 had a different pocket.
I don't know, it wasn't my match. Only the guy in the red shirt knows why he questioned the combo.

If it were me :
When it comes to the 3 ball, if I felt it was a good hit, I wouldn't have given up the table.
And if I felt that the 3 was an illegal shot, I would have picked up the CB before my opponent could question it.
I would have asked the guy in the hat what he was playing and where when he got to that 6-7.
And the hat guy should have re-iterated what and where once he stood up on the shot.

I was always taught to play the game with the same integrity you expect from your opponent. In many cases, you will draw an opponent that will do the same.
As far as the others, though, it's all on the wheel, it all comes around.

I know which one I am.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I don't know any of the players involved, not defending anyone. I'm just going by what I see.
Maybe the red shirt thought, "Ok, if he can be a nit on the three, I can be a nit about the combo", or some such thing. Maybe he felt the 6 had a different pocket.
I don't know, it wasn't my match. Only the guy in the red shirt knows why he questioned the combo.

If it were me :
When it comes to the 3 ball, if I felt it was a good hit, I wouldn't have given up the table.
And if I felt that the 3 was an illegal shot, I would have picked up the CB before my opponent could question it.
I would have asked the guy in the hat what he was playing and where when he got to that 6-7.
And the hat guy should have re-iterated what and where once he stood up on the shot.

I was always taught to play the game with the same integrity you expect from your opponent. In many cases, you will draw an opponent that will do the same.
As far as the others, though, it's all on the wheel, it all comes around.

I know which one I am.

Well said, Mickey. I would only add that in regard to the combo, it is more the shooters responsibility to call the shot than it is the responsibility of the opponent to ask what he is calling, if only to avoid the appearance of sharking by jumping out of your chair and disrupting the shooter to ask the call. So while I agree that if I was in the chair I would have asked what he was calling, I also would have made sure I called it if it was me that was shooting.

Having said that, while it may have been less obvious what Rich was playing before the shot (since he maybe had the bank and certainly had the corner up table available), it seemed pretty obvious after the shot simply by the way it was executed.

So while it seemed like a move to me, the shooter needs to accept at least some responsibility for the situation by not having called it up front.

As you say, the wheel goes round and round.

 

[Spider1]

Sport does not BUILD character... It REVEALS it....

Damn, I have never heard that one before...that is a sweet quote, and so, so true!

 

[rcarson]

Thanks for pointing this out... And as far as Marc having people able to step up and vouch for his character that is rendered mute by his actions at the table... It's 2bit, chicken shit, and unsportmanlike.... He is now on my list of people who if on fire and blocking entrance to the men's room I will step over with a full bladder.....

Sport does not BUILD character... It REVEALS it....

In all honestly then just about every "pool player" is on this list. I don't believe there is any player who hasn't done something like this in there pool career. I have seen Rich shark, cry, whine and argue to win a match when he was down and obviously beat (he still lost though). I have seen a hall of famer sit in his set and ***** loud enough for his opponent to hear him while he was shooting. Part of the game, shouldn't even be a poll. Keep your eyes closed and your ear muffs on so your heros can stay your heros.

 

[BradenK]

Shark and chicken shit both! Not a part of the game. I can DEFINITELY say I have never done something like this. He was pissed about the 3, saw an opening, and took it. Plain and simple. And I have a hard time believing the 3 hit a rail since he relinquished the table. Plus, the guy in the hat did not gain much at all by taking ball in hand on the three. No ref, it always goes in the shooters favor.

And it has been stated here that it was within the rules to not call obvious shots. When the guy with the hat lined up the angle with his cue behind the combo, the combo became the obvious shot.

Very true about competition revealing someone's TRUE character.

Braden

 

[Celtic]

It was a fairly gimp move by Marc, but at the same time if you have a bank or a combo then call the ball and pocket, the slightest motion indicating the shot is enough to avoid this type of stuff and continue to shoot without interuption.

The commentating on this match needed work as well, Rich ended up with enough angle on that 9 to get pretty reasonable shape, you can tell when they show the second angle, he moves his head and you can see he has a shot that requires a cut, not straight in. He actually UNDERCUT the ball to miss it. I can tell that watching the video and was wondering WTF the commentators were talking about. That type of stuff needs to be fixed in pool commentating IMO.