Pool almost dead?

Kevin3824

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was just thinking about the state of pool especially after reading a few of the recent postings.So here is the questions I have.

What are sponsors actually doing for the players it sponsors? For example if a player is sponsored by Diamond Billiards what do they get out of it other than a patch they have to wear in a tournament. Do they get a free table of their choice in their private homes? Would the sponsor pay their entry fees or travel expenses? Does the player get a fixed pay for playing with their logo on their shirt or vest?Basically what do sponsors really offer top players.

Im not asking for larger purses in general but what can we do to make pool here in america worth wile to have players traveling from Asia or other parts of the world to play here. I was very sad when I read how Efren was not going to be playing in the USA much because there was so little for him to gain from it after his expenses.

If the idea of players having sponsors is to have the players represent their product in a positive manner and effectively advertise their products. There are a lot of people out there that are knew to the sport that would simply rush out and get a cue from a manufacturer if they knew the exact model that their idol plays with. Probably thousands of Cuetec R360 cues have been sold simply because SVB plays with one. It does not mean it is the best cue on the market but if it is good enough for a world class cueist to use it than it should be for a beginner as well. Most of us know it is not the cue that makes the shot it is the person using it.
I know that when a manufacturer sponsors someone it places limitations on the equipment they use to play with. I have heard in some cases the sponsor will simply provide them with a stick or a table and a patch. If it is anything like that then I totally understand why a player would not want to be sponsored. I would rather just buy my own stuff and be able to use whatever I wanted to. There has to be more compensation than that.
It just seems to me that if the manufacturers were to pony up more for the best players and support the sport more through paid advertising of the events their sponsored players are a part of pool might actually start building up players more than ever before.

The game has been changing like Efren said with the frequency of jump cues and getting away from a lot of safety play. The use of non traditional materials is also changing it quite a bit.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was just thinking about the state of pool especially after reading a few of the recent postings.So here is the questions I have.

What are sponsors actually doing for the players it sponsors? For example if a player is sponsored by Diamond Billiards what do they get out of it other than a patch they have to wear in a tournament. Do they get a free table of their choice in their private homes? Would the sponsor pay their entry fees or travel expenses? Does the player get a fixed pay for playing with their logo on their shirt or vest?Basically what do sponsors really offer top players.

Im not asking for larger purses in general but what can we do to make pool here in america worth wile to have players traveling from Asia or other parts of the world to play here. I was very sad when I read how Efren was not going to be playing in the USA much because there was so little for him to gain from it after his expenses.

If the idea of players having sponsors is to have the players represent their product in a positive manner and effectively advertise their products. There are a lot of people out there that are knew to the sport that would simply rush out and get a cue from a manufacturer if they knew the exact model that their idol plays with. Probably thousands of Cuetec R360 cues have been sold simply because SVB plays with one. It does not mean it is the best cue on the market but if it is good enough for a world class cueist to use it than it should be for a beginner as well. Most of us know it is not the cue that makes the shot it is the person using it.
I know that when a manufacturer sponsors someone it places limitations on the equipment they use to play with. I have heard in some cases the sponsor will simply provide them with a stick or a table and a patch. If it is anything like that then I totally understand why a player would not want to be sponsored. I would rather just buy my own stuff and be able to use whatever I wanted to. There has to be more compensation than that.
It just seems to me that if the manufacturers were to pony up more for the best players and support the sport more through paid advertising of the events their sponsored players are a part of pool might actually start building up players more than ever before.

The game has been changing like Efren said with the frequency of jump cues and getting away from a lot of safety play. The use of non traditional materials is also changing it quite a bit.
Short answer: MONEY. The amount/form of payment varies wildly from player to player. Few pool related companies generate enough revenue to pay out much. Most players are happy to get entry fees and help with travel.
 

knifemakermike

Registered
I just recently got back into playing and was surprised at having only two pool halls in Pittsburgh, pa.

Pool equipment companies aren't very good at marketing vs main stream sports such as golf. It takes way to much investment in advertising versus what their profits are to make it sensible.

As far as being a pro, I just don't think the majority of pros can have sponsors, not enough revenue and limited name recognition in the mainstream.
 

mchnhed

I Came, I Shot, I Choked
Silver Member
No more dead than Billiards counterpart.... Bowling.

Actually Pool has been on a decline since the 1920's and was in real bad shape after WWII.
Yes, yes. Point out the "Golden Years" after a couple of Pool movies came out.
Pool's popularity in the 1990's was nothing compared to the wide spread popularity in the 1880's to 1920's.
 
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one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No more dead than Billiards counterpart.... Bowling.

Actually Pool has been on a decline since the 1920's and was in real bad shape after WWII.
Yes, yes. Point out the "Golden Years" after a couple of Pool movies came out.
Pool's popularity in the 1990's was nothing compared to the wide spread popularity in the 1880's to 1920's.

Pool wishes it gets to where bowling is ,, ,,

1
 

Pangit

Banned
I don't think it will ever die entirely, but it's definitely not very popular these days with the people that pay the bills for pub games in the "sporting" world.

After an eight year hiatus, The PDC held a tournament this past weekend in Las Vegas. The US Darts Masters payed the winner (Michael van Gerwen) $45,000 and he took home a loaded 2017 Ford Mustang as well.

DEpBR3ZWsAAiXVa.jpg


This week, it's the World Matchplay of Darts:

Prize Fund

Winner - £115,000
Runner-Up - £55,000
Semi-Finalists - £30,000
Quarter-Finalists - £17,500
Second Round Losers - £11,000
First Round Losers- £7,000
Total - £500,000
 
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slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You're quite right. Speaking of golf, sponsored tour pros (probably all of them are) wear oversized patches on their shirts, hats, bags that millions of TV viewers see. Titleist, Ping, etc., are all over the place, and these big companies HAVE TO spend big to get their names on the top players. How many people see the patch on a sponsored pool player's shirt? Even if a pool product company is 'good' at marketing, can we just say there's not much payback from sponsoring a pool player?

I just recently got back into playing and was surprised at having only two pool halls in Pittsburgh, pa.

Pool equipment companies aren't very good at marketing vs main stream sports such as golf. It takes way to much investment in advertising versus what their profits are to make it sensible.

As far as being a pro, I just don't think the majority of pros can have sponsors, not enough revenue and limited name recognition in the mainstream.
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
If you can get a large audience to watch, generating huge TV viewership numbers, the sponsors will come. Any and every product.

Alas, I don't see any way to have pool generate a large audience.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you can get a large audience to watch, generating huge TV viewership numbers, the sponsors will come. Any and every product.

Alas, I don't see any way to have pool generate a large audience.

I do, however it has to do with a worldwide loss of all electrical power, so let's not go there.
 

Linwood

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you can get a large audience to watch, generating huge TV viewership numbers, the sponsors will come. Any and every product.

Alas, I don't see any way to have pool generate a large audience.

It's probably illustrative to compare to soccer, and culture. To say soccer is big some parts of the world is a huge understatement. In the US not so much.

It's easy to say it is just cultural (i.e. what one grew up with), but there's more than that. Most kids in the US grow up with soccer, not football ("Soccer Mom" is a cliche; ever hear "Football Mom"?), then switch interest.

Some of it is advertising mechanics - Football has long stretches of time with nothing happening where minutes of ads fit nicely, soccer doesn't.

But I think a lot of it has to do with announcers. Basketball, Football, Baseball - all tend to get announcers who bring personality to the game, whether they are aging players pontificating, or are just amusing or interesting in themselves.

Pool doesn't just need structure and players and sponsors -- it needs some spokespeople, someone who already draws a big audience to focus some attention there. An actor, pro ball player of some sort switching interest, even a late night comedian. Someone who could themselves be part of the draw, but more than anything else be part of the continuity for a while.

Think Howard Cosell. Google "most famous sports commentators" and see how many names you know, even if you don't watch those sports.

Don't know how you get such a person, but to get an audience and TV time and sponsors, you need some personalities, and not just players.
 

klone

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nah, 2017 has proven so far to be a good year for the sport... Exciting tournaments (pros and juniors), higher online viewership numbers, new room openings, etc.

Keep up the good work - players and promoters alike!
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And why doesnt anyone whittle anymore?

You never hear about it, but it used to be commonplace to.

Pool is a hobby for virtually everyone who does it. Some have learned to make a living off society's crumbs.

It isnt in a bad place, it just isnt that big a deal for the real world.
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's probably illustrative to compare to soccer, and culture. To say soccer is big some parts of the world is a huge understatement. In the US not so much.

It's easy to say it is just cultural (i.e. what one grew up with), but there's more than that. Most kids in the US grow up with soccer, not football ("Soccer Mom" is a cliche; ever hear "Football Mom"?), then switch interest.

Some of it is advertising mechanics - Football has long stretches of time with nothing happening where minutes of ads fit nicely, soccer doesn't.

But I think a lot of it has to do with announcers. Basketball, Football, Baseball - all tend to get announcers who bring personality to the game, whether they are aging players pontificating, or are just amusing or interesting in themselves.

Pool doesn't just need structure and players and sponsors -- it needs some spokespeople, someone who already draws a big audience to focus some attention there. An actor, pro ball player of some sort switching interest, even a late night comedian. Someone who could themselves be part of the draw, but more than anything else be part of the continuity for a while.

Think Howard Cosell. Google "most famous sports commentators" and see how many names you know, even if you don't watch those sports.

Don't know how you get such a person, but to get an audience and TV time and sponsors, you need some personalities, and not just players.

You raise a very good point and actually over here in the UK that is exactly what happened with darts and pool.

There was an eccentric commentator by the name of Sid Waddell who sadly died in 2012, but his enthusiasm and seemingly random one liners played a huge part in growing darts in particular in the UK (and to an extent the Mosconi Cup and other pool events shown here as he commentated on those too).
 

philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think the popularity or lack of popularity of pool is regional. I find that the larger cities and their suburbs have quite a few very good rooms and 9 footers. It seems from what I have gathered from this forum that the mid and upper western states play bar box.

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that poolrooms have been on the decline since the turn of the century and from what I have read, this is true.
 

wahcheck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
never die

This subject keeps popping up every so often: POOL WILL NEVER DIE...
You can talk about lack of tournaments, pool halls,sponsors, professional tours and tournaments and how they are few and far between, but the game itself will live as long as man is still around to play games.
 

M.G.

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This subject keeps popping up every so often: POOL WILL NEVER DIE...

Should you be able to live off pool playing? Most probably not.
Should you find action and crap? Most probably not.
Hustling? Please die now.

A nice game with friends or acquaintances that enjoy playing? Yes.
Kids playing it and asking for help? For sure.
Small tournament for a barbeque or something? Absolutely, do it!

In my area a lot of young kids are trying it out, even girls.
Or older people, showing patience and concentration. And being friendly.

Just great.

Cheers,
M
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Should you be able to live off pool playing? Most probably not.

Most pool people should be able to make about as much money playing pool as the piano teacher around the corner makes from giving piano lessons.
 

SlashingAxe

Pool newbie
Silver Member
Hate it all you want but APA is helping bring in a lot of new players and from those a few that take it serious and strive to win tournaments or get to a semi pro level. They're not always the most sportsman like players but they can learn if surrounded by the right team. Plus the APA at least in my area has contacted the local papers and gotten a players win in Vegas in the paper and as a result seen new people asking how they can be like that guy. Hopefully in a few more years they can get it on tv or something similar to attract more people.
 
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