Pool and Tennis -- Which is Touger?

9BallPaul

9BallPaul

Banned
Just finished watching the Nadal--Federer confrontation at the Australian Open. Gotta say these two guys played points that have never been played befofe. Behind the back, deep below the basline, unblieveable saves on what should have been cross-court winners.

I became a tennis fan back in the era of Conners, McEnroe and Borg. Great as they were, their games never held a candle to what's being played now.

Yet when I look at pool, many of us oldtimers would argue that Luther Lassiter was the greatest nine-baller ever, and he's been gone for more than a half-century.

Mosconi's record in 14.1 was set what, two centuries ago? And even Eufenia's supposed higher run was so last century.

The biggest package in 9ball that I've ever heard is Earl's 10 (or was it 11) set at least 10 years ago.

So my qustion is, does the space restriction of a pool table mean that at some point the game just can't be played better? For example, there's a limit to how fast a human can cover 100 meters. But that record keeps getting broken.

Has pool maxed out it's potential for perfectioin?
 
Pool still has a lot of room to improve as records are bound to be broken sooner or later. Maybe when I see someone run a 10 pack using only kickshots I'll think about it.

Not sure how to gauge which is tough pool or tennis. In billiards you can have a top player who is 50 playing a top player who is 25 and the 50 year old could wipe the floor with em. The same certainly can't be said of tennis just because of how physical tennis is.

On the other hand billiards has an endless number of variables to think of. I'm not a tennis player, but I'm quite certain that the sport doesn't have nearly the amount of variables that billiards does.
 
Impossible to compare

They are two completely different games, requiring different skill sets.

I think 9 ball is about maxed out. I mean, how difficult is it to run 9 balls? Perhaps if anything you can probably improve on the level of kicking. Players can get more consistent and become better breakers but no one can ever be entirely dominant in a large due to the luck factor involved and also the simple fact that entire field is able to run out on you.

If you look at one pocket, the game has changed quite a bit. People as saying that Efren plays one pocket better than anyone ever. 14.1 has had a lull only because it hasn't been played much in the last 30 years.

Keep in mind the snooker of today is unrecognizable when placed beside the snooker of 30 years ago. The only guy who played at todays level and better during the 80's was Steve Davis.

To answer the question posed, every game is equally difficult to perform at the highest level.
 
gunzby said:
On the other hand billiards has an endless number of variables to think of. I'm not a tennis player, but I'm quite certain that the sport doesn't have nearly the amount of variables that billiards does.
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Gunzby, it's impossible to compare apples to apples here but when you consider that tennis is played by two players simultaneously within a 75 foot, three dimensional space and the infinite combinations of power and spin that can be applied (not to mention the ability to play both backhand and forehand shots, either left handed or right handed) I think you might be inclined to think again.

Just my opinion.
 
Wish I could edit the thread title

Not really interested in whether pool is tougher than tennis.

My question is why hasn't our game advanced as other games have? My answer is because it's played in such a confined space.

Also, check when the last billiarads recores were set.
 
sorry fellas, I love me some pool, but I used to be a fairly serious tennis player when I was a teenager and there is no question that tennis is much much much much much more difficult to play than pool.

I'm no SVB (or should I say Busta) on the pool table, but I've only been playing less than 2 years and I'm way past where I ever was in terms of skill level compared to the rest of the world with tennis.

Tennis takes unbelievable hand-eye coordination, incredible stamina, and great agility.


Obviously these two games are completely different, but a good way to decide would be to make an argument for an average person's odds to ascend to a pro or semi-pro level given the same amount of dedication. What it really takes to be great at either of these games is talent, but I am 100% certain that an average man has a much greater chance of being great at pool than tennis.
 
9BallPaul said:
Not really interested in whether pool is tougher than tennis.

My question is why hasn't our game advanced as other games have? My answer is because it's played in such a confined space.

Also, check when the last billiarads recores were set.
Click to expand...


the answer to this question is because people are interested in physical achievement and pool does not come across as a great physical achievement, more of a mental game. People want to see good looking 6'5" people in perfect shape do crazy things running around, not some mildly overweight seemingly average joe make a great kick shot.

face it boys, pool is simply not that entertaining to people who don't really play.
 
I'll totally say Tennis is ALOT HARDER!!!!!!!!

i mean look at how young you have to start at tennis and practice practice to get even semi good.

In billiards, i've seen guys start in thier late teen's and after a few yrs of practicing alot and playing tournys and stuff he's a solid A or AA player.


In tennis, once you hit mid 20's your almost past your prime, hell Federer is like 28? and last yr people were saying he is done, once he lost to Nadal..

In all sports at the pro level, its just different to be good, Golf, bowling, baseball, football, hockey, basketball, there is just a wide margin from being Decent to FREAKIN GOOD!!!

I mean I bowl and have done plenty of tournys and shot a fair share of 300's and whatnot, but I am no Walter Ray Williams Jr, Norm Duke or Chris Barnes, those guys are just SICK as to how good they are.
 
In answer to your first question...

9BallPaul said:
Just finished watching the Nadal--Federer confrontation at the Australian Open. Gotta say these two guys played points that have never been played befofe. Behind the back, deep below the basline, unblieveable saves on what should have been cross-court winners.

I became a tennis fan back in the era of Conners, McEnroe and Borg. Great as they were, their games never held a candle to what's being played now.

Yet when I look at pool, many of us oldtimers would argue that Luther Lassiter was the greatest nine-baller ever, and he's been gone for more than a half-century.

Mosconi's record in 14.1 was set what, two centuries ago? And even Eufenia's supposed higher run was so last century.

The biggest package in 9ball that I've ever heard is Earl's 10 (or was it 11) set at least 10 years ago.

So my qustion is, does the space restriction of a pool table mean that at some point the game just can't be played better? For example, there's a limit to how fast a human can cover 100 meters. But that record keeps getting broken.

Has pool maxed out it's potential for perfectioin?
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of which is "touger" :smile: Tennis is IMO exponentially more difficult. A HUGE % of pool players don't even have the physical capabilities to play tennis at a "high" level. Whereas probably ALL high level tennis players could be capable of pool at a high level.

As to the past legends vs current legends.... in tennis the equipment has changed the game dramatically... and that is one of only a couple of reasons that tennis is at the level it is today.... with pool... the equipment must stay virtually the same, and the game remains close to past levels mainly for one of a couple of reasons... the money isn't there so that a high level professional can devote their entire life to it, which conversely is the other reason that tennis has gained. On the other hand pool, with the internet has the chance to make a quantum leap forward as to how good the average player can be, and has already begun to make the jump. So I guess that is a NO to your last question IMO.

JMNSHO From someone who played tennis at about the same speed as pool.

td

By the way, I really enjoyed reading about your DCC adventures!!! Tap tap tap.
 
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Not enough people putting the time and effort into becoming great at pool like there is in tennis. If you are considering a career, there is no future in pool, so it will not attract like tennis does.
 
tennis involves running, that definitely makes it harder; for me at least. :D


<----------hasnt run more than ten feet in over a decade. And smokes :(
 
i wouldn't be too suprised to hear about a new "official" 14.1 high run soon. with guys like thorsten, schmidt, feijen and harriman turning out gargantuan runs and the game becoming more popular again, it might not be too far fetched.

justin.
 
pool is improving quite rapidly

I have only been back to pool for a few years after taking a roughly twenty year break. Although those that are around it all the time may not realize it, the level of play has increased very much. Aside from that, I am seeing teens and players in their young twenties that have the knowledge that only old players had twenty or thirty years ago, or at least old players in time on the table.

I don't know what the future holds for the sport of pool but as far as playing ability I strongly believe that the best is yet to come. We had younger dumber players with good eyes and good physical skills playing crafty old men with poor eyes and a little less sure stroke than they once had in my day. Now we have the two skill sets combined as it was in very few players way back when. Some of the fearless young guns of today could have taken down the greatest players ever, at least on a given day. What is more, I think the players of a decade or two from now will be a very real step above today's players.

Hu
 
Cameron Smith said:
They are two completely different games, requiring different skill sets.

I think 9 ball is about maxed out. I mean, how difficult is it to run 9 balls? Perhaps if anything you can probably improve on the level of kicking. Players can get more consistent and become better breakers but no one can ever be entirely dominant in a large due to the luck factor involved and also the simple fact that entire field is able to run out on you.

If you look at one pocket, the game has changed quite a bit. People as saying that Efren plays one pocket better than anyone ever. 14.1 has had a lull only because it hasn't been played much in the last 30 years.

Keep in mind the snooker of today is unrecognizable when placed beside the snooker of 30 years ago. The only guy who played at todays level and better during the 80's was Steve Davis.

To answer the question posed, every game is equally difficult to perform at the highest level.
Click to expand...


How difficult is it to run nine balls in order?

If you and I went to the BCA Nationals I would bet even money and let 1000 random players in the event play the nine ball ghost a race to seven on the bar table - $100 per set. How much do you think I would be ahead by the end of 1000 random sets played by the best amateur players in the United States.

Do you think that 50% of the players would beat the 9-ball ghost?

Physically, Tennis is tougher. Mentally, Pool is tougher. In tennis you have to be conditioned to react in a split second and your choices are pretty well defined. In pool you get to contemplate what to do and you generally, even in nine ball, have several options, then with NO ONE interacting with you, you have to get down and execute with precision exactly what you intended to do.

If a player can't dominate a sport then it's tougher. That means that more people can play it at a high level and to truly dominate it you have to have an even higher gear.

So, pool is tougher because more people have access to it and thus more people play it competitively and thus more people play at a high level making it harder to dominate. Pool doesn't come with trainers and coaches and specialized live-in schools, what's learned is learned through tons of experience and match play and rubber to the road miles. You have to go through a lot of world beaters to become one.

Pool is tougher because there is no worldwide system to fit into. Tennis has a structure that one can adjust to and know one's place in it at all times. The best player is the number one ranked player.

In pool you have people saying that Ko Pin Yi is the best player in the world even though he hasn't won as much as Johnny Archer for example. Pool players get knocked constantly and still they have to go out there and run hundreds of balls IN ORDER just to make the nut.

Pool players have to play under every kind of conditions and rules. They have to fade short sets in one tournament, long sets in another, playing matches at 3am, getting screwed by promoters and backers, being treated like fighting bulldogs to be thrown in the ring anytime two backers want to get their jollies.

Pool is tougher.
 
s0lidz said:
Not enough people putting the time and effort into becoming great at pool like there is in tennis. If you are considering a career, there is no future in pool, so it will not attract like tennis does.
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I don't think that people, meaning kids or their parents, really put a lot of thought into what sporting careers they should go into.

I think that the reality is probably more along the lines of kids getting into activities where they show some talent and from there the development happens as a combination of chance and dedication.

I mean I just don't see parents sitting down and weighing the options and deciding which sport to throw their kids into. I am sure that some do but most of the time I'd say that it's chance.

I can definitely see a point that more kids dream of being Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan then dream of being Earl or Johhny. But how is it in the Philippines for example? I bet there are plenty of kids there who dream of being Efren.

I just don't think that a lot of consideration goes into it early on or I guarantee you that a lot of today's pro pool players would have rather become pro golfers.
 
JB Cases said:
How difficult is it to run nine balls in order?

If you and I went to the BCA Nationals I would bet even money and let 1000 random players in the event play the nine ball ghost a race to seven on the bar table - $100 per set. How much do you think I would be ahead by the end of 1000 random sets played by the best amateur players in the United States.

Do you think that 50% of the players would beat the 9-ball ghost?
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Less than 20%

NO

You Could RETIRE!!!!! :-)


Have you played tennis at a high level? Just wondering. You do make some good points, though I have to agree to disagree

td
 
arcticmonkey said:
Gunzby, it's impossible to compare apples to apples here but when you consider that tennis is played by two players simultaneously within a 75 foot, three dimensional space and the infinite combinations of power and spin that can be applied (not to mention the ability to play both backhand and forehand shots, either left handed or right handed) I think you might be inclined to think again.

Just my opinion.
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I stand by what I said. In billiards the space is smaller, but possibilities are a little higher. Remember that in tennis there is only one ball to hit.

There is no doubt that tennis is physically tougher as there is no doubt that billiards is mentally tougher.

I never said either one was tougher overall.
 
i have played tennis at a pretty high level, i had wins over guys that played division 1 collegiate tennis, tennis is so much more physical and u have much more control over what happens on the court as opposed to what happens on a pool table, u cannot rely on luck to win u tennis matches like u can playing pool, in pool in shorter races there's always a long shot that any1 can beat a superior player, in tennis there is NO chance to beat a superior player unless they're sick or injured, in tennis if u make a bad shot most of the time u can always recover unless it's very late in the match, pool on the other hand if u make 1 bad shot u will lose that game for sure and it could cost u the entire match

for me personally pool is much tougher, every shot counts in both games but in pool it costs that much more, with tennis u can overcome skill/experience with natural athletic ability, with tennis 1 big weapon can knock an equally skilled player off the court, in pool u can have a big break but if u can't pocket balls it's gonna leave the other guy an ez out, in tennis if u got a big serve but weak ground strokes/volleys u can still win points, watch ivo karlovic play if u don't believe me, if u give a d player SVB's break he's still gonna be a d player

another thing with tennis is once u beat someone, unless they're reasonably close in skill level to u, u will beat them 99% of the time, 90%+ of players will throw in the towel if they lose the 1st set, in pool people aren't as easily dominated even by superior players and they're also not as likely to just throw in the towel if they're behind, tennis is a lot like boxing mentally once u break someones will they're done and that carries over to future matches

for me tennis and mma would be the most competitive sports in the world, meaning that the amount of time spent practicing them is greater than most other sports, even at the high school level for tennis, over the summer it's not uncommon for guys to play 8-12 hours per day, even bein more competitive doesn't make it a tougher game, most of it comes down to the pressure on each stroke u make, for me pool wins
________
 
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grindz said:
Have you played tennis at a high level? Just wondering. You do make some good points, though I have to agree to disagree

td
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No. it was too tough for me. :-)

But I was a competitive table tennis player and spring board diver and trampolinist so I understand physical sports quite well.

I also used to get paid for jumping off a little bitty platform that was 90ft in the air into a 18ft diameter pool that was only 9ft deep. That was when I got paid to be a "professional" high diver.
 
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