Serious question: Outside of a few big cities like New York / Chicago / San Francisco and a few tournaments that were leftovers from previous decades, who in the 70's was actually playing straight pool? I was in some of the leading action rooms almost 7 days a week, and I can't remember a single 14.1 gambling match. It was almost nothing but 9 ball and one pocket.
Pool Eras
- Thread starter MattPoland
- Start date
ESPN, the first major sports-only TV network in American history, came into existence in September 1979. At first, it was chiefly a sports news network, but in the early 1980s, it evolved into a showcase for a wide variety of sports. While pool had occasionally found some airtime on major network TV (for example, on ABC Wide World of Sports), the possibilities for presentation of pool on TV grew substantially with the inception of ESPN. In the early days of ESPN, many second-tier sports found airtime on the not yet high budget ESPN, and pool was among them. Suddenly, pro pool had to be modified to become more suitable for television, and pool's powerbrokers decided that Texas Express style nine ball was their best shot because it was fast paced and easy to follow.
Ah, those were the days.
100 percent correct.
Do you recall what happened between the 60s to 70s that ushered in that switch to 9-ball? Did it simply become more popular organically due to road players introducing it to locals? Or was something more organized occurring?
College tournaments were all 14.1 well into the mid 1970s so it was still being played nationally and not just in the big cities.
Jennie: I think you meant to type "Seasons" for the fictional movie surname of Scorsese's composite character, representing the deliberately obnoxious, bet-provoking, showboating special type of hustler whose stock-in-trade move is to annoy the opponent to the point anger and a resulting loss of focus.And the Color of Money era, no mention Keith McCready? Kind of odd to not include him since he's most famous for that movie as Grady Mathews and still gets asked about it today in 2022 for a 1986 movie.
Arnaldo
Hopefully we can better serve our junior players and provide for them an established professional system to work towards.
Perhaps a communal fund for B.E.F. Junior players?
I think it was road players who introduced 9 ball to the rest of the country. Before 9 ball tournaments where they played sets, they played by the game. $5 or $10 a game and it went fast and was great for side betting. Then it morphed into 'ahead' matches where the player had to be a certain number of games ahead before he could collect from his opponent. Sets came last when they started running 9 ball tournaments.
Hear, hear!!These are not "Hustler era" players, in my opinion, with the exception of Buddy Hall. Just saying. I could think of many, many other names that fit in that era much better.
And the Color of Money era, no mention Keith McCready? Kind of odd to not include him since he's most famous for that movie as Grady Mathews and still gets asked about it today in 2022 for a 1986 movie.
Well, Keith belongs in both of those eras, in my opinion, and the the Hustler era should include players like Grady Mathews Buddy Hall (I agree), St. Louis Louie Roberts, Minnesota Fats (probably the biggest hustler of them all), Cliff Joyner, Billy Incardona, Larry Lisciotti, Cornbread Red, Jimmy Reid, and Ronnie Allen. Keith should be in there too because he was, most definitely, a road player and a hustler, much more so than the tournament soldiers and BCA "darlings" of that era.
These Who's the Best threads are based on age of the person who lists names and region of the country they live in, I think. Young people have no idea how players from the past played or who many of them are, as well as some people don't know how players from, say, New York played compared to players from, say, Texas. It's a regional thing that people know about and are not familiar with other regions.
You're absolutely right. I'll go edit it. This thread is disconcerting to me. Make me want to publish my memoirs and piss the pool purist people off.
Good question. In the first pool room I ever played in, in Cambridge MD, there was a one rack game called "straight 8's", which was like straight pool but without the 14.1 continuation. IOW you run 8 and you win. But that was a tiny room in a Black neighborhood, and once I left Cambridge for Durham and DC I never saw anything but 9 ball and one pocket.
As for why 9 ball took over, I don't think it's that complicated. It's a quicker game with instant gratification. But then there's also this: For most of the 60's, at least in most of the many rooms I played in, table time wasn't calculated by the minute, but rather by the rack, with the loser of each rack paying a dime (or a nickel for 6 ball) to the house man, who would then re-rack the balls for the next game. Needless to say, that payment method was much more suited to games like 9-ball, 8-ball, and what we then called "sixty-one", i.e. rotation. "Straight 8's" could be adapted to that form of payment, but not 14.1.
Finally, the voice of truth enters the thread.
We need to represent pool American style. It ain't all about those tin cups and titles, much to the chagrin of pool purists.Oh, you represent our sport & Keith’s merited place within it with accuracy, aplomb and joie-de-vivre JAM!
American pool, with all its warts and flaws, shined brightly during the road warrior years, and those unsung heroes of that era like Ronnie Allen, Larry Lisciotti, Jimmy Reid, Louie Roberts, Vern Elliott, Billy Incardona, Cornbread Red, Grady Mathews, et al., deserve their place in the history books too. It's not all about tin cups and titles. I mean, the movie, "The Color of Money" was based on road agents, and because of that movie, pool got a boost in popularity.
i would like to add Danny Dilerberto, and Johnny Ervolino to this thread.
shoot out 9 ball had been around for a long time before texas express
For any not familiar with it, Freddy The Beard's book The 'Encyclopedia' of Pool Hustlers may be the most entertaining pool book of all time. As soon as I got it I started looking for all the players I'd matched up with at one point or another, never with much success. Of course since you contributed the section on Geese, I don't need to tell you about it, but there are others who might find it worth getting.We need to represent pool American style. It ain't all about those tin cups and titles, much to the chagrin of pool purists.
American pool, with all its warts and flaws, shined brightly during the road warrior years, and those unsung heroes of that era like Ronnie Allen, Larry Lisciotti, Jimmy Reid, Louie Roberts, Vern Elliott, Billy Incardona, Cornbread Red, Grady Mathews, et al., deserve their place in the history books too. It's not all about tin cups and titles. I mean, the movie, "The Color of Money" was based on road agents, and because of that movie, pool got a boost in popularity.
This is a must-have in every pool aficionado's collection for sure. I have his first release and then the hardback final copy.For any not familiar with it, Freddy The Beard's book The 'Encyclopedia' of Pool Hustlers may be the most entertaining pool book of all time. As soon as I got it I started looking for all the players I'd matched up with at one point or another, never with much success. Of course since you contributed the section on Geese, I don't need to tell you about it, but there are others who might find it worth getting.
Here's my favorite Geese photo.