Pool has a "FATAL FLAW"

[cajunfats]

Trends

Please note: I am not talking about miniature pool. Miniature pool is alive and well. Nationally, Pocket Billiards as played on a regulation table has all but collapsed.

Oh, I get it now. You are speaking of pocket billiards played on tables which are larger than 3.5 x7, aka Bar Boxes.

I am not sure what kind of exposure you have had nationally to determine your findings. I am also not sure whether you have any industry figures to back the assertions you have made. If you are basing this trend on League Play on 8',9', or 10' tables, that would be comparing apples to oranges.

League Play on Big Tables has never been a National phenomenon. The greatest majority of those types of leagues are local in-house organizations. While Big Table Leagues have the capacity, it is a matter of demographics. Because America is so huge, and has many small towns that cannot support a large scale billiard operation,and has multiple Bars per small town, it would naturally appear that Big Table Pool is disadvantaged.

As I asserted in another thread, the European Style Pool Club is an ideal vehicle for a Big Table League. I have participated in this type of league, and have seen the adaptability of it for use here in the United States.

Big Table Pool has fluctuated in periods of recession and prosperity, because of the business model is utilizes. The model may work in Charlotte, North Carolina but not in Jasper, Texas.

Now I have a better grasp of your concerns. Not to worry, Pool won't die. Not even Big Table Pool! It will adapt, as all good things do.

cajunfats

 

[cajunfats]

Dynamic

The most notable development in Pocket Billiards in the last 35 years is the concept of a "pool team". The dynamic of the game has changed for those events. This is what I am talking about. The team concept has generated human interaction that was not there previously. There is now a dynamic on each side. There needs to be an additional dynamic between the two sides.

Hats off to Hubbert and Bell.

What human dynamic exists that hasn't already been displayed via team interactions, whether Amateur or Professional?

Yes, Larry and Terry have done well with their business model, via sponsorship. What human dynamic did they introduce to competition that hadn't previously existed?

cajunfats-knows a thing or two about pool leagues.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Brings out the dynamic play and electicity of the Mosconi Cup.

The most notable development in Pocket Billiards in the last 35 years is the concept of a "pool team". The dynamic of the game has changed for those events. This is what I am talking about. The team concept has generated human interaction that was not there previously. There is now a dynamic on each side. There needs to be an additional dynamic between the two sides.

Hats off to Hubbert and Bell.

We don't agree on everything, however, I agree with the idea that pool can be successful in a "Team Format," if the production formula brings out the dynamic play and electicity of the Mosconi Cup.

 

[cueman]

It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. The combination of these components is not a recipe for success. All sports know that this is unacceptable. No successful legitimate sport has this structure. This current structure of pool mirrors a video game, not a sport. Play Pac Man and make your opponent sit and watch you clear screens. Play pool and make your opponent sit and watch you run balls/racks.

Take note of the following: a 240,000 straight rail billiard run, a run of 622 balkline billiards, a run of 31 three cushion billiards, a run of 4137 points in English Billiards, a 526 ball run in straight pool, an 18 pack in bar-box nine-ball, an 11 pack in nine-ball on a big-table. Where are these games now? Are these examples of successful games with viable futures? All these games are evidence of failed attempts to come to terms with the “FATAL FLAW”. Players get good so let’s make the game harder. Is Ten Ball with tiny pockets the answer to improving interest in the game? I don’t think so.

Baseball, football, basketball, golf, bowling, and other successful sports have written into their rules, regular and predictable opportunities for players/teams to participate. This makes for viable competition and result in popular successful sports. Pool needs to look inward at its structure and look for ways to do the same. The fix would send pool’s evolution in an entirely different direction. Evolution takes a long time and pool is light years away from being ready for prime time. If the “FATAL FLAW” was fixed, I think it is very possible that over time, one new game would emerge that would have the broad based appeal needed so that pool could join all the other successful sports.

Alternate breaks maybe?

 

[Paul Schofield]

What human dynamic did they introduce to competition that hadn't previously existed?

camaraderie, fellowship

 

[TRWpool]

Sorry, I've never been much of a team player. I grew up relying on my own abilities and for this old dog it's hard to learn new tricks. I played the BCA Nationals in Vegas, last May I think it was, and our team consisted of solid players but we were greatly flawed in that one of our players insisted on drinking beer throughout the matches. The team captain chose not to play though he was the third best player on the team and placed instead our weakest player in his place. Needless to say we barely finished in the money. I know, I was obviously on the wrong team, but we are all friends living in the same area so what was I suppose to do when asked to join them? I would imagine this kind of thing happens frequently.

So, for me, I will stick to writing my own ticket when it comes to pool. No one to blame but me, but then I can take all the credit when things go right. I just like it better that way.

 

[cajunfats]

Human Dynamic

camaraderie, fellowship

Unfortunately, these existed in hundreds of local tavern leagues before the APA became a national organization. I remember feeling a sense of fellowship with other pool players as a youngster in the 60's when I first started playing. The first table I have ever played on was a 9 footer.

I am not trying to argue with you Mr. Schofield, I am merely trying to understand how you came to a conclusion about pool having a fatal flaw.

 

[Paul Schofield]

I am not trying to argue with you Mr. Schofield, I am merely trying to understand how you came to a conclusion about pool having a fatal flaw.

No one has to agree with me. If you think everything is fine, that is alright by me.

I re-read my OP. I thought it was clear. I guess not. I will try from a different angle.

I think it is imperative to have one representative game that captivates all players; a game that is the introductory game for novices and is also the game preferred by the top players. I see this as an overwhelming problem that limits pools popularity and progress. My OP offers an explanation for the gyrations pool has experienced over the decades.

 

[TRWpool]

One Pocket was the first game I was introduced to as a beginner pool enthusiast. As you must know, One Pocket requires the player to utlilize all the elements of pool to become proficient at the game. It has offense and defense throughout and therefore creates a kind of chess match with pool balls. I was lucky there were so many great One Pocket players in my area. I was in a position to learn so many things so quickly.

One Pocket is the ultimate pool game and in my experience it is the game of choice amongst top money players because of all the back and forth it offers. Each player has a real sense of control over the outcome given they play inteligently and within their current limitations. Also, the game is much easier to match up with players of various skill levels. The only draw back is the game is so cerebral that it won't ever have much television appeal.

I see no fatal flaw. Pool has been around for centuries and will always be around. Physics professors take their students to pool rooms to study the collisions of spheres. What other game garners that kind of respect. Pool is one of the most amazing games ever invented.

Tom

 

[Island Drive]

No one has to agree with me. If you think everything is fine, that is alright by me.

I re-read my OP. I thought it was clear. I guess not. I will try from a different angle.

I think it is imperative to have one representative game that captivates all players; a game that is the introductory game for novices and is also the game preferred by the top players. I see this as an overwhelming problem that limits pools popularity and progress. My OP offers an explanation for the gyrations pool has experienced over the decades.

Paul, you know what it takes, but haven't figured out how to get there. The flaw is....no one has been able to piece humpty dumpty together, even with all the parts right in front of em. Too bad we didn't live closer to one another.

 

[Maniac]

The flaw is....no one has been able to piece humpty dumpty together, even with all the parts right in front of em.

Island,

Your description is: flaw

Paul's description is: FATAL flaw

See the difference ???

Maniac (pool will still be around LO-O-O-NG after we're gone)

 

[Island Drive]

Island,

Your description is: flaw

Paul's description is: FATAL flaw

See the difference ???

Maniac (pool will still be around LO-O-O-NG after we're gone)

Yeah I do, Pauls a pool Maniac & so it goes....

 

[Paul Schofield]

Both 6Pocket and Pool300 have been discussed in this thread. They are both non-interactive scored games that are similar in structure to bowling and golf. Does anyone know the status of the organizations that invented these games? I have searched on the Internet and have been unable to find current information.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Both 6Pocket and Pool300 have been discussed in this thread. They are both non-interactive scored games that are similar in structure to bowling and golf. Does anyone know the status of the organizations that invented these games? I have searched on the Internet and have been unable to find current information.

I will ask again. Does anyone know the status on leagues playing these two scored games?

 

[Luther Blissett]

Speed pool? ...Each player gets 20 minutes to score as high as possible from a fresh rack.

Might be crap to watch or might be good. Don't know.

 

[pooler]

some info

Both 6Pocket and Pool300 have been discussed in this thread. They are both non-interactive scored games that are similar in structure to bowling and golf. Does anyone know the status of the organizations that invented these games? I have searched on the Internet and have been unable to find current information.

Hello Paul

I am not able to give You the exact info about the two requested above; however I do know that another non-interactive scored game is developing fairly well.

I do know that the people running it put every effort into its development and it also seems that their hearts are definitely in the right place.
Perhaps it would be worth for You to check this out for whatever reason You are looking for this kind of stuff.

Contact user Deby on this Forum or go directly to:
http://www.behindtherocktour.com
or the e-mail address:
deby@behindtherocktour.com

Regards

 

[vapoolplayer]

I tend to agree. I'm not going to write out a long post this morning as this horse has been long dead, but pool's biggest problem is itself. The game itself just isn't entertaining enough or logistacally feasible to become a major game/sport.

The latest wave of business models seems to be PPV streaming, which IMO may garner enough attention from pool's current fanbase to be a financial success for the owners, but isn't going to take pool to where everyone wants it.

I love this game and hate to say it, but pool just isn't something that is going to take off and compete with major sports/games. (in the U.S. that is)

 

[paulcourville]

I See, said the blind man...

So, as in most of those other sports... when one team scores, the other team gets to take over the object of play.. I guess with that being the case, Pocket Billiards could change so that each player shoots ONCE.. then it's the other players turn, weather the first shooter made anything or not.. hmmmmm, I break, and a ball is pocketed, table is still Open at that point.. I call a ball and a pocket and I drop the called ball, it's NOW my opponents turn, a shot is made and is missed, it's now my turn at the table.. hmmmmm no huge runs, no break & run possibility. Cue ball position after each shot becomes more critical as you are no longer setting up your own next shot but your opponents next shot... Each attempt at pocketing a ball is now two fold in that you're aiming to make a ball and a saftey play with the cue ball at the same time.. It could be interesting.. I'm gonna have to try this out ! ! !

 

[Banks]

So, as in most of those other sports... when one team scores, the other team gets to take over the object of play.. I guess with that being the case, Pocket Billiards could change so that each player shoots ONCE.. then it's the other players turn, weather the first shooter made anything or not.. hmmmmm, I break, and a ball is pocketed, table is still Open at that point.. I call a ball and a pocket and I drop the called ball, it's NOW my opponents turn, a shot is made and is missed, it's now my turn at the table.. hmmmmm no huge runs, no break & run possibility. Cue ball position after each shot becomes more critical as you are no longer setting up your own next shot but your opponents next shot... Each attempt at pocketing a ball is now two fold in that you're aiming to make a ball and a saftey play with the cue ball at the same time.. It could be interesting.. I'm gonna have to try this out ! ! !

For the love of everything good in this world.. no. Just.. no.

How about after player A gets done at the table, player B has a chance to tie or best player A's run? That's more like baseball.. you don't take turns swinging the bat, throwing the ball, etc.

Any more and I'll just disagree with anybody named Paul.

 

[Tommy Joe]

It’s not rocket science. All one has to do is pick out the common components of all successful sports and then identify what is missing in pool. Pool has a “FATAL FLAW”. Pool has its own glass ceiling.

Here is the “FATAL FLAW”: A player is entitled to play on offence and score without limit while an opponent sits idly without influence. The combination of these components is not a recipe for success. All sports know that this is unacceptable.


I believe the relative success of any sport today revolves more around how it's appeal adapts to television and those who watch it. I agree about the glass ceiling. All the top 9 ball players can run 9 balls and are expected to do it any time they have an open table, although they can't do it all the time no matter who they are.

I still think it's tv though. Look at golf. All the putts look tough. No way am I saying golf is tougher than pool, only that to the viewer the shots look tough. In pool the opposite is true, the better the game is played the easier it looks. No matter how well a golfer plays, the shots still look tough to the viewer. I'm not sure the average fan watching pool on tv is able to identify with the difficulty of the run outs. Maybe you can, but we're not talking about you or me or most who post here, we're talking about the average fan watching on tv. Even if they play the game for recreation, most don't play it well enough to understand the level of difficulty. Throw in the lack of emotional appeal that exists in boxing matches or MMA events or the final day of a golf major. There is often a love/hate factor involved in popular sports where the fan either loves or hates certain teams or players. That too is lacking in pool.

But so what? If you love the game, what difference does it make how popular it becomes or how much money the top players make? Who says just because somebody becomes good at a game that they deserve to become millionaires? Same with musicians. They claim to play because they love it, yet if the cash doesn't come their way they gripe that they're getting the short end of the stick and ***** about other inferior forms of music getting more exposure and being more popular. Truth is, it isn't written in stone somewhere that just because someone practices something and gets good at it that they have an automatic pass to a lifetime of fame and fortune. I do agree though that the table games are all good games and it is possible the best table game has not yet even been invented. Also, one last thing - tv makes the game look even easier than it is. The camera can't seem to capture the game as seen by the player or those watching nearby. Overall, my theory is that the game is not a major success on tv for two main reasons - the game looks easier than it is (to most viewers), and the players don't have stand-out personalities that cause viewers to form a love/hate relationship with the players that exists in other sports. Maybe if a few punches were thrown between sets?

TJ