Pool has NO shot :-(

[John Barton]

I just finished watching a bass fishing tournament. For an hour they kept switching between boats to show the fishermen pulling fish out of the water. The contestant were all decked out with logos like Nascar drivers, the had "cap cams". Each time a fish got pulled out there was a computer graphic in 3d of the brand and shape of the lure used.

At the end of the show the fishermen all got on stage to present their fish for weighing. There was a screaming crowd of about 500 or so. They cheered for every fish. First prize was $200,000, 2cnd was $100,000.

What chance does pool have in a climate where fishing tournaments have HUGE corporate sponsorship from the event on down to the participants?

You know why, POOL itself is not mainstream. Yamaha, Mercury, Coleman and many others whose logos were all over the place at the fishing tournament are household names. People who don't fish know what those companies do and have used the equipment they make at one time or another in their life.

Ask casual viewers of a pool match who the sponsors are? Blank stares all around. At the fishing thing it was obvious that the Logos were attached to things that are useful to the average viewers.

Just once I'd like to see a 3d shot of the player's cues on a televised billiard match. Maybe that would entice more sponsors to step up and be a part of pool.

 

[JAM]

Me, too!

Most of the pool tournaments I go to, the sponsors are pool industry folk. There are not too many non-pool-related sponsors in America, though some do exist, but pretty scarce. Sometimes the non-pool-related sponsors will provide financial assistance to a pro player. In order to get your industry name on, say, TV, a sponsor would have to pay a hefty sum, which most pool industry folk cannot afford.

You see the usual pool industry names at most TV pool events here in the States: Brunswick, Simonis, Sardo, Olhausen, Silver Cup chalk, Master Chalk, et cetera. There are not any non-pool industry sponsors at these pool events on TV.

Diamond made a huge investment in the IPT by providing the equipment. In return, they were/are the official table for the IPT. Today, I fear that the thousands of dollars and time invested did not compensate Diamond for their thousands of dollars and time invested.

The only pool player I know who has received name-brand recognition from advertising is Jeanette Lee. Hard work and dedication seems to have paid off, as she is the most recognized American pool player.

I recently was investigating domain names in an effort to get my counterpart a website. I was surprised to learn that my counterpart's namesake was already taken -- "KeithMcCready.com." It is a 3 cushion billiard website.

Today, the Internet seems to be a good vehicle to promote, advertise, and sell. It is the way of the future. Look at the poker players and professional boxers who have website insignia on their clothing when they are on TV.

I was watching a bowling tournament recently, and the player who won had his own website. The audience at this bowling tournament was filled to the brim with screaming fans. The tournament monies were decent, paying $100,000 for first place. All of the pro bowlers had non-bowling industry sponsor logos on their clothing.

Pool used to have Camel cigarettes, as one example of a non-pool sponsor. Today, I cannot think of any non-pool sponsor in pool. Sad to say, but true!

JAM

 

[poolplayer2093]

were attached to things that are useful to the average viewers.

Just once I'd like to see a 3d shot of the player's cues on a televised billiard match. Maybe that would entice more sponsors to step up and be a part of pool.[/QUOTE]

i agree completely

 

[MikeJanis]

Today, I cannot think of any non-pool sponsor in pool. Sad to say, but true!
JAM

Uhh Humm, Red Roof Inn

Jam, Red Roof Inn is a sponsor of the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tours.


Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF
( http://www.redroof.com/?source=vikingtour )


Unfortunately they don't give us big bucks but it's a start.

If more people start using the discount code I might be able to re-negotiate the deal.

Hint, hint......... Use the Viking Tour Discount Code at all Red Roof Inns (CP530832). I can tell you for a fact they they are keeping track and if it hits a predesignated number of responses the deal will get a lot better and will include all Accor owned hotels which includes many other names and over 4,000 properties world-wide.

Mj

 

[JAM]

Uhh Humm, Red Roof Inn

Jam, Red Roof Inn is a sponsor of the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tours.


Red Roof Inn Hotels -
USE CODE CP530832 for a 12% DISCOUNT
1-800-RED-ROOF
( http://www.redroof.com/?source=vikingtour )


Unfortunately they don't give us big bucks but it's a start.

Mj

I had forgotten about Red Roof Inn being a pool sponsor for Viking. You may be one of the few tours with this kind of recognition. Bravo to you for getting them!

JAM

 

[StormHotRod300]

JAM,

I can remember back in the day of Pro bowling where it was in the same situation Pro Pool is, first place for tournaments was about 15-20,000$ for a hard weeks work. A very good year was when you made over 75,000$ and that was doing 20 or so week long tournaments.

I can also remember when Bowling took a major turn for the better. Two guys who usta work for Microsoft, bought the PBA Tour, and upped the first place prize in every event to 40,000$ and the over all increase in prize payouts was upped too. And for the Major Events, first place was upped to 100,000$, which there was 3 or 4 events + the 16 other events too.

I remember I believe it was the first or second year of this new format Walter Ray Williams Jr, also set the new record for money earned in a year which was over 300,000$, and the next yr he made over 400,000$ !!!!!!!!!

Honestly if Pro Billiards wants any type of chance at big time money, you need to have one Major Tour, and get some big name sponsors, outside of billiards.

I know Bowling has stuff like Banquet, Miller beer, and other stuff, which they all get thier own tournament to sponsor. I believe Denny's was the offical sponsor of the Tour, and Day's Inn has been too, and Motel 6 too.

But of course you'd need to have the powers that be, combine force's to make one uniform'd billiards tour.

dave

 

[Da Poet]

I just finished watching a bass fishing tournament. For an hour they kept switching between boats to show the fishermen pulling fish out of the water. The contestant were all decked out with logos like Nascar drivers, the had "cap cams". Each time a fish got pulled out there was a computer graphic in 3d of the brand and shape of the lure used.

At the end of the show the fishermen all got on stage to present their fish for weighing. There was a screaming crowd of about 500 or so. They cheered for every fish. First prize was $200,000, 2cnd was $100,000.

What chance does pool have in a climate where fishing tournaments have HUGE corporate sponsorship from the event on down to the participants?

You know why, POOL itself is not mainstream. Yamaha, Mercury, Coleman and many others whose logos were all over the place at the fishing tournament are household names. People who don't fish know what those companies do and have used the equipment they make at one time or another in their life.

Ask casual viewers of a pool match who the sponsors are? Blank stares all around. At the fishing thing it was obvious that the Logos were attached to things that are useful to the average viewers.

Just once I'd like to see a 3d shot of the player's cues on a televised billiard match. Maybe that would entice more sponsors to step up and be a part of pool.

Like you, I feel the same way about wanting to see the sport grow in popularity, but I suspect there are a couple things about the game of pool that will always keep it from having big money jumping in and sponsoring it at the same level as other sports.

The biggest difference I've noticed in pool compared to other sports is that in pool, there is not really any significant new product development year after year like there is in other sports. It doesn't exist and it likely never will. Once a typical pool player has purchased a couple nice cues and a bag, there really isn't anything left to buy that's going to give him or her that little extra edge over the competition. Maybe a table, but still, these items have not changed one bit in the last few years or decades so there's no need for any big event type promotional splashes like they have in other sports.

Product developement within a sport is just one part of the sponsorship factor, but I think a critical one. Those large bass fishing events are funded largely by sponsors within the industry itself trying very hard to get their names out in front of their competitors in an ever changing product battle. Pool product sellers and distributors are sponsoring pool events, but the pool product market is so small and unchanging that it will likely stay as it is for quite a while. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but that's just the way things look to me right now.

 

[Fleece3]

I just finished watching a bass fishing tournament. For an hour they kept switching between boats to show the fishermen pulling fish out of the water. The contestant were all decked out with logos like Nascar drivers, the had "cap cams". Each time a fish got pulled out there was a computer graphic in 3d of the brand and shape of the lure used.

At the end of the show the fishermen all got on stage to present their fish for weighing. There was a screaming crowd of about 500 or so. They cheered for every fish. First prize was $200,000, 2cnd was $100,000.

What chance does pool have in a climate where fishing tournaments have HUGE corporate sponsorship from the event on down to the participants?

You know why, POOL itself is not mainstream. Yamaha, Mercury, Coleman and many others whose logos were all over the place at the fishing tournament are household names. People who don't fish know what those companies do and have used the equipment they make at one time or another in their life.

Ask casual viewers of a pool match who the sponsors are? Blank stares all around. At the fishing thing it was obvious that the Logos were attached to things that are useful to the average viewers.

Just once I'd like to see a 3d shot of the player's cues on a televised billiard match. Maybe that would entice more sponsors to step up and be a part of pool.

I do agree with you that pool has no shot. However, I believe that the reason we can not get MAJOR sponsors is because of the gambling/hustling aspect. You can even see it here, take ANY major tournament, there will be a couple of posts regarding the tournament itself. Then there will be 3 to 4 times as many posts regarding after hours 'ACTION'. If you were a major corporation would you want you brand name associated with such an image? Pool itself is a very elegant, elite sport (a home table, let alone a home large enough to have a home table, is not cheap). However, until we are ready to let go of the image of Paul Newman in the Hustler, and allow our image to grow, we will forever stand still while the world expands around us.

After all, have you ever heard of Tiger playing Phil for 10 grand on the back 9?

 

[JAM]

I do agree with you that pool has no shot. However, I believe that the reason we can not get MAJOR sponsors is because of the gambling/hustling aspect. You can even see it here, take ANY major tournament, there will be a couple of posts regarding the tournament itself. Then there will be 3 to 4 times as many posts regarding after hours 'ACTION'. If you were a major corporation would you want you brand name associated with such an image? Pool itself is a very elegant, elite sport (a home table, let alone a home large enough to have a home table, is not cheap). However, until we are ready to let go of the image of Paul Newman in the Hustler, and allow our image to grow, we will forever stand still while the world expands around us.

After all, have you ever heard of Tiger playing Phil for 10 grand on the back 9?

My take on it is that the gambling/hustling aspect of pool is where it seems to shine here in America. When "The Color of Money" movie came out in 1986, pool's popularity surged upward.

Poker is pure gambling, and though it's hard for me to accept the fact that poker is a sport, it is accepted by mainstream America. It's on several TV stations 24/7 now, and there are non-poker industry sponsors paying big bucks to have their names associated with poker.

Gambling seems to have taken America on by surprise in recent times. Internet poker sites are booming. People tune into TV stations and watch the so-called "poker pros" competing for tournaments around the world.

I do not know for how long poker will be popular, but I can't see its popularity fading at any time soon.

If pool could be presented on a platform to attract mainstream America, which in these times can only be had via TV, then and only then will curious onlookers bite. Currently, pool on TV just doesn't seem to grab folks in. I know some pro pool players who can't watch pool on TV because it doesn't capture their attention.

It is obvious that throwing millions of dollars into pool tournaments will not work, as evidenced by several IPT events. Nobody outside of the existing American pool culture seemed to take notice.

So my theory is that pool must be presented in a completely different way than it is being done today. Pool players dressed in three-piece suits competing in fancy ballrooms will not work. Today, pool players on TV show less emotion than Buckingham Guards. It's like they're just going through the motions, executing shots. Mainstream America doesn't understand why a triple-bank shot in the corner pocket is brilliant. That's the biggest problem, IMHO.

In sum, I think the gambling/hustling aspect of American pool is exactly what needs to come forth. If American society accepts poker, enjoys watching it on TV, seeing the poker pros chatting it up with each other, dressed in their shorts and baseball caps, then maybe pool should follow this route. It is obvious that all other avenues have been tried and failed. It's time for something new.

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

Tap, Tap..........

Jam, I agree with you almost 100% but I kinda like the 3 piece monkey suits on the players. Ok, maybe just some nice/sporty dress clothes will do. But please, no shorts and flip-flops.

My take on it is that the gambling/hustling aspect of pool is where it seems to shine here in America. When "The Color of Money" movie came out in 1986, pool's popularity surged upward.

Poker is pure gambling, and though it's hard for me to accept the fact that poker is a sport, it is accepted by mainstream America. It's on several TV stations 24/7 now, and there are non-poker industry sponsors paying big bucks to have their names associated with poker.

Gambling seems to have taken America on by surprise in recent times. Internet poker sites are booming. People tune into TV stations and watch the so-called "poker pros" competing for tournaments around the world.

I do not know for how long poker will be popular, but I can't see its popularity fading at any time soon.

If pool could be presented on a platform to attract mainstream America, which in these times can only be had via TV, then and only then will curious onlookers bite. Currently, pool on TV just doesn't seem to grab folks in. I know some pro pool players who can't watch pool on TV because it doesn't capture their attention.

It is obvious that throwing millions of dollars into pool tournaments will not work, as evidenced by several IPT events. Nobody outside of the existing American pool culture seemed to take notice.

So my theory is that pool must be presented in a completely different way than it is being done today. Pool players dressed in three-piece suits competing in fancy ballrooms will not work. Today, pool players on TV show less emotion than Buckingham Guards. It's like they're just going through the motions, executing shots. Mainstream America doesn't understand why a triple-bank shot in the corner pocket is brilliant. That's the biggest problem, IMHO.

In sum, I think the gambling/hustling aspect of American pool is exactly what needs to come forth. If American society accepts poker, enjoys watching it on TV, seeing the poker pros chatting it up with each other, dressed in their shorts and baseball caps, then maybe pool should follow this route. It is obvious that all other avenues have been tried and failed. It's time for something new.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Tap, Tap..........

Jam, I agree with you almost 100% but I kinda like the 3 piece monkey suits on the players. Ok, maybe just some nice/sporty dress clothes.

I don't know, Mike. Personally speaking, I saw the players in Vegas competing in the three-piece suits, button-down long-sleeved shirts, and I must say that MANY of them were uncomfortable.

Keith, as an example, tried to roll his long sleeves up, and one of his matches that he was supposed to win, on three different occasions, his shirt sleeve interfered with his stroke, making him miss a ball. I am not making excuses for him missing because I saw the shirt sleeve hit the cue stick. Why in the world, I'm thinking, do these players have to wear long-sleeved shirts playing pool? Of course, the ladies at the event could wear anything they wanted, you know, the old adage that sex sells, I guess.

I even bought some arm garders for Keith to hold the long sleeves up, and he couldn't wear them, saying that they felt like he had a rubber band on his arm.

Bowlers and golfers wear short-sleeved shirts, and IMHO, pool players, because of the vicinity of the cue stick when they are shooting pool, should wear short-sleeved shirts as well to be comfortable, allowing them to give their best performance.

Nike came out with a shoe for skateboarders. If pool ever got an inkling of popularity, maybe there's a market for pool shoes. I know sneakers are taboo in some tournament settings, but I don't see the golfers and bowlers wearing Italian-made dress leather shoes when they are in competition.

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

I don't know, Mike. Personally speaking, I saw the players in Vegas competing in the three-piece suits, button-down long-sleeved shirts, and I must say that MANY of them were uncomfortable.

Keith, as an example, tried to roll his long sleeves up, and one of his matches that he was supposed to win, on three different occasions, his shirt sleeve interfered with his stroke, making him miss a ball. I am not making excuses for him missing because I saw the shirt sleeve hit the cue stick. Why in the world, I'm thinking, do these players have to wear long-sleeved shirts playing pool? Of course, the ladies at the event could wear anything they wanted, you know, the old adage that sex sells, I guess.

I even bought some arm garders for Keith to hold the long sleeves up, and he couldn't wear them, saying that they felt like he had a rubber band on his arm.

Bowlers and golfers wear short-sleeved shirts, and IMHO, pool players, because of the vicinity of the cue stick when they are shooting pool, should wear short-sleeved shirts as well to be comfortable, allowing them to give their best performance.

Nike came out with a shoe for skateboarders. If pool ever got an inkling of popularity, maybe there's a market for pool shoes. I know sneakers are taboo in some tournament settings, but I don't see the golfers and bowlers wearing Italian-made dress leather shoes when they are in competition.

JAM

Jam, I'm all for skipping the long sleeves and as far as sneakers go, I'm ok with that to.

As a matter of fact I'm sooooo ok with the sneakers that I bet I have made at leat 1,000 calls to various shoe companies in the past few years to get sponsorships or to seee if they would develop a shoe for pool players.

Now that it came up again, it reminds me to get on the horn this morning and make some more calls to the shoe companies, soft drink companies, chewing gum companies, stop smoking aid companies and my new favorites POKER SITES and the people at MYSpace.

Wish me luck, and if'ya got any leads (inside contact info) on any companies please forward them to me at vikingtour2@yahoo.com .

 

[cuejoey]

let each person wear comfortable clothing of his or her choosing..........Mike i don't play in tourny's but thank you for all you do for the billiard community..

 

[JAM]

Years ago, somebody came out with some 9-ball shoes. I remember seeing them. They were sneakers with a 9-ball emblem on them. Kind of goofy-looking, but they were around for a spell! Didn't seem to take off, though!

Here's my pipe dream on how to present pool to mainstream America. I say it's a pipe dream because I have no idea how to make it happen, but at any rate, if I could find me a producer, I would be the director!

I'd like to bring in a video camera to the U.S. Open. I would interview a variety pool players on the offs, before, during, and after their matches. Then when the tournament came down to the semi-finals, the semi-finalists would be the ones whose interviews on the offs would be used, the idea being to allow the audience the opportunity to get to know the players, up front and close.

The U.S. Open would be an ideal setting to do this in. If BCn and/or Accu-States were willing, the TV table match recordings could be used in combination with the interviews on the offs. As the audience gets the chance to get to know the players, they may be pulled in to see who wins the U.S. Open championship title. The possibilities for this type of "reality show" are endless.

Imagine, as an example, Shane Van Boeing making it to the semi-finals. The video camera could capture some of his match-ups at Q-Masters on the off hours of the event. He's young, amiable, and shoots pretty doggone good. His television persona might hook a few curious onlookers to see how the young lad fared in the event, wanting to watch the broadcast to its conclusion.

Pool needs a personality. Whether it's a tournament soldier, a roadster, or a stone-cold gambler, people cannot appreciate the players if they don't even know who they are. Only when they get to know the players will they then be interested to learn how well the player shoots; thus, pool being accepted into mainstream America as a sport.

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

let each person wear comfortable clothing of his or her choosing..........Mike i don't play in tourny's but thank you for all you do for the billiard community..

Thanks cuejoey, I humbly accept your compliment.

Now please tell my sponsors that ................


As far as the clothing goes, yes comfortable is good but presentable is much better for everyone. I'm sure if we try, we could develop some minimal clothing guidelines in thios thread that most would agree to. Dont'cha think ?


Mj

 

[StormHotRod300]

The reason the " Action " is such a big topic after a tournament is because pool players have to gamble to make money. Hence a reference to TCOM, a person can get knocked out in the first day and make more money gambling than the winner of the tournament did.

I doubt the prize funds will ever be up to the point that gambling is after thought, because the guys who do tournaments love the pressure or action of gambling.

I seriously think the only way billiards has a way of making it big, is by having one uniformed Tour, and combine the resources so you can get the big sponsors and the big prize funds.

 

[JAM]

...As far as the clothing goes, yes comfortable is good but presentable is much better for everyone. I'm sure if we try, we could develop some minimal clothing guidelines in thios thread that most would agree to. Dont'cha think ?

For the men:

Short-sleeved shirts, polo shirts, shirts with collars or nice Italian knits.

Slacks and pants, no shorts or baggies. Belts must be worn to prevent the pants from revealing one's underwear.

Hats allowed. I see no problem with players who want to wear hats. It is also a good way to advertise for prospective sponsors.

No sandals or open-toed shoes.

Just a few that come to mind!

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

Those sound pretty good Jam.

The next time I do a semi-major event I will use the below dress code and call it the Billiards JAM-boree.

Mj

For the men:

Short-sleeved shirts, polo shirts, shirts with collars or nice Italian knits.

Slacks and pants, no shorts or baggies. Belts must be worn to prevent the pants from revealing one's underwear.

Hats allowed. I see no problem with players who want to wear hats. It is also a good way to advertise for prospective sponsors.

No sandals or open-toed shoes.

Just a few that come to mind!

JAM

 

[gopi-1]

I remember I believe it was the first or second year of this new format Walter Ray Williams Jr, also set the new record for money earned in a year which was over 300,000$, and the next yr he made over 400,000$ !!!!!!!!!

dave

Don't forget that Reyes won over 700 Gs last year, 565,000 from the IPT
alone. One thing unusual is, there was an asterisk (*) that means, "cyber
money"!

 

[Gerry]

I like this thread, and the ideas coming from it. Whoever made the comment about Tiger and Phil NOT gambling? HA! golfers gamble more than pool players. I caddied at Merion Cricket Club for years,and the money that changed hands between Doctors/Lawyers/club Pros and average members was staggering.

I don't think what you wear during events matters either. Pool needs to market to the masses and especially the younger GIANT oversized clothes wearing sect. Look at the poker players wearing all kinds of silly sun glasses, giant hockey jerseys with "Full Tilt" on them, and the public is scrambling to learn Hold'em. I don't think advertisers are hard to find because of the fact that there is nothing to sell, I don't think the right angle has been found or created. Again, look at poker.....not TOO much equipment needed there right!? Could you imagine ANYONE watching poker that was being played for free with no prize money?...yea maybe the guys mom!

In pool we have traditionalists who want to keep the game pure like the image we have from the Mosconi era, nothing wrong with that from a pool enthusiasts point of view...except the masses wont understand it, and will think it's boring as ballroom dancing. Lets not forget, Mosconi and the boys were playing tourneys to WIN money and make a living....or gamble to be accurate.

Then we have GAMBLING "the seedy underbelly" of the game always scoffed at by the purists I feel because thats what has been carrying the game all these years (and they probably can't gamble! ). At the very basic levels, organized pool IS gambling. Leagues, tournaments, quarters on the rail at the bar, I'll playa for a beer, the IPT, they are all about trying to get more back then you put up front....right? which in my book constitutes a wager.

So thats my rant I had to get off my chest when I read someone saying gambling is ruining the game.....not a chance...it needs to be celebrated.

Gerry