Pool in Europe vs USA: 7-foot vs 9-foot tables

mikepage said:
We don't have good data in Georgia, so we are not even close to being able to use Georgia in any kind of meaningful comparison. However, my sense is that serious tournaments and serious play in Georgia is on 9-foot tables, not 7-foot. Look at Mr Cues II in Atlanta with I think 21 9-foot tables, and peruse the events in Georgia Pool Tournaments on facebook. I think Georgia/South Carolina/North Carolina look down their nose at "bar table" play. It is not like the upper midwest.

Netherlands is unique because it is so close to get basically anywhere in the country. The population densities are interesting.

Sweden 26 people per square kilometer
Minnesconsin 33 people per square kilometer

Georgia 55 people per square kilometer
Netherlands 520 people per square kilometer
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WTF is a square kilometer???? gotta talk 'murican on here. ;)
 
Cameron Smith said:
Im wondering if the culture is more similar to snooker. One of my favourite books is Stuart Pettmans “As sometimes seen on tv”. It’s a year and the life of his experience on the pro snooker tour. In the book he regularly discusses how top players would arrange to practice together over a period of time.

Occasionally, they play for a few pounds but nothing remotely resembling the challenge marches we see streamed. My sense is that there are a couple reasons for this. It helps that snooker is centralized within a small area and most of the top players live in relative close proximity. The other aspect is that with the money on offer, the pro tour is the main way of making a living and so the focus is on preparing for those events. And while the money doesn’t trickle down much to the lower rankings, there isnt much motivation for a Judd Trump to play someone for 20k and a 30 point spot.
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Only a handful of players are looking for major money matches here in Finland. The majority of even the top players just play the game and might bet a 5-50 euros/usd per match just to keep the focus over the entire match solid. But playing without any stake (honour and bragging rights) and discussing the game while playing thus enabling learning is pretty common here. Then most pool halls and clubs organize weekly tournaments with a 10-20eur entry fee. Usually they start on weekdays like 6pm and are over around mignight. They are popular for matching up. Most players realize Finland is such a small place to make any substantial income with gambling/hustling and good/top players pretty much know all good players in the country already. So why bother.

Actually, the biggest money matches I have seen have been between mediocre players matching up completely drunk. 😅
 
mikepage said:
We have less data for Finland and could not really make a good comparison. We have to focus on places where we are deep enough to be capturing most of the high level players.
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Exactly. The Finnish scoring system biljardi.org and frequently used cuescore are not linked to Fargo. It’s a shame really because the player and match data exists.
 
All the Americans with good hand eye coordination are playing sports that pay.
The only sport they have in Europe, they use their feet🤣
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
All the Americans with good hand eye coordination are playing sports that pay.
The only sport they have in Europe, they use their feet🤣
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Americans are naturally playing sports that are extremely lucrative... but almost exclusively when played in America. American football, basketball, baseball, ice hockey. Not in Europe. Can't really blame them. Europeans are playing sports that gets you paid... in Europe, like football that is called soccer in the US. There are also a few sports like golf and tennis that provide a good living around the world. Pool is a garbage sport, moneywise :LOL: Most European hockey players are dreaming of playing in NHL to actually make some serious money.
 
mikepage said:
There's few players that respect the game and deserve our respect as much as Mr Tin Man. He has 3,000 games in FargoRate with 547 of them against opponents over 700 on a 7-foot table and 917 of them against opponents over 700 on a 9-foot table. His "performance rating" for those 7-foot table games and those 9-foot table games are both 735 within 2 points. Here are his over-700 opponents.View attachment 796062
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Not sure why you are telling me this. I have no ill will towards him nor you. I will say that every one has thoughts about the game we all love. I think the entire fargo system is no good for pool. Call me old school. Call me whatever you like. I’m 60 and grew up without it. And I haven’t seen anything good come from it.
 
mikepage said:
There's few players that respect the game and deserve our respect as much as Mr Tin Man. He has 3,000 games in FargoRate with 547 of them against opponents over 700 on a 7-foot table and 917 of them against opponents over 700 on a 9-foot table. His "performance rating" for those 7-foot table games and those 9-foot table games are both 735 within 2 points. Here are his over-700 opponents.
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Hi Mike. Thanks for the kind words.

Looking at that list brought back some memories.

You know, I fell short of the goals I naively set for myself when I was a 14 year old, wanting to be the best in the world. I never reached the level I hoped for or got my game looking quite the way I wanted it to look. But I have no regrets. I'm living the life I'm supposed to live and have been blessed with good friends and family and a hobby that still brings me joy. And while I didn't reach the level of the greats, it's an honor to have had the opportunity to share the table with them along the way.

I still want to do a podcast with you. I'll reach out soon. Happy holidays and thanks for all you do!
 
Interesting read. I grew up in the NE suburbs of Minneapolis, and don’t recall there being a pool hall on 40th and Central, (Jimmy’s). After I had relocated to northern Mn, a few sprung up around Spring Lake Park. Doc’s Bohemian Cues had one for awhile, and a sports bar called Biff’s had some tables. CR‘s sports bar is still around near that same area. It was definitely the land of 7’ bar boxes when I was growing up. All of them in bars. On the way back from a hunting trip in high school we stopped at a place in Thief River Falls Mn that had a room full of 9’ Brunswick tables. My first experience on big tables. Fast forward through nearly 50 years of too busy to play much pool family life and hectic work schedules, and I’m ready to put in the time to really learn how to play.
 
white1 said:
Not sure why you are telling me this. I have no ill will towards him nor you. I will say that every one has thoughts about the game we all love. I think the entire fargo system is no good for pool. Call me old school. Call me whatever you like. I’m 60 and grew up without it. And I haven’t seen anything good come from it.
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More people are playing tournaments now than maybe ever. How can that be bad for pool? I'm 64 and have seen pretty much everything in pool and its healthier now than in a LONG time.
 
garczar said:
More people are playing tournaments now than maybe ever. How can that be bad for pool? I'm 64 and have seen pretty much everything in pool and its healthier now than in a LONG time.
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Honestly, I think he's just contrasting why the professional/elite level in the US is not doing well when compared to EU/Asia.

Yes the overall sport at the punter level is doing great and APA/BCA are packing leagues and folks are having a blast and the game at this level is growing in the States vs contracting which is great.

But.... were not translating more people playing with the production of more elite players as well as US pros doing better in global play.

His data is not contradicting your point and the Mosconi Cup kind of proves his.
 
Benelli said:
Honestly, I think he's just contrasting why the professional/elite level in the US is not doing well when compared to EU/Asia.

Yes the overall sport at the punter level is doing great and APA/BCA are packing leagues and folks are having a blast and the game at this level is growing in the States vs contracting which is great.

But.... were not translating more people playing with the production of more elite players as well as US pros doing better in global play.

His data is not contradicting your point and the Mosconi Cup kind of proves his.
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i think the recent junior women champion is american. sofia maste?
 
garczar said:
More people are playing tournaments now than maybe ever. How can that be bad for pool? I'm 64 and have seen pretty much everything in pool and its healthier now than in a LONG time.
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It’s bad for pool because the game has little room now for the hustle bustle days of learning how to match up and play without some type of “let’s get this game a coin flip” with garbage handicapping based on some bogus ratings. I don’t expect you to agree, but I respect you’re right to a different opinion. I don’t think tournaments in general add any value to the game I love and most particularly handicapping them. There is no way pool is healthier now than 30 years ago. Pool rooms are closing so fast the smaller towns have one or none and the large towns have the smallest fraction of what they did have. Pool is not healthier than the 70’s. That’s a fact.
 
Tin Man said:
Hi Mike. Thanks for the kind words.

Looking at that list brought back some memories.

You know, I fell short of the goals I naively set for myself when I was a 14 year old, wanting to be the best in the world. I never reached the level I hoped for or got my game looking quite the way I wanted it to look. But I have no regrets. I'm living the life I'm supposed to live and have been blessed with good friends and family and a hobby that still brings me joy. And while I didn't reach the level of the greats, it's an honor to have had the opportunity to share the table with them along the way.

I still want to do a podcast with you. I'll reach out soon. Happy holidays and thanks for all you do!
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Nicely said Demetrius. Hobby is the key word…..too many game players trying to make a living playing a game for me at least.
 
laedco58 said:
Interesting read. I grew up in the NE suburbs of Minneapolis, and don’t recall there being a pool hall on 40th and Central, (Jimmy’s). After I had relocated to northern Mn, a few sprung up around Spring Lake Park. Doc’s Bohemian Cues had one for awhile, and a sports bar called Biff’s had some tables. CR‘s sports bar is still around near that same area. It was definitely the land of 7’ bar boxes when I was growing up. All of them in bars. On the way back from a hunting trip in high school we stopped at a place in Thief River Falls Mn that had a room full of 9’ Brunswick tables. My first experience on big tables. Fast forward through nearly 50 years of too busy to play much pool family life and hectic work schedules, and I’m ready to put in the time to really learn how to play.
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There's one in Fridley now also (Two Stooges). Haven't been there yet, but I've heard good things. They have 7 and 9 footers (don't know the counts and they aren't on the website).
 
mikepage said:
We don't have good data in Georgia, so we are not even close to being able to use Georgia in any kind of meaningful comparison. However, my sense is that serious tournaments and serious play in Georgia is on 9-foot tables, not 7-foot. Look at Mr Cues II in Atlanta with I think 21 9-foot tables, and peruse the events in Georgia Pool Tournaments on facebook. I think Georgia/South Carolina/North Carolina look down their nose at "bar table" play. It is not like the upper midwest.

Netherlands is unique because it is so close to get basically anywhere in the country. The population densities are interesting.

Sweden 26 people per square kilometer
Minnesconsin 33 people per square kilometer

Georgia 55 people per square kilometer
Netherlands 520 people per square kilometer
Click to expand...
North Carolina is 9' country,
South Carolina is almost exclusively 7' country. Can hardly find a 9' table outside of a couple places in SC.
 
S
laedco58 said:
Interesting read. I grew up in the NE suburbs of Minneapolis, and don’t recall there being a pool hall on 40th and Central, (Jimmy’s). After I had relocated to northern Mn, a few sprung up around Spring Lake Park. Doc’s Bohemian Cues had one for awhile, and a sports bar called Biff’s had some tables. CR‘s sports bar is still around near that same area. It was definitely the land of 7’ bar boxes when I was growing up. All of them in bars. On the way back from a hunting trip in high school we stopped at a place in Thief River Falls Mn that had a room full of 9’ Brunswick tables. My first experience on big tables. Fast forward through nearly 50 years of too busy to play much pool family life and hectic work schedules, and I’m ready to put in the time to really learn how to play.
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Shooters, university billiards, rack em up,....
There used to be so many pool halls in the metro area
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
40-50
20-25 are bar tables
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This discussion actually pushed me to finally get there. This count is about right.
They have Gabriel's 9' tables, which I have never played before. The rail shape was a little odd and it wasn't very clean, but DROP POCKETS!!! I'd ask for their pro cut table if I go back.
I'd put Two Stooges between Jimmy's and Shooters in every category. Sucks that I live in the south metro...
 
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