Pool is almost dead.

[Prey]

10 ball is a pro game. Hi level amateurs, which usually are the ones that fill the field in most us tourny's, do not have an interest in a game they have no chance of winning, much less finish in the top 5. 9 ball and especially 8 ball is the only games that can save pool for the pros. Either embrace it or it shall disappear.

 

[336Robin]

The answer to Pool is simple

First Create and organization and get yourself about 50,000 members.

Charge all of them $50 a year and now you have 2, 500,000.00

Now give them all free pool time, free food and add money to a tournament for all of them and now you have -1,000,000.00

or divide your 2.5 mil up into say 500 salaries of 5000. a piece you now have......0

or you can ask all 50k of your members to donate their $50 a year just so they can get in line and pay to watch the pros play when they come to town.

or could open a small chain of nice pool rooms and watch the people flock in.

or you could buy yourself a pool table for the den and invite friends over to play.

Pool is still around its just not where it used to be.

 

[cubswin]

why do you think pro American players killed the game, how

Promoters not following through on promises, a decent amount of corruption over the years as well.

There really isn't much of a professional tour, good sanctioning body, and tv deals. Not sure how anyone can be considered a professional in pool, as the money isn't there. Sure the top 2 or 3 guys can make a living, but the rest can't. Even bass fishing gets more attention than pool, hell curling gets more attention.

 

[Lesh]

I kinda feel the same way about the possibilities for any real traction for pool. Its such an individual ethical and character dependent situation, seemingly more-so than any other sport or endeavor. I guess the gambling has a lot to do with that part of it. But it does seem that every time there seems to be a little life in the old girl, something happens to end that small interlude of hope.

Some guys friend backs him in a match against that he has no idea that the opponent is actually an older buddy that decides he doesn't need one of his friends as much as he needs $500.00 or even $50,000.00 or any amount of money. It's stupidity. I think we should have a Wall of Shame where people do time on until they make things ah'right here on AZB. To get on the wall you get voted on by the community and get vote off too. Gotta have proof and/or three witnesses. Which shouldn't be too hard to do wince the person being screwed over is usually the only person in the room that doesn't know he is being railed until its all over.

Lesh

 

[Scott Lee]

Which is one reason why you're such a rube, Justin. johnnyt is so out of date, and complains about everything. For one thing, the Jr. Nationals this coming week more than doubled the participation from just last year. Those are just the kids going to the jr. nationals. That itself says there are lots of kids interested in learning, and participating in pool. Mark Wilson's program at Lindenwood University has skyrocketed with young players interested in attending college there. Additionally, there has never been much "player sponsorship", other than 'play with this cue'. You can count on one hand, the number of American pro players getting any kind of real sponsorship...about the same as it was 30 years ago. Don't believe everything you read!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

This is all very sad, and I believe everything that you said.

 

[chefjeff]

I'm not saying that this is the fault of the promoter of this event but I think promoters should be using social media like Facebook to advertise their events. I'm not talking about putting out a flyer on their webpage and just leaving it hang there.

Promoters have to promote and that means work. Some don't want to do the work and the results are what they are.

Some of the live streamers do a good job of promoting the events they are streaming while others seem to think that if I stream it, they will watch. That isn't true either.

I think promoting a pool event is a lot more work than most people want to do.

JoeyA

BINGO!!!!!

Marketing hold the highest value in any business, yet it is often the least understood or put forth, due to ignorance or laziness or money or time or some other thing that CAN be overcome.

'If you build it, they will come' isn't a good bet.


Jeff Livingston

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Which is one reason why you're such a rube, Justin. johnnyt is so out of date, and complains about everything. For one thing, the Jr. Nationals this coming week more than doubled the participation from just last year. Those are just the kids going to the jr. nationals. That itself says there are lots of kids interested in learning, and participating in pool. Mark Wilson's program at Lindenwood University has skyrocketed with young players interested in attending college there. Additionally, there has never been much "player sponsorship", other than 'play with this cue'. You can count on one hand, the number of American pro players getting any kind of real sponsorship...about the same as it was 30 years ago. Don't believe everything you read!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Well said, Mr. Lee.
It's all a matter of perspective-glass half full or empty.
Lots of interest in youth of America, Europe, Asia....I believe pool is now being recognized as more of a sport with an athletic approach (workouts, health, training regiments, etc). The lull has been a changing of the guard in a ways, from gambling and smoke filled rooms to family events with players with kids, young players with parents, all interested.

Mark Wilson's legacy will be in this area, college pool athletics, and it will resonate for decades.

 

[chefjeff]

Which is one reason why you're such a rube, Justin. johnnyt is so out of date, and complains about everything. For one thing, the Jr. Nationals this coming week more than doubled the participation from just last year. Those are just the kids going to the jr. nationals. That itself says there are lots of kids interested in learning, and participating in pool. Mark Wilson's program at Lindenwood University has skyrocketed with young players interested in attending college there. Additionally, there has never been much "player sponsorship", other than 'play with this cue'. You can count on one hand, the number of American pro players getting any kind of real sponsorship...about the same as it was 30 years ago. Don't believe everything you read!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Our city is on fire with pool right now. The event at Big Dog's last week was awesome with pro players and about 200 great shooting amateurs playing and the room full of spectators and lurkers. Our city has well over a dozen leagues now going year-round with lots of players having fun and getting better and learning what real pool is all about.

It wasn't close to this big back when the TCOM came out. I say the promoters of the leagues and now the big events are the reason why this is so. As players become better they can appreciate the skill level of the pros and come to see it and support it.

Contact the guys at Dog's if you want to know what they're doing.

Jeff Livingston

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Which is one reason why you're such a rube, Justin. johnnyt is so out of date, and complains about everything. For one thing, the Jr. Nationals this coming week more than doubled the participation from just last year. Those are just the kids going to the jr. nationals. That itself says there are lots of kids interested in learning, and participating in pool. Mark Wilson's program at Lindenwood University has skyrocketed with young players interested in attending college there. Additionally, there has never been much "player sponsorship", other than 'play with this cue'. You can count on one hand, the number of American pro players getting any kind of real sponsorship...about the same as it was 30 years ago. Don't believe everything you read!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott, I have no argument with what you said, including Justin being a rube, and Johnny being out of date. He's a hundred years old for crissakes. But, in all honesty I think you're a tad myopic here.
The Jr. Nationals is fine business, but how many entries are there? A hundred. A hundred-fifty? Spread that group (along with the ones who didn't qualify for the tournament) across the United States and it won't even make a bump on the graph of new pool players.
Also, Coach Wilson has how many players on his team? Six boys and six girls? That's hardly a representation of the vast army of new players to come.
My local pool room has sixteen Gold Crowns which is fairly large for a pool hall these days, and it serves a city of about 175,000 residents, not counting the surrounding area.
Currently there are two players, under the age of twenty who come in to play pool. That's it. Just two. :smile:

 

[Scott Lee]

Actually Tramp, there are almost 200 kids attending the jr. nationals. That's pretty good participation if you ask me, especially these kids are all winners at their local level. Two years ago Mark had 39 kids in his collegiate program...half of which were on scholarship. That's a hell of a lot more than 12. I hear about kids all over the country excited about a chance to go to college at Lindenwood. In every competitive environment you will have the ones that get to "compete", and those that 'sit on the bench' so to speak. Pool is no different. Everyone competes against each other at Lindenwood...only some get to travel to compete. No different than any other sport. The point is that it is growing...not dying. The fact that you have no young people in your poolroom speaks to the motivation of the adults in your area. If they don't give a crap, neither will the young people. YOU could do something about it if you really wanted to.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott, I have no argument with what you said, including Justin being a rube, and Johnny being out of date. He's a hundred years old for crissakes. But, in all honesty I think you're a tad myopic here.
The Jr. Nationals is fine business, but how many entries are there? A hundred. A hundred-fifty? Spread that group (along with the ones who didn't qualify for the tournament) across the United States and it won't even make a bump on the graph of new pool players.
Also, Coach Wilson has how many players on his team? Six boys and six girls? That's hardly a representation of the vast army of new players to come.
My local pool room has sixteen Gold Crowns which is fairly large for a pool hall these days, and it serves a city of about 175,000 residents, not counting the surrounding area.
Currently there are two players, under the age of twenty who come in to play pool. That's it. Just two. :smile:

 

[JoeyA]

Fluff Money...............AMATEURS

You make excellent points.

I too believe that unless professional pool/promoters embrace amateurs, having successful pool events is a lost cause. It's unfortunate but it is the way it is. I know it's difficult for professional players to occasionally get spanked by amateurs in pool tournaments but without that fluff money from the amateurs, there will be no events for the pros to play in unless they want to travel around the world.

JoeyA

10 ball is a pro game. Hi level amateurs, which usually are the ones that fill the field in most us tourny's, do not have an interest in a game they have no chance of winning, much less finish in the top 5. 9 ball and especially 8 ball is the only games that can save pool for the pros. Either embrace it or it shall disappear.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Actually Tramp, there are almost 200 kids attending the jr. nationals. That's pretty good participation if you ask me, especially these kids are all winners at their local level. Two years ago Mark had 39 kids in his collegiate program...half of which were on scholarship. That's a hell of a lot more than 12. I hear about kids all over the country excited about a chance to go to college at Lindenwood. In every competitive environment you will have the ones that get to "compete", and those that 'sit on the bench' so to speak. Pool is no different. Everyone competes against each other at Lindenwood...only some get to travel to compete. No different than any other sport. The point is that it is growing...not dying. The fact that you have no young people in your poolroom speaks to the motivation of the adults in your area. If they don't give a crap, neither will the young people. YOU could do something about it if you really wanted to.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I'm only playing the Devil's advocate, here. I think it's good to have these discussions, and in my view that's precisely what this forum is about.
However, I still think you're several thousand kids short.
In addition, and unlike you, I don't have a vested interest in the yoots of today. Hell, I barely even like the little crumb crunchers.
Count me as less than optimistic.

 

[SE7EN]

1,033 Watching Pov Pool
:wink:

 

[hotrod622]

45 man field for that kind of prize money is very low even for summer. My question would be who came up with the added money because that person is hurting and you're likely not to see that again. What was the entry fee? From the payouts it should have been around 500 which probably kept a lot of players at bay as well.

Tournaments in California still field close to 100 players. If you don't belive me, check out the next Mezz Tournamnet. They have been growing steadily. I had every intention of playing this event in Fremont but circumstances prevented me from taking off work on Friday. In addition, Brendan Corckett's Memorial was this weekend. I am sure a lot of players from the LA area would have come were it not for that. I think this tournament just suffered some unforseen circumstances. There is another tournament of the same nature in LA this coming weekend that will probably draw twice as many people with only half the added money and the exact same entry. Again, I would attend this one as well if it started on Saturday instead of Friday. The other problem is for me personally, there are a lot of tournaments going on in California right now. As a full time employee I have to pick and choose which ones I can attend as it does become very costly. At this time I personally choose to attend the Mezz Tournaments. Which unfortunately leaves out others. This is not all due to costs either. I also have a family and can only donate so much of my time to the game. I do not think Pool is dead, I think it is thriving. As a result another tour is starting up in Northern California also. My only hope is that these two tour do not start competing with each other and drive each other out of business. Most players in California that support Pool tournaments are full time workers. If you flood the market with tournaments there is no way we can support them all. One or both is bound to fail.

 

[bad_hit]

1,033 Watching Pov Pool
:wink:

In a country of 320,000,000 (0.000323%)...in a world of 7,400,000,000.

The only hope is probably the Jr. programs, support them.

 

[JoeyA]

Our city is on fire with pool right now. The event at Big Dog's last week was awesome with pro players and about 200 great shooting amateurs playing and the room full of spectators and lurkers. Our city has well over a dozen leagues now going year-round with lots of players having fun and getting better and learning what real pool is all about.

It wasn't close to this big back when the TCOM came out. I say the promoters of the leagues and now the big events are the reason why this is so. As players become better they can appreciate the skill level of the pros and come to see it and support it.

Contact the guys at Dog's if you want to know what they're doing.

Jeff Livingston

I think PoolActionTv.com has a little something to do with the success of Big Dog's events or I'm missing my guess.

JoeyA

 

[buzzsaw]

We have three kids from our room going to the Jr's. Very talented group.

 

[336Robin]

Not our problem here

I wish we had your problem in NC. 1 tour here and he has a lot of stops and travels quite a bit. I think tour players are thinning out the last 3 yrs.

Tournaments in California still field close to 100 players. If you don't belive me, check out the next Mezz Tournamnet. They have been growing steadily. I had every intention of playing this event in Fremont but circumstances prevented me from taking off work on Friday. In addition, Brendan Corckett's Memorial was this weekend. I am sure a lot of players from the LA area would have come were it not for that. I think this tournament just suffered some unforseen circumstances. There is another tournament of the same nature in LA this coming weekend that will probably draw twice as many people with only half the added money and the exact same entry. Again, I would attend this one as well if it started on Saturday instead of Friday. The other problem is for me personally, there are a lot of tournaments going on in California right now. As a full time employee I have to pick and choose which ones I can attend as it does become very costly. At this time I personally choose to attend the Mezz Tournaments. Which unfortunately leaves out others. This is not all due to costs either. I also have a family and can only donate so much of my time to the game. I do not think Pool is dead, I think it is thriving. As a result another tour is starting up in Northern California also. My only hope is that these two tour do not start competing with each other and drive each other out of business. Most players in California that support Pool tournaments are full time workers. If you flood the market with tournaments there is no way we can support them all. One or both is bound to fail.

 

[frankncali]

Tournaments are tough to field period. Who gets in them?
Players who can finish in the money or high in the money doesn't really represent too many of the general playing population.

Players play to support their lock room and not be left out.

Players play for experience with little or no prayer of winning.

I think it depends on pricing. Its a fine line between someone being okay with spending or wasting money and not doing so. Most of every field is fillers and guys that might place in the last group.

In the late 80s and early 90s I played more pool and often got in tournaments to support the rooms/tournaments or promoters. I wasn't alone. We got a chance to play with or next to great players. However it was between $40 and $60 bucks max. We traveled and got $35-50 rooms and could still get the daily double. Everything was much cheaper.

Now I play at a B+ish type rating and have a solid job and own a business as well. I still look at the prices of tournaments when thinking about playing and at $85-$125 plus expenses its hard to justify when I have almost no chance of doing well.

I haven't been playing much serious or regional level pool for a while so I am not a great example but I think there are many many more social players now than there were back a decade or two ago. The social league guy is hige now but the group between that level and a regionally competitive (just to place) level seems to be down to 10-20% of what it used to be.

Combine a smaller populous with higher expenses and in all honestly more things going on its a wonder pool tournaments still exist.

I wonder how many leagues or rooms or bars in the area of the tournament helped promote it or hold a raffle for a spot in it.

 

[Johnnyt]

Tournaments are tough to field period. Who gets in them?
Players who can finish in the money or high in the money doesn't really represent too many of the general playing population.

Players play to support their lock room and not be left out.

Players play for experience with little or no prayer of winning.

I think it depends on pricing. Its a fine line between someone being okay with spending or wasting money and not doing so. Most of every field is fillers and guys that might place in the last group.

In the late 80s and early 90s I played more pool and often got in tournaments to support the rooms/tournaments or promoters. I wasn't alone. We got a chance to play with or next to great players. However it was between $40 and $60 bucks max. We traveled and got $35-50 rooms and could still get the daily double. Everything was much cheaper.

Now I play at a B+ish type rating and have a solid job and own a business as well. I still look at the prices of tournaments when thinking about playing and at $85-$125 plus expenses its hard to justify when I have almost no chance of doing well.

I haven't been playing much serious or regional level pool for a while so I am not a great example but I think there are many many more social players now than there were back a decade or two ago. The social league guy is hige now but the group between that level and a regionally competitive (just to place) level seems to be down to 10-20% of what it used to be.

Combine a smaller populous with higher expenses and in all honestly more things going on its a wonder pool tournaments still exist.

I wonder how many leagues or rooms or bars in the area of the tournament helped promote it or hold a raffle for a spot in it.

Good post, and I agree 100%. I just want to add that the dead money guys are getting smarter or cheaper and pick and choose the best tournaments for them. I never could see as a "B" player why I should enter a tournament where I had to play a top pro even and go 2 and out most of the time, when I can go to many poolrooms and play a set or 3 getting a spot for the same money. Why spend all that money for entry, travel, hotel, and food to not have a chance of cashing. Johnnyt