Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games

[Johnnyt]

That is a great point. Can pool be considered one of the toughest sports if men can be competitive in their senior years?

It's not easy to reach an elite level of any activity but to use that as a reason to claim that pool is one of the hardest sports is incorrect.

I said hardest game to get good at...not hardest on your body.

 

[KRJ]

I assume you've achieved some success in at least 50 sports to make this statement.


If you're talking about simply accomplishments, I'd say bowling is much easier to master than pool...and I do speak from experience here.

Nope, just going by a study done by Sports Illustrated... pool was not in the top 50... sorry.

And, yes, pool more difficult than bowling... I can get on board with that one

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Well, you finally figured it out... it does start to wane for professional athletes, pool players actually get better as they age... hell, Earl is still competing with the best at 52 years old....

I'll teach Brian Urlacher how to play pool during his retirement years, and you teach Can Wang to play LB in the NFL... we'll see who makes it first or dies trying

I think we might have got our debate topics mixed up...

I am making the assertion only that top pool players by default have the same basic set of tools that all elite athletes have...

1. Phenomenal hand-eye coordination

2. Phenomenal muscle memory

3. Fast twitch reflexes (Johnny Archer had this when younger, i.e. hand speed on the break.. Not sure about SVB, because I think it is a diferent break style..)

4. Horribly strong mental game

5. Overall phenomenal kinesthetic sense i.e. "body awareness" kinesthesia

Therefore, it follows logically that at the highest levels, that these traits are required to play at a championship level. People who do not have them do not become pool champions, by and large. People who have them, but have horrible mechanics (Tommy Kennedy) can still play at a near champion level. (Tommy did win a US Open 9 Ball championship, and does win a lot of tourneys still in Florida, but I would consider him to be "near champion" speed still...) Mike Davis is another example.

So, if all these physical advantages are required to play championship pool, and these traits are shared by elite athletes everywhere, then it also follows that had these champion poolplayers chosen another sport when they were younger, they may very well be top competitors in those sports as well.

As far as the "difficulty" of pool versus other games.. Well, I submit again that the top players possess the same basic physical traits as those in other sports.. Those who do not possess these don't succeed long term. There must be something awfully difficult about the game for that reason.

The game is less impactful on the human body, it must be noted. That is the only reason poolplayers can compete well into advanced age.

I believe that a lot of other sports rely heavily on the set of physical traits that lends to split-second reaction, which is a combination of hand-eye coordination, fast twitch reflexes, and reaction speed. This makes a young body pretty much mandatory, which also means that if you did not focus on this sport at a young age, you have no chance.

Some sports or sports positions rely more on size, physicality, and maintaining muscle memory.. Think Shaq.... He played to an older age because his size and physicality allowed him to get to the basket for a layup. If his muscle memory was better and he could therefore shoot free throws better, he might have been even more dominant than he already was.

I think that it is unknown whether pool players have the physical skill to compete in "fast twitch response" sports or not... To say they absolutely cannot when most of the champions are 30+ is a bit of a disigenuous argument.. As the time for competing at those sports in generally past in the larger competitive population.

I do believe that "fast twitch response" ability does usually come wrapped up with overall athletic ability, however.

I myself don't think it is fair to say that just because a sport involves fast reaction speed, it is automatically harder. It just means it is "different" than one that requires near perfect muscle memory over a long career.

Just as SVB will never hit a 95MPH slider, Nolan Ryan will never win 15 Golf Majors, and Tiger Woods will never run a 13 pack on another pro whilst down one set when playing for thousands.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

 

[Donny Lutz]

Millions

lol. that's just plain silly. Actually, most don't keep up with baseball, football, and hockey, because of the difficulty level. Any teenagers playing pro ball?

Heck, you could take SVB and train him with the best baseball coaches on the planet, and he is still is not hitting a 95 splitter or slider, or striking out Miguel Cabrera... He would not even make our local HS team with a year of professional training.

But I bet I can teach Cal Ripken to run a few racks.... You think there is a reason why pool players play for peanuts, and baseball, football, and hockey and golf play for MILLIONS. If Earl could play pro tennis, he'd give up pool in a heart beat.

I'm not sure that some sports pay more because they're more difficult. Has much more to do with fan appeal and corporate promotion.

 

[Johnnyt]

Sorry folks. Pool is not even in the top 50 sports of difficulty. Number one belongs to baseball according to an extensive research by Sports Illustrated. The hand eye coordination and the speed to actually hit a 90 MPH slider is ungodly.

The human eye can't even track the baseball for the last 5 feet, and thus why the pitchers with balls the break the latest, pitch the best.

I believe pool was rated just about fishing in terms of difficulty, but way below cheerleading.

Now, that is not a knock on pool, it takes a lot of time to be great at anything. But how many 19 year old pitchers can compete against the BEST hitters in the game. There is a reason why they throw $100 million dollar contract around the MLB like they are nickels, cause there are only some many folks that can play at that level.

Same with football. There are only some many folks that can play QB in the NFL, even most of the best college QB's fail in the NFL.

Heck, even Earl Strickland knows it takes more skill to play gold and tennis than pool, and he happens to be pretty good at both of them...

Fishing is harder to get good at than pool? I was born and raised on the water and fished almost everyday from 8 years old to 13. I don't know where SI got their facts...but they are very wrong. And Earl says Pool is harder than golf and tennis. Johnnyt

 

[KRJ]

To be emotionally involved in the outcome of a baseball swing is not the same thing as to use the subconscious ability to execute the shot and get position.

The physical component refers to the use and control of fine motor coordination.

OH, you mean like throwing a baseball 60'6" at a target that is 17 inches wide, and trying to recall exactly what that batters tendencies are, what did he do last time up, what did he did three weeks ago when I pitched to him, how he swings, who is on base, what the count is, what the score is, who is up next, is the guy leading off first base to far, what happens if he bunts, and what if he hits it back at my head,,,

And then have to throw it not on the 17 inches, but on the corners of the 17 inches, at a high rate of speed, with much break in the ball to allow the batter to miss, but still hitting that corner for strike.... yep, nothing mental there at all

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Nope, just going by a study done by Sports Illustrated... pool was not in the top 50... sorry.

And, yes, pool more difficult than bowling... I can get on board with that one

Dude.. seriously... you are basing your argument on Sports Illustrated... a commerical magazine? And the fact that you repeated this multiple times as the basis of your argument... I dunno.. I just find that amusing.

Sports Illustrated is gonna report on the sports that make it the most money for reporting on them.. Football, Baseball, Basketball, and some Golf...

ANYTHING else the magazine prints is just filler fluff.. I mean, yeah, the writer will put a "little" work into making the story/study sound legitimate, but in the end, people want to know what Peyton Manning has to say about winning, not whether pool or tetherball is more difficult.

And "difficulty" is totally subjective. I have already noted a few accomplishment in a few non-impact sports that the impact stars will never accomplish. I say again.. SI is gonna report favorably on the sports it has the most contact with and that it makes the most money off of.

Hardly the organization to be doing an objective study on what is inherently a subjective judgement.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

 

[(((Satori)))]

I said hardest game to get good at...not hardest on your body.

And I meant hardest to get good at.

It is a sport where one mistake cost you precious seconds or one mental laps could send you to the dirt.. The techniques for cornering, making your way through the whoops, executing a variety of jumps, handling a variety of surfaces, visualizing your lines, visualizing your rythem from section to section all make it a tougher sport to learn or get to the elite level. And of course it is physically more demanding and that doesnt just mean tough on your body.


Pool is easy. Relax, see the shot, execute, repeat.

The funny thing is you guys think I'm some supercross rider or something and don't understand your sport. I did very little amatuer racing but pool is my thing and my love. That's not going to stop me from saying it is easier than a sport like Supercross though.

 

[Johnnyt]

I was a competition diver as a kid, even won a few titles. I have played tennis and golf reasonably well. Of all the sports I have played, pool is by far the most difficult and the most enjoyable. Pool requires exquisite control of mind and body that other sports do not require.

Diving (my favorite sport after pool) requires control of the body's fine and gross motor skills. Once mastered it is matter of muscle memory. With pool the subconscious mind and its ability to control fine motor skills must be mastered, an extremely difficult task more on the order of eastern meditational philosophies.

I do not know what the most difficult sports would be, high diving, which I did for years, requires motor control and mastery of fear, not much more. Pool may or may not be the most difficult sport but it definitely up near the top.

Thank you. you got my point. Johnnyt

 

[KRJ]

I'm not sure that some sports pay more because they're more difficult. Has much more to do with fan appeal and corporate promotion.

skill level usually factors in as well, you know that..... if the main sports were not that difficult, everyone would do it, everyone would get a pay day...

Must be a reason pool and bowling, which are played by over 30 million folks every year, still is not popular.... just saying

 

[KRJ]

And I meant hardest to get good at.

It is a sport where one mistake cost you precious seconds or one mental laps could send you to the dirt.. The techniques for cornering, making your way through the whoops, executing a variety of jumps, handling a variety of surfaces, visualizing your lines, visualizing your rythem from section to section. It is a lot tougher sport to learn, get to the elite level, or tough on your body.


Pool is easy. Relax, see the shot, execute, repeat.

The funny thing is you guys think I'm some supercross rider or something and don't understand your sport. I did very little amatuer racing but pool is my thing and my love. That's not going to stop me from saying it is easier than a sport like Supercross though.

Yeah, super cross is crazy skilled and done by crazy people ( I mean that in a positive way).... there is not enough money to pay me to even attempt the shit they do.....I've never done it, but I've watched it.... very cool, very difficult and very dangerous..... I'd rather take a fast ball to the head... it would be much safer

 

[ShortBusRuss]

skill level usually factors in as well, you know that..... if the main sports were not that difficult, everyone would do it, everyone would get a pay day...

Must be a reason pool and bowling, which are played by over 30 million folks every year, still is not popular.... just saying

Yes, there is a reason. A repetitive motion and fairly boring action.

Again, you are using false logic... They are both fairly low impact sports, which leads to more participation.... Stilll a miniscule fraction of the populace with ever carry over a 270 average.. Comparable to the percentages of accomplishments in other sports. A miniscule percentage of the population will ever run 5 racks in 9 ball, even WITH the break mechanics we have these days.

People watch football because it is fast, people get hit hard, and it is us vs them.. That's IT. It is marketed well base don those properties, so it makes money. People don't generally PLAY football, even on their own, because they value their bodies. Kids who play it have a lot of testosterone, and little sense.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

 

[KRJ]

Dude.. seriously... you are basing your argument on Sports Illustrated... a commerical magazine? And the fact that you repeated this multiple times as the basis of your argument... I dunno.. I just find that amusing.


Short Bus Russ - C Player

And my own personal experience playing and coaching both sports... but I noticed you kinda skipped right over that part....

I believe I could teach someone to become a top pro from the age of 15 in pool, by the time there were 21, if they put the time and commitment in.. But in baseball, it would be still be a million to one shot, even with my expert tutelage

 

[KRJ]

Yes, there is a reason. A repetitive motion and fairly boring action.

Again, you are using false logic... They are both fairly low impact sports, which leads to more participation.... Stilll a miniscule fraction of the populace with ever carry over a 270 average.. Comparable to the percentages of accomplishments in other sports. A miniscule percentage of the population will ever run 5 racks in 9 ball, even WITH the break mechanics we have these days.

People watch football because it is fast, people get hit hard, and it is us vs them.. That's IT. It is marketed well base don those properties, so it makes money. People don't generally PLAY football, even on their own, because they value their bodies. Kids who play it have a lot of testosterone, and little sense.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

It leads to more participation because more folks are able to play the game... but even folks that play the game of pool do NOT want to watch others play the game...... and thus, why pool is NOT on TV often, and usually only as filler because they got nothing else going on.....

We had two hall of famers in our pool room a few years, and it was like pulling teeth to get folks to watch them give a FREE exhibition.... and that included players on other tables that didn't bother to walk 15 feet to see them, even after I told them who there were.....wtf ???

 

[(((Satori)))]

Yeah, super cross is crazy skilled and done by crazy people ( I mean that in a positive way).... there is not enough money to pay me to even attempt the shit they do.....I've never done it, but I've watched it.... very cool, very difficult and very dangerous..... I'd rather take a fast ball to the head... it would be much safer

The elite level racers are crazy fast too. Great racers are getting lapped in Supercross. No doubt JoeW understands this with 30 yrs "off track" experience.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

And my own personal experience playing and coaching both sports... but I noticed you kinda skipped right over that part....

I believe I could teach someone to become a top pro from the age of 15 in pool, by the time there were 21, if they put the time and commitment in.. But in baseball, it would be still be a million to one shot, even with my expert tutelage

A "top pro"? So by that, I assume you mean someone along the lines of an Archer, SVB, Bustamente, Reyes, Parica, Wu, etc..etc...etc...

You are out of your mind if you think you could just "coach" someone, no matter how motivated they are, and think you have even a remote chance of building someone the likes of the above players.

There are so many elements to their game beyond shotmaking and breaking, which I am pretty sure you are not even aware of in order to coach your teen on them.

You'd have to START OUT as a pretty strong shortstop to even think about coaching a teen up to a top player.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

 

[John Brumback]

I dare say that any sport or game that cannot be perfected is hard.Example...pool,golf,ping pong,tennis, hell even fishing.I could go on.The first person that perfects any of those games or sports.. got a hundo coming from me:thumbup: Good luck. John B.

 

[KRJ]

A "top pro"? So by that, I assume you mean someone along the lines of an Archer, SVB, Bustamente, Reyes, Parica, Wu, etc..etc...etc...

You are out of your mind if you think you could just "coach" someone, no matter how motivated they are, and think you have even a remote chance of building someone the likes of the above players.

There are so many elements to their game beyond shotmaking and breaking, which I am pretty sure you are not even aware of in order to coach your teen on them.

You'd have to START OUT as a pretty strong shortstop to even think about coaching a teen up to a top player.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

But they all made it, right ??? so, you are saying with a student just as eager, just as dedicated, and with a full time coach, working with a student 5 days a week, you could NOT turn them in to a pro player ?? you outta your mind if you think someone could not.....

 

[JB Cases]

Wu is one in a million and natural talent bigtime. Johnnyt

Who just HAPPENS to have had a TON of training before he won the WC in his home country.

Funny how everyone who is good is a "natural", then we see that somehow they put in 10k hours before they won.

 

[KRJ]

I dare say that any sport or game that cannot be perfected is hard.Example...pool,golf,ping pong,tennis, hell even fishing.I could go on.The first person that perfects any of those games or sports.. got a hundo coming from me:thumbup: Good luck. John B.

Yep, I agree... just some require more skill than others....nothing wrong with that...and it does not take away from the folks that are pro in any sport...

heck, even the curling "pros" got a gold medal at the last Olympics