Pool Is One Of The Hardest Games

[KRJ]

And you can teach any kid to ride a bike, hit a baseball, or shoot a pool shot in about ten minutes. None of that says anything about what it takes to master the sport.

I think pro players have fewer coaches because of the required mental components that must be learned through trial and error with one's own head. The basic requirements are not difficult ,mastery is another matter. The idea that pro players do not have ongoing coaches says much about the mental game.

So, why would you believe pool to be more difficult than other sports if you can teach everyone all sports in only minutes ??

If pool was more difficult, one could logically argue, they are better athletes or surely better competitors, why not put all that skill and mental toughness into something that pays the bills ? Something that could make you a multi millionaire, living in a mansion, driving a Rolls Royce and sleeping with super models... I know it's a tough choice between that and sleeping in your buddy's 72 VW van, and getting the occasion BJ from bar flies, but c'mon

 

[jaetee]

Pool can be an occasional recreation to pass time.
Pool can be a serious hobby.
And it seems pool can be somewhat of a vocation, but only for an increasingly "elite" few.

I think pool is an easy game in terms of learning just enough to get to a point where you can have a good time being competitive among the masses and "think" you're good... But at the same time, it's among the most difficult to truly master.

And the lines between the various levels of play at the very top of the echelon can be very fuzzy. That's where people start to debate the virtues of being the best money player vs. the tournament player, etc...

I think an important aspect of pool which gives it such great appeal is that it's also one of the cheapest non-team games you can get into that will eat up humongous chunks of time. And it's one of the few you can also play/practice on your own. In those rights, it can be quite a "cost effective" hobby. I've heard some people refer to pool as golf's blue-collar little brother...

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Heck, you could take SVB and train him with the best baseball coaches on the planet, and he is still is not hitting a 95 splitter or slider, or striking out Miguel Cabrera... He would not even make our local HS team with a year of professional training.

Wow.. A LOT of passive-aggressivenesss going on here...

I am curious as to what you base your assumptions on? I am a man of science, so before I make a Declarative statement such as yours, I require an abundance of proof that conforms to a pretty high standard.

Have you seen SVB trip over his own feet?

Have you competed against SVB in some sort of fast twitch reflex competition and easily bested him?

Have you directly observed SVB performing poorly in some sort of exercie that tests overall hand-eye coordination and muscle response?

I call a spade a spade. Top athletes perform well because of two things:

1. They have the physical tools to perform at a high level. Hand-eye coordination in the top 1% of the population. Fast nerve impulse communication from the brian to the muscles. Muscle memory in the top 1% of the population.

2. They have top mental games, due to various psychological factors. The ability to perform at 100% capacity under pressure.

That's IT. It's simple science, for the most part.

So, I am curious... Obviously, SVB has #2 down pat.

Therefore, we must be debating #1 only. So, I say again... Have you directly observed SVB performing in such a way that would make you believe him to have no other chance in another sport?

I seem to remember Bo Jackson played mutiple sports at a high level, right? I also seem to remember he had a high interest in multiple sports, as well, which is a HUGE factor. You can't reach a top level at something you don't LOVE. There are some sports that are so demanding that age is a factor.. (Snooker, for the eyes.. Pro Football, for the overhealth physical responsiveness and reflex speed, etc..etc..)

I might agree with you on SVB not being able to hit that 95 MPH slider, but ONLY because his is in his 30s, and his reflexes are simply too deteriorated at his age, so that no matter what his inherent level of talent is, he no longer possess the basic physical tools..

But I bet I can teach Cal Ripken to run a few racks....

Yeah, someone "taught a few strong shortstops to run a few racks" too... And they will get smoked in every major they ever play in, and will never reach the level of play of SVB/Johnny Archer/Earl Strickland.

There is a big difference between playing pool "competently" and playing at a championship level.

You think there is a reason why pool players play for peanuts, and baseball, football, and hockey and golf play for MILLIONS. If Earl could play pro tennis, he'd give up pool in a heart beat.

I can't begin to measure the level of ignorance of this first sentence. They play for peanuts ONLY because baseball, football, hockey, and golf are more marketable and are watched by fans in larger amounts. Humans are an aggressive "us vs them" species, and that lends itself well to supporting team-based sports. Golf is popular for other reasons, but it's tendency to be played by the "upper-crust" of business persons maintians it's popularity, as a means to get away from the office during the workday and close a million dollar deal.

Note that the popularity of these sports and their marketability have NOTHING to do with their difficulty. People watch team sports so they can see "their team" beat "the other guys". These sports play on the natural evolutionary based anti-outsider mentality almost all animals are born with.

Golf is popular for economic reasons... Tennis is popular because it is fast paced, a lot going on.

Yes, pool is not popular, therefore poolplayers don't get paid well.

Your statement that Earl would cross over into tennis in a heartbeat if he had the ability is INSANE. You are putting this forth as "proof" that pool players do not have the tools to compete in other sports because their game is not as hard.

The only thing I see is that Earl is FAR TOO OLD to compete in tennis, even if born with the ability of Sampras or Agassi.

Dude, seriously.. You need to work on your logical arguments and stay within the frame of the debate.

I submit that top physical talent is top physical talent, and that a subsection of THAT talent is going to have a strong mental game. Period. If one of these people gets into pool early on, they will become a pool champion. if they get into Golf instead, they will become a Golf champion.

If they have the physical frame for football, and they have been working out in a proper manner since their mid teens, they will become a good footballer.

You seem to be one of those people, that although you hang out on a pool forum, you don't think much of pool players, even at the highest level. You don't have a lot of concrete evidence to support that the physical talents of top pool players don't have crossover values to other sports, although we have multiple champion pool players who are scratch golfers or better.

Just like it took Johnny Archer years to combine both his physical game and his mental game, and took him competing against loads of top players before he could win, it takes young golf phenoms a few years of competition before they can win. (Unless they happen to be Tiger Woods)

The difference between pool and golf is that it is MUCH more expensive to get the requisite "seasoning" at golf than it is at pool. In pool, you just need entry fees to as many tournaments as you can make, and in Johnny Archer's early career, gas was $1.00 a gallon and hotels were $30.00 a night. Not prohibitively expensive.

To even GET on the PGA Tour, there is Q-School, or whatever it is called.

I had a friend in Iraq serving as a contractor who shoots in the 60's in golf.. He had $100,000 in the bank, and I have no doubt he could have made it on the tour, but he had a family to support, and was not in the circumstances to give it a try.

Just like young people and college... If you don't make it happen in sports/games when you are 16-22, it ain't generally gonna happen. This is more a matter of a young person's ability to take financial chances and free time to compete, than innate ability.

I think the fact that even taking up the game in their mid 20's in a lot of cases, the fact that so many pool players are scratch golfers is a testament to the fact that they most likely would have been fine players in ANY sport they might have chosen when younger.

Short Bus Russ - C Player

P.S. I'll cut you some slack, though.. You ARE from Chicago, after all.... The birthplace of National Socialism in America... :grin-square:

 

[JoeW]

Life is not about making money. In my life the challenge, ethical, physical and mental are much more important. If you love what you do and are willing to spend the time mastering whatever it is, you will make money.

Those who truly love what they do are better at it than others because they spend the extraordinary amounts of time and effort required. You see, you must love what you do or you will not put forth the effort. The money required to live a good life will follow.

You can take that to the bank :grin-square:

First you must be at peace and loved by your family (whoever they are). If they support you then you can spend the fantastic amounts of time required to master your interest, the necessary money will follow. This last comment is the conclusion of some of the most intelligent people at the end of their lives when they were asked "What makes a good life?"

 

[franko]

Agree

I don’t know why so many on here and in the poolrooms get so upset with themselves because they can’t run 100+ in 14.1, 4 or 5 racks of 9 ball in a few years in such an easy game as pool. Pool is not easy. IMO pool is one of the hardest games to become a top player in. There are so many things you need to know and be able to do perfectly compared to most other sports and games. This is one thing I’ll never understand about pool. Most people seem to think pool should be a piece of cake to get good at in a very short time, and that is the farthest thing from the truth. Just getting the basics down perfectly takes a lot of time and practice. I’ve played and watched just about every major and semi-major sport and can not think of one that you have to do so many things perfectly right. Johnnyt

I agree with you. A friend of mine was a professional bowler and a par golfer, when he was asked which of the 3 was the hardest he said Pool. In Bowling and Golf you get all your turns and your opponent can not safe you or run out like in straight pool and never give you one shot.I always hear " 9 ball is to lucky and easy " it is funny those who say that never win a tournament , surely they should be dominating them.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

So, why would you believe pool to be more difficult than other sports if you can teach everyone all sports in only minutes ??

If pool was more difficult, one could logically argue, they are better athletes or surely better competitors, why not put all that skill and mental toughness into something that pays the bills ? Something that could make you a multi millionaire, living in a mansion, driving a Rolls Royce and sleeping with super models... I know it's a tough choice between that and sleeping in your buddy's 72 VW van, and getting the occasion BJ from bar flies, but c'mon

Ummm, because as I said in my other response, pretty much any top player in ANY game has to "make it" in between the ages of roughly 16-22, otherwise either life gets in the way or physical skill begin to deteriorate in the mid 20's?

Most people at the top level of something in their early 20s will just keep banging away out of it through sheer optimism. That's why SVB is still playing pool. By the time these players hit their mid to late 20's, pragmatism starts to set in about the time their muscle memory for learning new sports starts to wane. By this time, it is too late to reach championship level at another game.

But, you a logical, well-reasoned guy, so I am sure you already came to this logical, self-evident conclusion yourself. :grin-square:

Short Bus Russ - C Player

 

[KRJ]

Wow.. A LOT of passive-aggressivenesss going on here...

I am curious as to what you base your assumptions on? I am a man of science, so before I make a Declarative statement such as yours, I require an abundance of proof that conforms to a pretty high standard.

:

No passive aggression going on, I really just can't believe how silly this argument is... Well, if you want the science, that look up the SI research that compared the toughest sports...

For me, I love baseball and pool. And I happened to be a HS baseball coach, and former semi pro baseball player, as well as an ACS advanced pool instructor... .so, yeah, my personal opinion is based on a lot of experience within both sports....... teaching and playing the game.

Hitting a 90MPH slider is prolly the most difficult thing in sports to do.... being an NFL QB has got be up there as well.... throwing a ball 50 yards, on a dime, in double coverage, with 300 pound guys just wanting to crush you like a grape.

I mean, if you wanna say pool is harder than bowling, and some other non athletic sports, then, hey, we'd at least have a good, honest argument... but not against baseball, certainly not against football, hockey, tennis, and other sports that require such a massive amount of skills, speed and strength.

If I play at DCC this year at 51, yeah, I'm donating, but I'm not going to be laughed out of the hotel if I play against SVB, I might even win a game, I can tell you that if I had to hit against Verlander, I'm done, I'm toast, and folks would be throwing their beer cans at me And I played the game at a decent level at one time

The difference is so huge, someone that has not played at a higher level of other sports would never understand... heck, ask Earl, he told me that tennis and golf are much harder than pool... he knows it, it does not bother him one bit........and he's still pretty good at them both, but can't make a living at either one.

 

[JoeW]

So, why would you believe pool to be more difficult than other sports if you can teach everyone all sports in only minutes ??

If pool was more difficult, one could logically argue, they are better athletes or surely better competitors, why not put all that skill and mental toughness into something that pays the bills ? Something that could make you a multi millionaire, living in a mansion, driving a Rolls Royce and sleeping with super models... I know it's a tough choice between that and sleeping in your buddy's 72 VW van, and getting the occasion BJ from bar flies, but c'mon

I think it is one of the more difficult sports because it requires a mastery of physical, emotional, and mental aspects of being human. The interplay of fine motor control and the subconscious mind to execute a shot and get position without allowing the consciousness to interfere is sublime and extremely difficult over a lengthy period of time.

I would have to agree that the quarterback in football has to be among the most difficult of players. He too has to have it all under control.

 

[KRJ]

Ummm, because as I said in my other response, pretty much any top player in ANY game has to "make it" in between the ages of roughly 16-22, otherwise either life gets in the way or physical skill begin to deteriorate in the mid 20's?

Most people at the top level of something in their early 20s will just keep banging away out of it through sheer optimism. That's why SVB is still playing pool. By the time these players hit their mid to late 20's, pragmatism starts to set in about the time their muscle memory for learning new sports starts to wane. By this time, it is too late to reach championship level at another game.

But, you a logical, well-reasoned guy, so I am sure you already came to this logical, self-evident conclusion yourself. :grin-square:

Short Bus Russ - C Player

Well, you finally figured it out... it does start to wane for professional athletes, pool players actually get better as they age... hell, Earl is still competing with the best at 52 years old....

I'll teach Brian Urlacher how to play pool during his retirement years, and you teach Can Wang to play LB in the NFL... we'll see who makes it first or dies trying

 

[StraightPoolIU]

I agree with the original post. Pool is a unique blend of strategy AND execution. If you have a good golf swing you will probably play good golf. If you have a good stroke that doesn't even begin to mean you have to play good pool.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[KRJ]

I think it is one of the more difficult sports because it requires a mastery of physical, emotional, and mental aspects of being human. The interplay of fine motor control and the subconscious mind to execute a shot and get position without allowing the consciousness to interfere is sublime and extremely difficult over a lengthy period of time.

Physical ?? surely you jest. Right, there is not mastery of emotion and mental aspects in other sports....

What do you think is going through the mind of a hitter with the bases loaded, in the 9 inning, while facing Mariano Rivera..... and he only has 3 tenths of a second to decide...

Sorry, you guys are barking up the wrong tree here... again, compare pool to bowling, or some other very limited athletic sports, and we can have a conversation....

 

[KRJ]

I agree with the original post. Pool is a unique blend of strategy AND execution. If you have a good golf swing you will probably play good golf. If you have a good stroke that doesn't even begin to mean you have to play good pool.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

And if you have a good baseball swing it MEANS absolutely nothing because of the hand eye skill and hand speed required to hit a ball, not to mention you have to a fraction of a second to decide what pitch is coming, and where it is going... and unlike pool, baseball is the ONLY sport when you are on OFFENSE you don't have the ball, the other team has it, and is trying to make you miss it..... golf and pool, the ball is teed up, not even moving.... how sweet is that

 

[JoeW]

Much of the argumentation here revolves around the meaning of the word "difficult."

In my thinking, as related to sports, "difficulty" includes the integration of mind and body. Obviously not everyone agrees.

 

[KRJ]

Much of the argumentation here revolves around the meaning of the word "difficult."

In my thinking, as related to sports, "difficulty" includes the integration of mind and body. Obviously not everyone agrees.

On this we can agree....mastering anything is difficult... and requires dedication and commitment... just some need more than others

 

[Donny Lutz]

Good answer

Definition: Natural talent is an innate or inborn gift for a specific activity, either allowing one to demonstrate some immediate skill without practice, or to gain skill rapidly with minimal practice.



By this definition, the key advantage of natural talent is that it allows the individual a steep learning curve, whereby he or she acquires skills readily with less practice or hard work than the average person. As well as the advantage of learning quickly, natural talent is also said to increase one’s maximum potential. This implies that each individual has a ceiling that caps the highest level of performance they can attain, no matter how hard or long they train. For gifted performers, this ceiling is said to be higher

Great answer.

I was a "natural" in the sense that once I saw someone make a bridge and pocket a ball, it was quite easy for me to imitate them.
But becoming a champion, even at the amateur level, required lots of work and effort.

 

[JoeW]

To be emotionally involved in the outcome of a baseball swing is not the same thing as to use the subconscious ability to execute the shot and get position.

The physical component refers to the use and control of fine motor coordination.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Size matters.

Kids can learn to play at a high level in pool faster than any other sport bar none



1

I think that's mostly because pool doesn't require strength and size.

 

[Johnnyt]

but i played in a league for 7 years with a guy that was drafted by the dogers. he got hurt and never made it big time, but he's a pretty sharp pool player. he says that putting a bat on a 100 mile an hr fast ball is harder that any shot on the table.

Putting the bat on it isn't super hard, but making the ball go where you wanted is. Johnnyt

 

[JoeW]

Putting the bat on it isn't super hard, but making the ball go where you wanted is. Johnnyt

Yeah, one of the first things I learned in the old men's softball league is that I could pretty much put the ball where I wanted it. Seems one of the weaker players is usually in right field so that is where I hit to. Playing pool helped me to learn to do that. Just have to shift your feet

 

[Donny Lutz]

50 sports

Sorry folks. Pool is not even in the top 50 sports of difficulty. Number one belongs to baseball according to an extensive research by Sports Illustrated. The hand eye coordination and the speed to actually hit a 90 MPH slider is ungodly.

The human eye can't even track the baseball for the last 5 feet, and thus why the pitchers with balls the break the latest, pitch the best.

I believe pool was rated just about fishing in terms of difficulty, but way below cheerleading.

Now, that is not a knock on pool, it takes a lot of time to be great at anything. But how many 19 year old pitchers can compete against the BEST hitters in the game. There is a reason why they throw $100 million dollar contract around the MLB like they are nickels, cause there are only some many folks that can play at that level.

Same with football. There are only some many folks that can play QB in the NFL, even most of the best college QB's fail in the NFL.

Heck, even Earl Strickland knows it takes more skill to play gold and tennis than pool, and he happens to be pretty good at both of them...

I assume you've achieved some success in at least 50 sports to make this statement.

The reason that there's a limited number of NFL quarterbacks is simply because of the number of NFL teams. If the NFL expanded to sixty teams, do you believe most of them would be unable to find a quarterback?

Golf is very difficult, but strategically it's no where near the challenge of pool. The options on a pool table are almost infinite, and there's no defense in golf.

If you look at the earning potential, it's far easier to make a living playing golf than pool. There are thousands doing so.

If you're talking about simply accomplishments, I'd say bowling is much easier to master than pool...and I do speak from experience here.