Pool Lessons

JoeW. I know several instructors including myself who will spend time with a student before agreeing to put them in the class. During that time, we will answer any questions a potential student has. If a potential student asks for references, I will provide them. If they want to know how many students I have worked with, I can provide that information. But I also interview the student. I have turned down students who didn't impress me with an open mind and a willingness to learn. Learning is a two way street. The instructor can only provide information. If the student won't apply it, they will be wasting their money and time. (I've only had to turn down 3 out of the hundreds I have worked with.)

As for the instructors, only someone who is Advanced or Master level can recommend someone for the program. And they have to first be a student to show their instructor they can learn, and then assist in teaching under the supervision of an Advanced or Master instructor. And if they don't meet the standards, they aren't recommended.

If it is that difficult for you to make the decision whether or not to take lessons, maybe you aren't ready. Do your research, make some calls, talk to instructors. When you find the one you like, do more research. You need to have confidence in your instructor. If you don't, both the student and the instructor are set up for failure. But if, like most students, you go into it with an open mind, and a willingness to apply what you learn, it's a win-win situation.
Steve
 
In our mechanics class, we video tape each student executing a sequence of shots before we begin teaching. After we have taught the student the details of good mechanics, they grade their own mechanics that were recorded earlier. There are 10 things that are graded from 1 to 10 for a perfect score of 100. There grades are recorded on the students report card. Near the end of the class, after developing their mechanics, the students are taped, and then grade themselves again. These scores are also recorded on the report card for comparison. Typical scores for the second evaluation are in the 90?s. The average improvement among six students in a typical class was an impressive 221%.

JoeW, Is this what you?re looking for to evaluate an instructor? Would you take our mechanics class based on this number?
 
I've taken Randy G.'s three day advanced class and I was impressed not only with the pool knowledge but also with the level they talked about sports psychology and the learning process. If you are interested in taking lessons I would definitely recommend Randy G. and Scott Lee. They are lifelong students as well as instructors.

I recently graduated with a PhD in polymer chemistry so I think I've had plenty of experience learning and evaluating teachers.

P.S. I plan to take the advanced class from Randy G. when it comes to town in a couple of months.
 
Mark Avlon said:
In our mechanics class, we video tape each student executing a sequence of shots before we begin teaching. After we have taught the student the details of good mechanics, they grade their own mechanics that were recorded earlier. There are 10 things that are graded from 1 to 10 for a perfect score of 100. There grades are recorded on the students report card. Near the end of the class, after developing their mechanics, the students are taped, and then grade themselves again. These scores are also recorded on the report card for comparison. Typical scores for the second evaluation are in the 90?s. The average improvement among six students in a typical class was an impressive 221%.

JoeW, Is this what you?re looking for to evaluate an instructor? Would you take our mechanics class based on this number?
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Yeah, that is exactly the kind of thing I was referring to. Thanks and I think that more people should be able to say the same sorts of things. Would I take such a class? Yes, if I were looking for a class.

The discussion of models does not necessarily mean that a particular model should be adopted, only that such a model might be useful for the ideas it contains.
 
Neil said:
Joe, just a few observations.

The 3 day course for certification- They are teaching pool, not rocket science. And there are different levels of certification. Not so easy to attain as you might think.

I did not mean to imply that BCA certification is easy to get. My apologies if that was implied.

You tube anology- why should they be on you tube?? With all your degrees, would you post yourself analyzing someone for advertising your credentials? I don't think so.

How many in your esteemed profession have their own websites? Complete with names and numbers of past clients?

Licensed professionals in general do not advertise their services. They accept new patients or clients. A fine line, I know but it is generally considered unethical to suggest that one's services are in some way better or special. Those who are board certified may list their specialties.
I do agree that the BCA DOES need to 'update' their site for instructors.

Did your profession ever list who was better than whom? Or who was cheaper ? Then why should the instructors?

There are various specialties and board certifications beyond a license to practice.
I see where you are coming from, but I think you might be taking it a little to far.

I probably agree with you more than perhaps you realize.
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My main argument is that certified instructors could improve their operating methods. It would appear they are somewhere between a semi-profession and a real profession with regard to the overall field. I do not mean this as a detraction and suggest that perhaps some form of additional oversight may help with improving the status of certified instructors. Like any profession there are many good professionals and some who detract from the profession. My comments are more along the lines of uggesting things that might assist with improving the professions image.
 
JoeW...Please recognize and understand one important factor here. MOST BCA Certified instructors, that are not Master instructors do not teach full time, and have other primary jobs. I am one example who does. I am currently working on my master certification, but I have been teaching full time, all across the U.S., for more than 15 yrs; and before that taught a full blown college course (with end-of-semester evaluations, which were submitted to the school by the students...), for 8 yrs. My evaluations were systematically in the 90%-95% range, for course satisfaction, and content. I think that says a lot about qualifications as a teacher of any subject. I developed and implemented this program at Montana State University. I think you're comparing apples to oranges when you talk about the level of competence and application of knowledge for pool instructors versus college professors with advanced college degrees, who are practicing medicine, law, or psychiatry. It's just not the same...imo. However, my knowledge and personal passion for the college course I developed was just as strong as any other teacher on my campus, regardless of the subject.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
JoeW,

Metrics are nice and can be helpful when making choices, but metrics won?t necessarily guarantee that a student will succeed in a class. Positive student referrals won?t guarantee that a student will succeed in a class. I don?t know any thing that could be used to guarantee success.

There are many factors that can affect their success. Surely, you have had students that did well in your classes and those that didn?t. It might have been you, the material, the environment, or something else. Maybe the student wasn?t prepared for the class. Maybe they were daydreaming about their new girlfriend. You name it, it can interfere with learning.

Personally, I?m comfortable with just talking to the instructor or prior students to get a feel for a class I'm considering. I've had many more successes than failures using this method.
 
To get personal for just one post, and then I will leave this topic alone. Inquiring minds have now learned that Scott and Mark are both well qualified pool instructors. :D

But it took a lot to get to that information. I think there should be some way to have this type of information available. There is no dishonor in being an instructor, assistant professor, etc.

I do not have a problem with stating who I am and what my background is without "advertising." In my opinion this can be useful information when requested. In answer to a previous post, I was a full professor and recognized as a distinguished professor of research at YSU. However, I have always had a high drop rate in my classes and I am perceived as demanding. Those who stay in my classes like them, those who drop do not. Students have long known that only serious students should take my classes.

In the professional arena, my colleagues were well aware of my specialties and my 20 page curriculum vita contains a list of all agencies I have worked with over the years with contact information. My Curriculm Vita (CV) lists all classes taught, court testimony, publications, grants, and awards received. This is more information than anyone would want to know. This too is not a bad model to be shared with inquiring minds who are thinking about working with me or my professional corporation. When I had a professional web site my CV, which also contained a photograph, could be downloaded by anyone who cared to read it. So indeed I practiced what I preach. Because I am now retired from practice I no longer have a professional web site or I would list the URL here. My university web site will not be up again until December when I teach my last set of classes.

BTW the construction and maintenance of a CV is a requiremnt in a university setting and highly useful for professional purposes.

I hope that this discussion has in some way contributed to the discussion of pool instruction.
 
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Scott Lee said:
However, my knowledge and personal passion for the college course I developed was just as strong as any other teacher on my campus, regardless of the subject.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott,
I'm going to have to strongly disagree with your statement above......your interest in the subject had to be MUCH GREATER than the majority of professor's on any campus that I've frequented (and I've spent a bit of time in school).

I will take this opportunity to express another strongly held belief; and that is that teachers who are passionately interested in their subject are MUCH more effective than those who are not. One of the reason's pool is not more popular is that such instructors are not widely available. Put a guy like Scott Lee, or Mark Wilson, or Jerry Briesath in every school and pool would just skyrocket in popularity.
 
Oh, man, this thread is out of hand here.

And no offense, but from what I've read so far, it sounds like I would have been one of the students to have bailed on JoeW's classes. You may ask why, so I'll tell you; Your abrasive presentation of ideas, to this point, blows. Not to mention your feeble attempt to clearly big time other educators. Sorry, but I likely would have tuned you out. I'm sure you really are a nice person who I would like to have a conversation with, but you're not at all coming across that way at all here on the AZ.

I'm am attending Scott Lee's school this weekend, and I'll let everyone know how it goes.

Personally, I don't care about his extensive credentials, nor the accomplishments of his students.

What I do care about is what I come away with; what I take away from the school with me for the rest of my pool playing days that will ultimately enhance my overall enjoyment of the game.
 
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JoeW said:
To get personal for just one post, and then I will leave this topic alone. Inquiring minds have now learned that Scott and Mark are both well qualified pool instructors. :D

But it took a lot to get to that information. I think there should be some way to have this type of information available. There is no dishonor in being an instructor, assistant professor, etc.

I do not have a problem with stating who I am and what my background is without "advertising." In my opinion this can be useful information when requested. In answer to a previous post, I was a full professor and recognized as a distinguished professor of research at YSU. However, I have always had a high drop rate in my classes and I am perceived as demanding. Those who stay in my classes like them, those who drop do not. Students have long known that only serious students should take my classes.

In the professional arena, my colleagues were well aware of my specialties and my 20 page curriculum vita contains a list of all agencies I have worked with over the years with contact information. My Curriculm Vita (CV) lists all classes taught, court testimony, publications, grants, and awards received. This is more information than anyone would want to know. This too is not a bad model to be shared with inquiring minds who are thinking about working with me or my professional corporation. When I had a professional web site my CV, which also contained a photograph, could be downloaded by anyone who cared to read it. So indeed I practiced what I preach. Because I am now retired from practice I no longer have a professional web site or I would list the URL here. My university web site will not be up again until December when I teach my last set of classes.

BTW the construction and maintenance of a CV is a requiremnt in a university setting and highly useful for professional purposes.

I hope that this discussion has in some way contributed to the discussion of pool instruction.
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When I was going to college, one of the professors said that the worst method of teaching was lecturing. Given that, college professors and the great majority of educators lecture a great deal and some do it exclusively. Personalized System of Instruction (PSI) was considered to be one of the best methods of teaching. How many educators utilize this method?

My daughter is a fully credentialed teacher and she says that the "system" still advocates all methods of teaching besides PSI. I went to college well over 20 years ago. This is not exactly a glowing report card for educators whether they're at the primary level of education or the collegiate level.
 
Gregg said:
What I do care about is what I come away with; what I take away from the school with me for the rest of my pool playing days that will ultimately enhance my overall enjoyment of the game.
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Gregg...You got dat right! :D That's the WHOLE idea...to give you the tools to teach yourself to be as good a player as you want to be (or your natural talent and committment allows), as well as the diagnostics to analyze and "fix" things quickly, whenever your stroke seem to not be 'working' correctly. We're gonna have some fun this weekend! See you at 8! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Rick,
There is nothing to say that you teacher was correct. I would suggest that teaching methods will be different for different material. It is certainly difficult to get away from some level of lecture to lay a foundation for you materail. I sometimes teach physical therapy material. I generally begin with some lecture time to lay a foundation and understanding of the material I am presenting. I generally then will demonstrate it, having the students assist, and be as involved as possible.

I personally do like to hear about an instructor. I feel I came to the desire to take lessons from one of the instructors on here because of the presentation on their website, and because of the endorsement of many of their students on this and one other pool forum. I could just take lessons around here for cheaper, but I think I will get more for my money this way.
 
mantis99 said:
Rick,
There is nothing to say that you teacher was correct. I would suggest that teaching methods will be different for different material. It is certainly difficult to get away from some level of lecture to lay a foundation for you materail. I sometimes teach physical therapy material. I generally begin with some lecture time to lay a foundation and understanding of the material I am presenting. I generally then will demonstrate it, having the students assist, and be as involved as possible.

I personally do like to hear about an instructor. I feel I came to the desire to take lessons from one of the instructors on here because of the presentation on their website, and because of the endorsement of many of their students on this and one other pool forum. I could just take lessons around here for cheaper, but I think I will get more for my money this way.
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I can't dig up the data he used but I'm pretty sure he wasn't making it up. By the way, I understand that a certain amount of lecture is necessary. The point I was trying to make is that those in the business of higher learning don't always use the best tools for learning because they can be lazy, disinterested, or any number of other reasons not to do their best. I just don't accept the notion that just because someone is a college professor he's above reproach when it comes to teaching. Teaching is more of a natural gift than a learned activity. I've seen people with no degree teach better than someone with a wall full of degrees.

I think getting good instruction on how to play pool is money well spent. Good luck on getting some good lessons!
 
This "What is a teacher" essay was submitted to a contest 15 years ago. Some may find it of interest.

In the early years of school we are asked to participate in "Show and Tell." Some people dread the experience, some people like it so much they spend the rest of their life looking for things they can share with others. When the Show and Tell bug has bitten the young person the student may become a teacher. There are many good teachers we meet in life; a few of us take it up as a profession.

Why are some people like this? The best of teachers simply enjoy the service: Knowing that one has contributed to the growth of others is an end in itself. I suspect that excellent teachers are also driven by the pursuit of knowledge as an end in itself. They just want to know why things happen and are often willing to go to extraordinary lengths to get the best information available.

Teachers are enthusiastic about their topic and delight in sharing what they have learned. Sometimes it seems that they can go on forever about their specialty while denying the idea that they are an "expert." Good teachers will tell you they are students, not teachers.

These two qualities are the primary and distinguishing characteristics of a teacher: Love of knowledge and a love of contributing to the development of others. At times the primary characteristics become contaminated by other drives and needs such as the need for status, authority, exhibitionism and any of many human needs that make us less than who we want to be. Excellent teachers learn to control these needs and to keep them out of the teaching arena as much as possible. Some teachers are better at this than others and they are better or worse teachers because of their abilities to control the extraneous (non-teaching) factors.

Contrary to many opinions, I do not believe that a teacher is necessarily the most skilled at their subject matter. For example, one of the things I enjoy in life is playing pocket billiards and I have noticed that while world champions write books about their sport, they often cannot pass on the "how" and the "why" of some particular esoteric point. They know how they train and they think this is the best way for everyone to train. The best billiards teacher I have found is not a world champion. His "hobby" is a billiards school in Chicago and champions go to him to refine their skills. This teacher is an extremely astute observer, he is articulate, highly knowledgeable and of course he is an excellent player but not a champion. You see he spends too much time doing what he loves most, helping others become champions.

One of the jokes we play on children is to tell them they must hold their mouth in the right way to drive a nail with a hammer. Champions often do this, albeit unintentionally. They know what works for them but they often cannot explain it. In addition, champions are usually involved in their own self advancement (as they should be) and do not often have the enthusiasm for helping others learn. That is a different drive.

As a university professor I am always on the look out for people who will make excellent teachers. I pull some students aside and ask them if they have thought about a teaching career. The people I talk with are excellent students of the material (they love it). They are also enthusiastic about the material and like to share (not show off) what they have learned.

One of the signs of a good teacher, and I have had students go on to become excellent teachers, is their initial response, "Oh, I am not good enough to teach. Who would want to listen to me?" There is a true humbleness and often these future teachers must be encouraged and given experiences that show that others want to listen to them. It may sound funny but most good teachers are amazed at first that others want to listen to what they have to say. The little (in their perception) knowledge they have acquired goes a long way because of the way they present it. The right attitudes and being one step beyond the students are the ingredients for a good teacher.

I like to think that I am a good teacher and I tell my students that a teacher is nothing more than the senior student in the room. Our crowning achievement is when our students go beyond us and push the edge of knowledge and ability one step further.

If you think about it, none of us like the authority figure with bombastic statements, a show off attitude, and the "I am better than you," or "Why did you ask such a stupid question?" approach. What we like, and when we learn, is when the teacher appreciates us, finds ways to encourage us, and shows enthusiasm for the material that catches a fire in us that drives us to learn more, be more, and develop better skills.

Good teachers sometimes work in gas stations; law offices; hospitals; sports arenas; and some are in schools of various types. It is not where a teacher is located; it is their approach to the topic. They find out how the rest of us can become an expert and they love to see us go beyond their knowledge. When you find a good one you can go far. Good teachers take a candle flame of interest and build it into a bonfire of desire. With a little luck and motivated perseverance the student becomes a flaming star on the horizon that is the goal of a teacher.

Want to see how it's done? Perhaps you are a much better teacher than you think. Select a person who wants to know about something that you have learned and something that you are enthusiastic about. Remember that you need to be only a step or two ahead of your "student." Consider and write down the most important aspects of the topic to be taught.

Maybe you need notes, but probably not as it is something you know and your student does not know. None the less, you will need a plan for presenting the material in a manner that can be easily grasped. Above all, don't write it all down, just the notes that list the most important ideas that you "must" cover if the student is to know as much as you know.

Go to your student and show them what you have found. Your outline will fall apart because your first concern is to listen to their questions and present answers that are meaningful to the student. Your only concern is their concerns, what will help them learn more. While you are doing this you try to keep coming back to your outline, as these are the things that you know the student needs to know.

When your focus is on the student, their questions, their ideas, and their problems you are teaching. No matter what your student says, find something right in their statement or question. Use their comments as the beginning of what will interest and motivate the student to learn more. Use the student's interest to take them further and as a vehicle that helps you return to your outline and the things they need to know.
One of the things that you will find is that your student will lead you to the areas that should have been included in your talk. The student's questions will drive you to learn how to answer student questions the next time you teach.

After the teaching is done you will want to revise your outline and you will want to find better answers for those questions, comments, and problems. In this way the teacher is the student and the student helps us to become better teachers Try it, if you like it, you too may be a teacher in the making. A good teacher loves knowledge and loves learning how to communicate that knowledge in ways that motivate others to learn.

All of us are good at some things and not good at others and so teaching can be one of those skills that you may or may not have. You will never know until you try. It may or may not be a skill you will want to improve. For those of us who like to teach, the rewards cannot be compared to anything else and it becomes a profession, a way of life, and indeed part of the definition of what life is about -- the pursuit of truth in service to others.

Ya all have a nice life.
 
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pool

mr.jesdeh2o said:
Over the last three months, I have said that I have been getting lessons from Little Joe. In the last three months, my knowledge and skill in pool has increased tremendously. His systems for kicking and cueball knowledge are truly one of a kind. A lot of these BCA certified instructors teach fundamentals. He teaches knowledge within the game of pool. I have never been to a BCA certified instructor and I never will. They do not teach let alone know what he knows. What I mean by cueball knowledge is that he can teach someone how to move the cueball around the table with exactness. I would have to say that being exact is the most important thing in the game of pool. Being exact is what seperates the good from the best. As you know being exact comes with time practice and experience. Little Joe can provide the tools needed to help someone become exact. I definitely will say that this is by far a better time and money investment then going to a BCA certified instructor who just teaches fundamentals. Knowledge and exactness wins games.
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did you leave out aiming ?????
 
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