Pool Made Simple … HOW TO AIM USING SIDESPIN … with GoPro POV

The "adjustments" are not small for a short, fast shot with lots of sidespin.
I may have not explained it well. What I mean is most players, especially the intuitive style, will come down with the tip already where you would want it to be on the CB (with spin already accounted for). In other words if I'm decide to hit high right while analyzing the table, I will come down differently than if I had planned on hitting low left. So there still may be an adjustment to account for deflection/spin/whatever but it's smaller than if you came down center CB. I don't really think that it needs to be in the resource page though.
 
I would would like people's inputs and opinions concerning something I recently added to the SAWS resource page:

What should you look at during the SAWS aiming and shooting process?

You should generally follow the eye pattern “best practices” used by most top players. When using sidespin, players who aim intuitively typically look at where they want the CB to go (with focus at the OB) during the final stroke, realizing that the cue and stroke are pointing slightly offline to send the CB in the desired direction.

When using SAWS, you first look at where you want the CB to go with a careful center-ball aim. Then you look at the tip contact point on the CB as you do the BHE/FHE pivots to ensure you are accurate with the pivots and the desired tip contact point. Then it is recommended you shift your focus back toward the OB but along the new direction of the cue. This will help ensure a straight stroke. You look where the cue is pointing, realizing that the CB will deflect to the desired target identified during the careful center-ball aim.



First, do you think the 1st paragraph is correct. When using sidespin, do most top players look where they want the CB to go and not along the direction the cue is pointing?

Also, do you think it is a good idea to follow the advice in the 2nd paragraph, to look at where the cue is pointing to help ensure a straight stroke in the desired direction?
This is what I do when I use SAWS. Although, in the past when I tried to aim sidespin shots intuitively (which was less effective for me), I think I used to look where I wanted the CB to go.

Does anybody else have any input or opinions on these questions? Most importantly,

Where do you think most top players are looking during a stroke with sidespin? Are they looking in the direction they want the CB to go (after CB deflection), or are they looking in the direction the cue is pointing (realizing this will send the CB where they want)?

Also, which line (desired CB direction or cue direction) do you think you are focusing on when you shoot?
 
... Where do you think most top players are looking during a stroke with sidespin? ...
I think they are looking at the object ball during the stroke, but it would be interesting to carefully record players (of all levels) to see what they actually do during the shot alignment and the final stroke. I wonder if someone has done this already. I'm talking about a study, not taking snippets of match videos.

So, I'm guessing their attention is mostly along the direction of the cue ball on most normal sidespin shots.
 
I think they are looking at the object ball during the stroke, but it would be interesting to carefully record players (of all levels) to see what they actually do during the shot alignment and the final stroke. I wonder if someone has done this already. I'm talking about a study, not taking snippets of match videos.

So, I'm guessing their attention is mostly along the direction of the cue ball on most normal sidespin shots.

Thanks, Bob. That's what I think also. And I agree that a "study" would be interesting.

It would also be interesting if more AZB members (especially the good players) let us know where they focus (desired CB direction or cue direction) during sidespin shots. If they are not sure, because it comes so intuitively, maybe they can pay attention to it the next time they get to table and report back.
 
What is your tangible proof that you play better now with SAWS than before, when you stated you were getting into your stance like most pros, intuitively on the shot line? You’re talking to players here now, not YouTube bangers.
 
I put my eyes along the stick direction as of about 10 months ago. I feel it makes the stick go straighter. I still stink, though;) See this post for a visual:

 
What is your tangible proof that you play better now with SAWS than before

My “tangible proof” is I miss sidespin shots much less often. I don’t have precise stats for you, but the better results were certainly immediately “noticeable.” This is the case with my students too. SAWS also gives me more confidence since I don’t need to “judge” or “feel” or “guess” anymore. Although, I do need to deliver strokes with intended speeds for the SAWS choices to be correct.
 
Understood. Regardless, where do you think most top players are looking during a sidespin shot stroke? Are they looking in the direction they want the CB to go (after CB deflection), or are they looking in the direction the cue is pointing?

I think they start out looking at the CB and once down make any necessary tip contact micro-adjustments, then look at the OB while calibrating their stroke speed.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Does anybody else have any input or opinions on these questions? Most importantly,

Where do you think most top players are looking during a stroke with sidespin? Are they looking in the direction they want the CB to go (after CB deflection), or are they looking in the direction the cue is pointing (realizing this will send the CB where they want)?

Also, which line (desired CB direction or cue direction) do you think you are focusing on when you shoot?
i dont think the pros think about it at all !!!!!
 
My “tangible proof” is I miss sidespin shots much less often. I don’t have precise stats for you, but the better results were certainly immediately “noticeable.” This is the case with my students too. SAWS also gives me more confidence since I don’t need to “judge” or “feel” or “guess” anymore. Although, I do need to deliver strokes with intended speeds for the SAWS choices to be correct.
I doubt you’re any better. Were the years you killed the 9 and 10 ball ghost pre SAWS? I think they were about 2015. I’d have to go check. Can you beat those scores today?

Anytime I try something new, I feel like it’s finally cured me. 6 months later, my game is still the same. Repeat every year when trying something else.
 
i dont think the pros think about it at all !!!!!

Agreed, but that is not the question. The question is: On which line is their focus (CB line or cue line) when they pull the trigger?
 
It would also be interesting if more AZB members (especially the good players) let us know where they focus (desired CB direction or cue direction) during sidespin shots. If they are not sure, because it comes so intuitively, maybe they can pay attention to it the next time they get to table and report back.
From a 600ish Fargo level player:

I aim with a combination of ghostball visualization and OB/CB overlap intuition while standing, then drop straight into the shot. I don't focus on any singular point on the OB at any time, since it doesn't matter for me, I just focus on the OB as a whole, with the peripheral image of the CB (and the cue) contained in the same visual image. OB/CB overlap being the key thing while down, I know the shot is on if this overlap "feels correct". This method applies for me no matter what kind of spin I use. My stroke straightness comes from always stepping into the shot the same way and aligning myself properly with my body. Chin and chest cue contact helps a lot with this. In other words, the backhand location in space that your cue must be coming from towards the intended point on the CB is always exactly the same relative to the shot image, no matter what type of shot you are facing, and I find this correct backhand location with a bodily alignment method, which doesn't require looking, or even knowing, the exact point you will hit on the OB, as long as the visually perceived overlap is correct.

So, to answer your question directly, if someone measured the exact point my eyes are focused at, it'd probably be somewhere near the OB, but this point would be insignificant and not alter my success rate for pots. In terms of potting accuracy, the largest benefit for me at looking anywhere near the OB and not the CB is the clearer observation of staying still. Looking at the CB, if you slightly move your body by accident, you might not notice it, but by looking at the OB and being hyperfocused on the OB/CB overlap, the slightest of movements will be noticed. OB last is also obviously good for many other purposes too that aren't related to shooting staight, most obvious and large benefit being that you see the whole picture of what you are doing which helps with speed control and more.
 
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Were the years you killed the 9 and 10 ball ghost pre SAWS? I think they were about 2015. I’d have to go check. Can you beat those scores today?

That's close to the timeframe when I was developing the SAWS system. The final version was completed and published (in DVD form) in 2018. I don't think I can give all the credit to SAWS for my 9-ball and 10-ball ghost videos. I was working hard on my game back then, and I attempted those ghost runs a lot before getting videos with scores worth posting.
 
i did not spend alot of time with it but my first impression was that SAWS was too complicated to work out a chart for my shaft

It is not difficult, and it doesn't take very long. BTW, the results also depend on your bridge length and style of BHE/FHE pivots. Anything works as long as you are consistent.
 
From a 600ish Fargo level player:

I aim with a combination of ghostball visualization and OB/CB overlap intuition while standing, then drop straight into the shot. I don't focus on any singular point on the OB at any time, since it doesn't matter for me, I just focus on the OB as a whole, with the peripheral image of the CB (and the cue) contained in the same visual image. OB/CB overlap being the key thing while down, I know the shot is on if this overlap "feels correct". This method applies for me no matter what kind of spin I use. My stroke straightness comes from always stepping into the shot the same way and aligning myself properly with my body. Chin and chest cue contact helps a lot with this. In other words, the direction/location that your cue must be is always exactly the same relative to the shot image, no matter what type of shot you are facing, and I find this correct direction with a bodily alignment method, which doesn't require looking, or even knowing, the exact point you will hit on the OB, as long as the visually perceived overlap is correct.

So, to answer your question directly, if someone measured the exact point my eyes are focused at, it'd probably be somewhere near the OB, but this point would be insignificant and not alter my success rate for pots. In terms of potting accuracy, the largest benefit for me at looking anywhere near the OB and not the CB is the clearer observation of staying still. Looking at the CB, if you slightly move your body by accident, you might not notice it, but by looking at the OB and being hyperfocused on the OB/CB overlap, the slightest of movements will be noticed. OB last is also obviously good for many other purposes too that aren't related to shooting staight, most obvious and large benefit being that you see the whole picture of what you are doing which helps with speed control and more.

Thank you for sharing your thorough analysis. But the question isn't CB focus vs. OB focus during the stroke. The question is: When you are focusing close the OB during your final alignment check (or when you pull the trigger), is your focus or attention more on where you want the CB to hit at the OB (i.e., the ghost ball or ball overlap), or is it in the direction the cue is pointing, realizing that CB deflection will send the CB in the direction necessary to achieve the desired OB contact). There is a difference, due to CB deflection.
 
Thank you for sharing your thorough analysis. But the question isn't CB focus vs. OB focus during the stroke. The question is: When you are focusing close the OB during your final alignment check (or when you pull the trigger), is your focus or attention more on where you want the CB to hit at the OB (i.e., the ghost ball or ball overlap), or is it in the direction the cue is pointing, realizing that CB deflection will send the CB in the direction necessary to achieve the desired OB contact). There is a difference, due to CB deflection.
My bad, didn't explain thoroughly enough since didn't want the post to be too long. I'll try to clarify the relevant part, and explain more about how I apply sidespin:

I do my necessary aim adjustments (for throw, deflection, swerve, etc.) during my aiming process while standing. Once I'm down on the shot, my visual focus is on the OB/CB overlap being correct and staying the same (no accidental movement). In this sense it doesn't matter for me in terms of sighting or eye patterns if I use side or not while down on the shot, since I have done all aim compensation by aiming into a different overlap while standing.

I'd explain it theoretically like this: For any given shot with sidespin or not, there exists a certain CB/OB overlap which sends the OB at the desired place with the desired power, given that I hit the CB at a desired spot and elevation. (to be precise, the sideways angle obviously matters too, but this angle is always the same relative to the amount of sidespin used due to how I do my bodily alignment). I find this "correct overlap" while standing, go down and keep the overlap, hit the CB at the correct point, and the ball goes in.

Reason I went on about CB/OB last was simply to explain why I even look at the OB at all and why probably everyone should, even if the pinpoint exact focus point on the OB didn't matter.

Also, I know most people don't align/sight their shots like this and it's not best practice, just explaining my process nonetheless. Works well for me.
 
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@dr_dave
is this a good analogy for your question
you are a bowler who plans to hook the ball
do you look at the arrow on the lane your ball will pass over ?
or do look at the 1-3 pocket to make a strike?
 
My bad, didn't explain thoroughly enough since didn't want the post to be too long. I'll try to clarify the relevant part, and explain more about how I apply sidespin:

I do my necessary aim adjustments (for throw, deflection, swerve, etc.) during my aiming process while standing. Once I'm down on the shot, my visual focus is on the OB/CB overlap being correct and staying the same (no accidental movement). In this sense it doesn't matter for me in terms of sighting or eye patterns if I use side or not while down on the shot, since I have done all aim compensation by aiming into a different overlap while standing.

I'd explain it theoretically like this: For any given shot with sidespin or not, there exists a certain CB/OB overlap which sends the OB at the desired place with the desired power, given that I hit the CB at a desired spot and elevation. (to be precise, the sideways angle obviously matters too, but this angle is always the same relative to the amount of sidespin used due to how I do my bodily alignment). I find this "correct overlap" while standing, go down and keep the overlap, hit the CB at the correct point, and the ball goes in.

Reason I went on about CB/OB last was simply to explain why I even look at the OB at all and why probably everyone should, even if the pinpoint exact focus point on the OB didn't matter.

Also, I know most people don't align/sight their shots like this and it's not best practice, just explaining my process nonetheless. Works well for me.
Thanks again. It sounds like when you are using sidespin, you still focus on where you want the CB to go and not along the cue direction required to compensate for CB deflection. Would you say that is a fair statement?
 
@dr_dave
is this a good analogy for your question
you are a bowler who plans to hook the ball
do you look at the arrow on the lane your ball will pass over ?
or do look at the 1-3 pocket to make a strike?
I’m a bowler, and I do focus on the arrow (in the direction “the cue is pointing”). But analogies like this aren’t always appropriate. This one is close to falling in that category, IMO.
 
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