Pool Manners II

Let it go. You're good.

Thanks for the posts so far. One thing I didn't mention is that this match was an APA 9 ball match in the National Team Tournament in Las Vegas, so it's not like no one was watching. I was playing and pretty focused on the match but I'm reasonably certain that all the players from both teams were watching pretty intensely. I have been feeling guilty ever since, it was like she was sure I blatently cheated, that just doesn't set to well with me.

Bear with me, here: in the absolutely WORST possible scenario, where you saw she was going for the wrong ball, where you knew deep in your heart that she intended to hit the wrong ball first: it's still not wrong to keep quiet. Look at your alternatives.

If you tell her it's the wrong ball and she was merely checking future angles or positions, now you've sharked her- making her feel self conscious and breaking her train of thought. If you tell her and she gratefully takes the advice, going for the correct ball, she will either run out or she won't. If she runs out, you both feel crappy- you because you lost, and she because she didn't really earn the win. If she doesn't get out, you sharked her anyway, making her feel too self conscious and guilty to complete the run. (And it sounds like she's more than ready to blame you for anything, anyway.)

The best is to follow Tom's logic above- you can't tell her it's the wrong ball, the wrong english, the wrong anything. Let her play her game, you play yours.

Our hardest lessons come from our biggest mistakes, and if she could take responsibility for her shooting the wrong shot (instead of putting that blame on you), she will have definitely learned to pay attention.

And don't let other people tell you what good sportsmanship is when they can't be good sports themselves. A good sport in her place would have shaken your hand, congratulated you, and went back to the room to think about how to better focus under pressure.

Sheesh- her behavior is classic blaming the other guy for her loss, plus trying to sour your win because she feels stupid. Don't give her that power over you, your game, your emotions- when it's entirely her problem in the first place. Let it go. You're good.

P.S. I don't know anything about the APA, so if there was a rule or something that would have made a difference here, I wouldn't know it. HOWEVER, I do see it's a team event, in which case if you're helping your opponent, you're also selling out your team by doing so.
 
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She should have been mad at herself, not you. You on the other hand could say, "Don't worry about it, happens to the best of us..." or something like that. That's it. Any blame she has on you only reflects on her expectation that she be treated like a princess. :-)
 
Thanks for the posts so far. One thing I didn't mention is that this match was an APA 9 ball match in the National Team Tournament in Las Vegas, so it's not like no one was watching. I was playing and pretty focused on the match but I'm reasonably certain that all the players from both teams were watching pretty intensely. I have been feeling guilty ever since, it was like she was sure I blatently cheated, that just doesn't set to well with me.


I will call out the ball (I never say "wrong ball" but "3-ball!" or "5-ball!") if it's painfully obvious that my opponent is shooting at the wrong ball: cue ball in the center of the table, clear shot at the 3 ball at the foot rail but they're shooting at the 4 ball near the head rail.

Otherwise I keep my yap shut and if my opponent says anything afterward, I shrug and say "I figured you were trying something fancy."

If I shoot the wrong ball in an APA match, I look at my teammates and jokingly say, "Where the f*** are you guys!?" If I line up on the wrong ball and my opponent says something, I always thank him/her, but I don't get pissed if they don't say anything either.

I think you have to let it go and accept that some people will blame everyone/thing but themselves for messing up.
 
Informing someone is the decent thing to do. Yes, it's 100% the shooter's fault. But we've all had that senior moment.

If you honestly didn't see it, of course there's nothing wrong with that.
But have you ever seen an exchange like this?

(you shoot the wrong ball, and .1 seconds later the opponent is out of his chair)
"Ball in hand."
"What??"
"You're on the 5. You just shot the 6."
"Oh for christ's sake. You coulda said something."
"I would have man, I thought you were shooting the 5, sorry bro"

Sometimes you just KNOW they're BSing, but they don't want to by just bluntly say "I let you shoot the wrong ball because it's your responsibility." ...they try to back out of it by claiming they didn't see it. She probably thought you were pulling one of those routines.


Really, it's irrational to get mad at someone over it. But amongst friends we have a lot of little "social rules". Spot early 9's, you go again if you never got to shoot, and warn people if they're about to foul. You can break these rules and technically be in the right, but it affects how your buddies see you.
 
I might be mistaken but can't your team tell you which ball you are on in APA. If that is the case she should ***** at her own team
 
Bear with me, here: in the absolutely WORST possible scenario, where you saw she was going for the wrong ball, where you knew deep in your heart that she intended to hit the wrong ball first: it's still not wrong to keep quiet. Look at your alternatives.

If you tell her it's the wrong ball and she was merely checking future angles or positions, now you've sharked her- making her feel self conscious and breaking her train of thought. If you tell her and she gratefully takes the advice, going for the correct ball, she will either run out or she won't. If she runs out, you both feel crappy- you because you lost, and she because she didn't really earn the win. If she doesn't get out, you sharked her anyway, making her feel too self conscious and guilty to complete the run. (And it sounds like she's more than ready to blame you for anything, anyway.)

The best is to follow Tom's logic above- you can't tell her it's the wrong ball, the wrong english, the wrong anything. Let her play her game, you play yours.

Our hardest lessons come from our biggest mistakes, and if she could take responsibility for her shooting the wrong shot (instead of putting that blame on you), she will have definitely learned to pay attention.

And don't let other people tell you what good sportsmanship is when they can't be good sports themselves. A good sport in her place would have shaken your hand, congratulated you, and went back to the room to think about how to better focus under pressure.

Sheesh- her behavior is classic blaming the other guy for her loss, plus trying to sour your win because she feels stupid. Don't give her that power over you, your game, your emotions- when it's entirely her problem in the first place. Let it go. You're good.

P.S. I don't know anything about the APA, so if there was a rule or something that would have made a difference here, I wouldn't know it. HOWEVER, I do see it's a team event, in which case if you're helping your opponent, you're also selling out your team by doing so.

good post...
 
I might be mistaken but can't your team tell you which ball you are on in APA. If that is the case she should ***** at her own team

I think you're correct. It came as a complete surprise to me too that no one on her team said anything and when it was over she then she called me unsportsmanlike. Still, trying to find some justification for what she'd said I searched my memory for a brief moment. I could scarcely remember back that far in the match. I really hate to be thought of like that, one nasty opinion can really damage your reputation and it's not easily repaired.
 
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I think you're correct. It came as a complete surprise to me too that no one on her team said anything and when it was over she then she called me unsportsmanlike. Still, trying to find some justification for what she'd said I searched my memory for a brief moment. I could scarcely remember back that far in the match. I really hate to be thought of like that, one nasty opinion can really damage your reputation and it's not easily repaired.



For what its worth I think you should let it go. I think every person in this thread agrees that you didn't do anything wrong. Don't change anything. You shouldn't be giving your opponent advice while they are at the table.
 
Great point! Fascinating actually. In football, you are clearly playing your opponent and not the football field. Yet in pool, you play the opponent and the pool table. Some people lean more one way than the other. So I guess it depends on your point of view.

Those that play the opponent will let the other player shoot the wrong ball. Those that play the table will be more likely to tell the opponent they are about to make a mistake.



Playing the table is a good strategy to use from a mental standpoint. That way you don't focus on the person you are playing against and instead use your energy to play the best game you possibly can. I think that is good against a player who is more skilled than yourself.

The thing is that you are playing against a person. If you tell them which ball to shoot should you also point out when they play a shot that you don't agree with? In the game of 8ball where you call ball/pocket I think it would be acceptable if you pointed out to your opponent they called a stripe when they are solids but even if you didn't its still your opponents job to shoot the right balls. In 9ball its a whole other story because people usually don't call ball or pocket.
 
FWIW, it has always been my experience that any peron/persons seated and NOT standing directly over the table have a skewed sight picture of the table's surface and distorted view of shot angles. How many times have you thought someone, possibly a teammate, was shooting a different ball than the one you THOUGHT they were about to shoot at? Happens all the time to me, especially in 8-ball.. It's very easy to think a shooter is attempting to hit the correct ball when in fact they are aiming at another ball. This is especially true when the two balls in the scenario are in close proximity to one another or sometimes even when they are just on the same end of the table.

So, to Celophanewrap I say: You should NOT have any guilty feelings because another person made a mistake, one that you could not possibly have had a good look at, and be a turdbucket for blaming YOU for her mental error. You won fair-and-square, my friend!!!

Let it go.

Maniac
 
So, to Celophanewrap I say: You should NOT have any guilty feelings because another person made a mistake, one that you could not possibly have had a good look at, and be a turdbucket for blaming YOU for her mental error. You won fair-and-square, my friend!!!

Let it go.

Maniac

I feel that Cellophanewrap is GUILTLESS.
Look at it from the other side....if my opponent told me that I was shooting
the wrong ball, and then I run out....How can I enjoy that win?

I actually was shooting the wrong ball once and was told by my opponent....
....I gave him cue-ball in hand......
....I really felt like quitting.
I don't cheat....but I like..."NO QUARTER ASKED FOR OR GIVEN"
 
If she were a friend of mine and came up to me right after the match, explained the situation, and began complaining about you, I'd say, "Wait just a minute... Let me get this straight... *You* shot the wrong ball, but somehow it's *her* fault for not telling you? And that makes her an *unsportsmanlike* player? What planet have you been playing pool on?"

I understand that you don't want to be thought badly of, but you have to understand that there are people in this world that are cry-babies, continual victims, and non-stop whiners. Somehow, nothing they do is wrong, but the world keeps screwing them over. I wouldn't worry about those people's opinions of you cuz they're never gonna like you anyway.

Keep your chin up, and let this one go. You've wasted *way* too much time and energy on that opponent.
 
A good pre-shot routine would include walking the table and identifying each ball and the easiest position for making them.
 
Does the football player go "sorry for knocking down that pass you threw....try that down again..."



I continue to be amazed at people who get upset because you didn't tell your opponent that they were shooting the wrong ball...or the shot they were shooting would be a foul...or any other of the many rules that exsist...

Its a sport.

There are winners and losers...

I played somebody in a tournament and when I made him follow the rules he got upset and i was told he was 15 and it was his first tournament.

My reply well he is playing with the big boys now so he might as well learn the rules now.

It is your job to know the rules..ignorance is no excuse

Its not my job to remind you of what ball you should be shooting...you should be paying attention to the table like I am...


R
 
If it's a friendly game, yes I say something in a heart beat. Any kind of formal competition, forget it.

If we are in a formal competition, it's not my responsibility to keep my opponents head in the game, nor to think for them. It's not my job to tell you to quit farting around, stop flirting around, stay off the phone, quit texting, or anything of this nature. If you are in a formal competition, keep your head in the game.

Most folks need a reason as to why they lost.....table rolled off, cloth to fast, cloth too slow, and so forth. Her reason for losing is silly. She should have looked around the table and she would have seen the correct ball.
 
You are correct by most rules

I was in a match this past summer and something happened that continues to bother me today whenever I think about it. Playing 9 ball, if you notice your opponent is about to shoot the wrong ball, do you say anything?

In my situation, I had just played a pretty good safe and I was assuming that my opponent was trying to line up a kick. She addressed the table and promptly shot the wrong ball. Eventually I won the match and when I approached my opponent to shake hands I was told that my behavior was very unsportsmanlike and were it that she was in a similar situation she definitely would have said something. I kind of got the angry "Earl" hand shake and throw away. I apologized and tried to explain but she would have none of it.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive, but I hate being thought of that way. I believe in the old axiom - Treat one as you would like to be treated. But to be honest, even if I knew she was shooting the wrong ball I can't be for sure that would have said something. I know in many situations, if you're unfamiliar with your opponent, it may looked at as being very impolite to say anything, or you get that look, as if to say, "If you are trying to shark me I'll beat you with my cue butt".
So, what do you do? Anyone...?

You are correct by most rules of the game. You don't have to tell your opponet if they are shooting the wrong ball.

But is that the way you want to win? If so your not in the wrong. BUT!!!!
I myself will tell my opponet if they are shooting the wrong ball MOST of the time.
Will I lose because i did this? it's possible but I doubt if it has more than 5% of the outcome of the match.
I'll take that risk of 5% losing. I would rather be known as the (FAIR) guy or as (SOME) would say sportsmanlike.
Remember it's only a GAME.
Have you ever noticed that the NICE guy always has more people in his corner than the (%*!&#@#) Guy? It's a nice feeling when your in the late rounds of a tournament & many people are hoping you shoot well & win. :-)
 
You are correct by most rules of the game. You don't have to tell your opponet if they are shooting the wrong ball.

But is that the way you want to win? If so your not in the wrong. BUT!!!!
I myself will tell my opponet if they are shooting the wrong ball MOST of the time.
Will I lose because i did this? it's possible but I doubt if it has more than 5% of the outcome of the match.
I'll take that risk of 5% losing. I would rather be known as the (FAIR) guy or as (SOME) would say sportsmanlike.
Remember it's only a GAME.
Have you ever noticed that the NICE guy always has more people in his corner than the (%*!&#@#) Guy? It's a nice feeling when your in the late rounds of a tournament & many people are hoping you shoot well & win. :-)

How can ask "is that the way you want to win?", when you admit that you "tell my opponent if they are shooting the wrong ball MOST of the time"?

So, every now and then when YOU don't tell your opponent they're shooting the wrong ball, it's okay. But when Celophanewrap does it once, it's wrong?
 
How can ask "is that the way you want to win?", when you admit that you "tell my opponent if they are shooting the wrong ball MOST of the time"?

So, every now and then when YOU don't tell your opponent they're shooting the wrong ball, it's okay. But when Celophanewrap does it once, it's wrong?

I didn't say (Celophanewrap) was wrong I said he was within the rules most of the time.

KEYWORD (MOST) of the time when I play against an opponet that plays like that I play the same way SOME times.

So another words what goes around comes around :-)
 
I didn't say (Celophanewrap) was wrong I said he was within the rules most of the time.

KEYWORD (MOST) of the time when I play against an opponet that plays like that I play the same way SOME times.

So another words what goes around comes around :-)

Ok, fair enough. I was just wondering if you were being hypocritical, but now understand that you weren't. This is just a matter of opinion. Some feel it's right to inform the player. Some think it's their own fault for not paying attention. By the way, Celophanewrap is a "she", and she is within the rules EVERY time.
 
wrong ball

If they aren't paying attention to what ball they're playing, how can they expect you to?

I think if you play the wrong ball, the only person you can be mad at is yourself for being an absolute dimwit.


I shot the wrong ball in a match (once) it really pissed me off when the guy I was playing jumped up yell ball in hand,

I still took first place and I still can remember the stack of cash that I won.
damm dumb luck anyway ;)
MMike
 
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