Pool players studying 3C

I think you are making an assumption. I would say Efren probably played 3-c from the start of his playing history. Although billiards may have some learning that can cross over with pool, the biggest problem is the stroke. If you get on the average billiard table, not say one of the heated super speedy tables, and then try to go back to a pool table your game will be a bit messed up. If you are playing a lot of serious pool it may be a good idea to stay away from billiards.

Something interesting, pool players seem to have less problem playing billiards then billiards do playing pool. My wife used to beat Sang Lee playing 9-ball. It was amazing how bad he played pool. Although I have to add that Blumdhal plays jam up 9 ball, he even beat Efren in an exhibition. I didn't know how good Blumdhal played. I was practicing 9 ball and he asked if I wanted to play some. I just assumed he meant Billiards and started to walk over to the billiards table. Who in their right mind would not want to play Blumdahl billiards. He said know lets play pool. I was shocked how good he played.
I'd agree that playing 3C when you're a pool player can mess you up a bit. Faster Table, Larger Balls, and all the rest. But that being said exposure to the game for B players and below has lots of benefits.

Learning natural tracks of the CB: I've noticed beginners having a hard time visualizing, for example a 4 rail shot Short,Long,Short, Long. While at the same time have no problem seeing the same shot only banking an OB.

Learning how to spin the CB and how much. IMO most pool shots can be and maybe are made on the vertical axis with various speeds. There's not much occasion to load up the CB with side so pool players in general don't have experience in those areas of the CB. If you tell them to get out there 3 tip many will think you're putting them in a miss cue zone.

Your comment about Sang Lee makes me feel a whole lot better. I'm probably a C- pool player. Maybe worse. CB goes where I want, OB goes bouncing around the table. Not a winning formula.
 
I went 15 years of on again off again pool where I felt like I never got better. Alot of that had to do with my practice discipline and many other factors like starting a career and family.

Recently, in the last 2 years, I have improved. I have been taking lessons from a great billiard player here in Miami. Jude you probably know Robert Raiford if you know Ira since they are good friends.

If you manage to locate a good coach who is skilled at 3c as I have, it can really benefit your pool game. I still havent even gotten to the 3c table yet, instead we have been working only on different aspects that apply to 3c but are useful on the pool table.
 
3C experts - have they settled on a standard table, cloth, etc. for 3c?
Sort of how a diamond with simonis 860 is almost our standard in pool?
 
Hellz yeah!
If i didn't count nearies...my avg would be an embarrassment !!!

Wish we could pull some folks from the carom section into this exchange. Ther are a few Players over there.

I'd like to make a 3C table for dummies. I'm envisioning a wee bar table with a surface and rails that are akin to an air hockey table. The balls will just keep going!
 
A pro pool player would see more returns from spending hundreds of hours practicing his 10-ball break than from spending hundreds of hours learning 3C.

But if you spend hundreds of hours on your break, you only get good at one thing, the break.
 
3C experts - have they settled on a standard table, cloth, etc. for 3c?
Sort of how a diamond with simonis 860 is almost our standard in pool?

Not sure about the cloth, but if I'm not mistaken, they HAVE settled on a standard pocket size. :)
 
I'd like to make a 3C table for dummies. I'm envisioning a wee bar table with a surface and rails that are akin to an air hockey table. The balls will just keep going!

You may not be making something up. I was at Raymond Ceulemans room Mr 100's in Belgium and there are a number of 4 x8 billiard tables there. Most of the players on the small tables were playing straight rail. Before this I never saw a small billiard table, I didn't even know they existed.
 
When I was documenting Cue Ball patterns for the "Table Map Library", one of the surprising discoveries was how a wide variety of two and three rail kick patterns would narrow to cross specific areas of the table.

Another discovery was that, from any point on the table, there were four or more ways to get the cue ball to enter any specific area on the table. True, some of them were one railers, but most were three and four cushion kicks that were as sure as tossing a two-headed coin and calling heads.

The Table Map Library has been provided free to everyone on my web site.

Here is the direct link:
http://www.billiardgods.com/TML/index.html

Have fun with it - there are more than 3000 shots and shot patterns displayed. You can print out the interesting ones.
 
3C experts - have they settled on a standard table, cloth, etc. for 3c?
Sort of how a diamond with simonis 860 is almost our standard in pool?
For tournaments there are equipment specs. The minimum slate thickness 1 3/4 inch but most manufacturers use 2-inch slates or thicker. The table is required to have an electric heating system.

The standard for cloth is Simonis 300 (Super Rapide) or Granito M depending on the sponsorship of the tournament. I haven't heard of any other cloth being used for major tournaments.

The standard tournament balls are Aramith Pro with the spots (measles). The spots were originally designed for carom and moved into pool and sometimes snooker.
 
Mike Dechaine plays pretty good 3-C (for a pool player).

Not THAT good, lol. He was even offered a world class player as a coach to play against a 'B' player recently for good money and he did not take it.

Maybe he will be in time, because at least he is giving it a go, but he is not there yet.
 
You hear commentators mentioning Efren's 3-cushion abilities all the time, and how they contribute to his magical level of cue ball control. Similar comments are often made about Ga-Young Kim on the womens' side of things, and Jeannette Lee to some extent as well.

What I'm getting at is that it seems to be a no-brainer that 3C knowledge is a helpful thing to have while playing pool. Everyone seems to agree on this.

But do any of the top players spend any time studying the game, or do they ever compete at it? I never hear about it, besides Efren's (and Ga-Young's) past. Maybe some of you know other high-level pool players that also enjoy some 3C from time to time. If not, I wonder why not?

-Andrew


Is I've previously said, I'm a big fan of cross-training when it comes to pool. About 10 years ago I had the chance to play in a national 3C qualifier, with my dear buddy, John Lavin, of Red Shoes fame up in Chicago. Here's an excerpt from that discussion on RSB at the time:

#####
...Well, was there was some brief toe tapping, but I didn't exactly get the
chance to do a polka. The tables just ate me up. They were heated Sogaards
that played totally different form the ancient Brunswick I practiced on the
week before. (The first time I put my hand on the table I was momentarily
transported back to my youth as I recalled the last time I said to myself
in surprise, "But it's so warm... ")

Also, they were putting secret sauce on the balls, so that didn't help me
either. It went something like this (round robin flights of seven):

Lou loses 20-15
Lou loses 20-17
Lou loses 20-9 (George Ashby can still play some :-)
Lou wins 20-5 (a quick soft shoe behind the scorer's table)
Lou loses 20-19 (ouch, had two swings at the game ball, er point)
Lou Lose 20-12

Everyone was very nice and gentlemanly and all, but the next time there is a
pool player vs billiard player argument here, I collected MORE than enough
ammo in what I saw and heard there. Not only all the petty back stabbing on
the rail I heard (as well as tales from previous events :-) but also, from
personally playing genuwine 3C players.

A quick story: I was warming up with a gentleman who would eventually make
it to the final round. This fellow was clearly getting agitated that a mere
"pool player," playing with a fat old pool cue no less (ohmegod), fresh off
the street, was beating him to death. Halfway through the game, all the
gentlemanly chalk tapping stopped. And as I peeled off the last two points
to beat him 25-23, the look on his face left absolutely no doubt that he was
ferverently wishing my head would explode mid-stroke.

All in all though, it was a nice event and a great experience. The owners,
Susan and Todd Farthing, were very warm and cordial hosts. The tables were
immaculate and I think with a few days practice on them, I'd grow to like
them. I also had a chance to talk to Bill "The Hawk" Hawkins, who due to
deteriorating health, was in a wheel chair. I introduced myself and told
him that I had refereed one of his matches at the "Rocket City Open" in
Lompoc, CA back in 1977. Mentally, he's still sharp as a tack, and we
talked about that event and players we knew. He shook my hand and
thanked me for coming up and reminiscing with him.

George Ashby was also a pleasure to talk to. Very knowledgeable and happy
to answer any question. I talked to him for quite a while about the tables,
players, and St. Louis.

Of course for me, the highlight of the trip was seeing my old bud from
Chicago, Monsignor Lavin. We killed many a Michelob after hours, but I
told him, as we left the tournament venue, "The next time I suggest going to
a billiard tournament: "Just kick me in the teeth."
#####

Lou Figueroa
 
Somebody had a cherry-poppin today.

Scored on his first two shots...that's how the game sucks you in. Next thing you know, you are asking how much the house cues cost- coz you just smashed two,
 
You may not be making something up. I was at Raymond Ceulemans room Mr 100's in Belgium and there are a number of 4 x8 billiard tables there. Most of the players on the small tables were playing straight rail. Before this I never saw a small billiard table, I didn't even know they existed.
oh yes. the traditional tables in Belgium are 2m60 , small tables , in fact.
There you play straight rail on 2.60m as long as you reach the general average on 25.0 at straight rail (!!!!) , then you can play on the 3.10m (10') table league:) .
same goes for 3C , you learn it on 8' (2.60m) , and once you reach 0.600 general average on the 2.60m (8') then you can play on the 3.10m (10') league.

as you can understand, the word "beginner" has an uncommon sense in Belgium :) . You're a beginner in Belgium as long as you are under 25.0 general average at straight rail and 10.0 at balkline. :) . you see ?

they play very, very, very, very strong billard in belgium.
 
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