Pool Players - What makes them good?

G

gwvavases

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What makes people good pool players?

Seems like everyone says that it takes lots and lots of practice to become a good player. I can buy that, but it doesn't go far enough.

If lots and lots of practice (even proper, effective practice) was all it took, then there would be more old-timers winning more tournaments, and more younger players would be just average ball-bangers. Some people are just born to it, it seems. Others seem to have a hard time just forming a proper bridge or can't even come close to delivering a straight stroke.

Smart people are often beaten by dumb people (and vice versa).

Some people play for years and years and never improve their games beyond mediocrity. Others become champions after only a few years.

So...how much of a player's game is determined by:

-- innate ability/natural talent
-- intelligence
-- lots and lots of practice
-- personality
-- heart
-- physical attributes (including eyesight)

If someone has been playing for 10 or 20 years, yet is still only an average player, is he (or she) unlikely to ever become a champion?
 
gwvavases said:
What makes people good pool players?

Some people play for years and years and never improve their games beyond mediocrity. QUOTE]

Most of these players have self limited their ability. They won't take a lesson, read a pool book, watch a pool video tape, or ask a more knowledgable player a question. This is because they believe they already know it all.

Snoozy
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Ability, creativity and consistancy- probably others, but that's all I could rhyme anyway...

-pige
 
Confidence.....

This is the key.

If you do not have to think about pocketing the ball because you KNOW it is going in....all your effort can be directed to the little white ball and controlling it....which is the key to playing great pocket billiards.

Playing with confidence, stroking with confidence, controlling that cueball with confidence.
 
gwvavases said:
What makes people good pool players?
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In my opinion, it is respect for the game itself. I don't care if you can run 30 or 400. I don't care if you always take the dough or choke for the cokes. I don't care if you take the nationals at vegas or just play APA once a week for enjoyment. What really shows me a lot of 'heart' is when someone, young or old, can win or lose humbly, without hootin' and hollerin' doing a touchdown dance or snapping their cue, blaming the table or the sun in their eyes. It is simple, humble respect for the sheer enjoyment of watching the balls roll, playing that perfect position, or achieving that long held internal goal.....whatever it might be. I have a great deal of respect for that guy, you know, the first one into the room in the morning, no one else around, no loud music.......just one person, a wood cue, green felt, and a bunch of balls just waiting to test him. Yes, I think the best players of all have respect.......................
DC
 
ZigZag Master said:
Confidence.....

This is the key.

If you do not have to think about pocketing the ball because you KNOW it is going in....all your effort can be directed to the little white ball and controlling it....which is the key to playing great pocket billiards.

Playing with confidence, stroking with confidence, controlling that cueball with confidence.
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This is exactly what I keep telling a friend of mine. But he keeps on insisting that 'position without possession' is not going to work. You see, that confidence your talking about, not having to think about pocketing the ball. Well, every now and then I have a little to much of it and my buddy Ken hollers "position without possession" so that everyone around can hear it. The exception to the rule being when your playing on triple shimmed pockets. You had better pay a little more attention to possession then.

Back to the original question in this post. It is very interesting to me because I had reached a plateau in my playing and was getting a little frustrated about not getting any better. I decided to take lessons and guess what? It's working, after 4 months I'm defiantly seeing improvement.

I'm 52 years old and still learning and improving. As far as it being a young mans game. Well, if my sight and legs hold out, you had better look out in about 2 to 5 years! So I would have to say that, Time, Desire, and Knowledge are what makes a good player.

JR
 
On the point of older players not dominating everything, do people think it's because:

-Eyesight and/or body begin to let people down as they grow older;

-The concentration doesn't hold so well as you get older or;

-As you get older, people begin to lose their desire to play and improve?

Or is there something else?
 
practice is important whether you are intermediate or great. so in that sense, practice makes perfect.

but to look at a game through the eyes of a great player is another issue. no one can,,,but suffice it to say, a "great" sees details no one else can. he sees the subtle nuances of every and any manuever and their ramifications,,,,that would go unnoticed to the normal player. it is simply another, more stratospheric level of play and awareness.

ever notice how your local great player bounces everyone in the room, and you think there can't be any way to play better.........and then he gets bounced by a pro....and then that pro gets bounced by efren. it is almost beyond comprehension and is certainly hard to quantify,, except what you see is what is.

there is only so much that can be "learned" by the book. the born great have a creativity spark that can't be duplicated.
 
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bruin70 said:
practice is important whether you are intermediate or great. so in that sense, practice makes perfect.

but to look at a game through the eyes of a great player is another issue. no one can,,,but suffice it to say, a "great" sees details no one else can. he sees the subtle nuances of every and any manuever and their ramifications,,,,that would go unnoticed to the normal player. it is simply another, more stratospheric level of play and awareness.

ever notice how your local great player bounces everyone in the room, and you think there can't be any way to play better.........and then he gets bounced by a pro....and then that pro gets bounced by efren. it is almost beyond comprehension and is certainly hard to quantify,, except what you see is what is.

there is only so much that can be "learned" by the book. the born great have a creativity spark that can't be duplicated.
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Yes practice is important, but you have to practice the right things. The pool hall I play at has a bunch of regulars there that practice every single day 5-8 hours every day. These guys are merely banging balls they are not working on there game. They throw out 9 balls and try to run them and they either do or do not. These guys are showing no improvement. You need to go in and practice the shots that you are having trouble with, practice cue ball control, practice shooting shots using every type of english.
I don't see these guys doing any of this, and I feel they are wasting time. I feel they are merely maintaining there current speed as opposed to making improvements. I go in a try to work on my game and don't spend even 20% of the time these guys do and I feel I am maintaing my game just the same.
 
Now that I think about it, personality would be a big factor.

I guess it is like working on a project for your home like building a fence.

Some [patient] people will take a lot of time and care to do it right, buy or rent the proper tools to do the job, and if the job is not done correctly, they will tear it down and start over.

Other [impatient] people will just slap up their fence and don't really care about quality, how it looks, or how it is done.

Some pool players can't stand to lose a game - ever! Because of this, they will not play better players. If running a tournament, they will ban the better players so they can win. This additude will be sure to keep their playing at the same level.

And some players only play games with other players and refuse to practice or learn. They are bad at the same shots (and always will be) such as balls frozen to a rail, yet they will not practice these shots as they are frustrating and difficult. When they have a shot like that, they say "I'm bad at those shots".

A player who will improve will be willing to play the best players and lose game after game after game. Also if they are confronted with a shot which they are having trouble with, they will do nothing else but practice that difficult shot, and keep at it. Even if they are missing many of the practice shots and the practice is frustrating.
 
Pin said:
On the point of older players not dominating everything, do people think it's because:

-Eyesight and/or body begin to let people down as they grow older;

-The concentration doesn't hold so well as you get older or;

-As you get older, people begin to lose their desire to play and improve?

Or is there something else?
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Pin, to your list I'd add:

- gradual decline in general hand/eye coordination

- nerves make it harder to stay still as you grow older
 
Pin and SJM,
On the subject of age-related pool proficiency. I would agree with all of your points, but I think by far the most important reason that older players are not stomping the younger players is that they lose the all-encompassing desire that allows the young to single-mindedly focus on achieving excellence, at the expense of other (perhaps more important) things in life. A lifetime of experience (or a couple of months of marriage), will demonstrate to a player that there may be more important things in life than continuous pool playing. Older players who still have the desire to excel can do so (see Luther Lassiter's story in "Hustler Day's", or get a tape of Irving Crane in his 60's or 70's). Pool is not so physically demanding that an older person cannot excel. Mountaineers who conquer a peak do not just keep climbing the same mountain over and over, they move on to new challenges - and so do people who master a sport.

P.S. - SJM, did you see my response to your post in the "Happy 4th" thread?
 
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bill190 said:
Now that I think about it, personality would be a big factor.

I guess it is like working on a project for your home like building a fence.

Some [patient] people will take a lot of time and care to do it right, buy or rent the proper tools to do the job, and if the job is not done correctly, they will tear it down and start over.

Other [impatient] people will just slap up their fence and don't really care about quality, how it looks, or how it is done.

Some pool players can't stand to lose a game - ever! Because of this, they will not play better players. If running a tournament, they will ban the better players so they can win. This additude will be sure to keep their playing at the same level.

And some players only play games with other players and refuse to practice or learn. They are bad at the same shots (and always will be) such as balls frozen to a rail, yet they will not practice these shots as they are frustrating and difficult. When they have a shot like that, they say "I'm bad at those shots".

A player who will improve will be willing to play the best players and lose game after game after game. Also if they are confronted with a shot which they are having trouble with, they will do nothing else but practice that difficult shot, and keep at it. Even if they are missing many of the practice shots and the practice is frustrating.
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This turned into a pretty good thread, and Bill makes some good points about personalities.

Somewhere I read a theory about why players may stop improving, and it has to do with their self analysis. The concept is that many pool players (and golfers too, BIG TIME !) believe that they are better than they are. They take on shots thinking they have the shot, when really they have it maybe 3 in 10 (not great odds IMO). I mentioned in my inaugural post that I use the Pro Book as a practice guide. By his standard, shots are to be pocketed, with the cue ball ending up within a specific measured area, anywhere from 75% to 90% depending on the difficulty. This is the kind of measurement that one needs to take of you are to accurately guage your skills. If you ask any pool player what percentage they can make any given shot (pot the OB and place CB in desired position), most will overestimate their skill. By comparison, ask any golfer how far they can hit a particular club, and they will mostly overestimate or remember that 'once in a lifetime' distance. This attitude contributes to poor decisions while playing, which leads to lossing. But moreover it makes these people believe that they do not need to practice or work hard at improving because they think they are already good.

BTW, I hit a driver 375 yards, can pot 9 of 10 straight 'spot' shots, and am definately an above average driver :)

Dave

OK, I can't hit a driver, my 3 wood goes about 220 - 240 (lots of slop) , I am doing well if I hit 7 of 10 straight table-length shots, won't mention my results on any other shots, but am still an above average driver !
 
Williebetmore said:
Pin and SJM,

P.S. - SJM, did you see my response to your post in the "Happy 4th" thread?
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Saw it, Willie. Great stuff. Kind of figured you knew about "Tippecanoe and Tyler, too." Though I knew of Tippecanoe, too, I didn't know that the battleground was in Indiana. I'm sure a visit would be worthwhile, but October's a long way away, and I never plan that far ahead.

We'll see how thngs go and maybe, just maybe, consider the matter again in a couple of months. Hope you're well and that you're in dead stroke.
 
gwvavases said:
What makes people good pool players?

[snip]
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How does one define "good?" Is it the ability to win?...to lose with dignity?...to do one's best?...to impress a woman/man?..to..._______?

I define "good" as successful. That is, when I shoot, every shot had better be integrated with my long-term goals, thus adding to them. This means shots that go in, get shape OR do NOT go in or get shape. Both things WILL happen as long as I continue to shoot, correct? So the goal for me is to be able to make missed and made shots add to my happiness.

My longest-term, biggest goal is: abiding happiness for me and those I love. IF my pool shot adds to that, I'm good.

Jeff Livingston
 
I think the answer to the question is real simple. And it isn't discipline, focus, practice, etc. All of those are _ways_ you can improve, but not the driving force behind the "good" player. Players who have a desire to improve, do so. They find a way. When you stop having that desire, or the inclination to act on it, then you stop improving. That's all there is to it.

Just my opinion.
jer9ball
 
To some, this may not be the best way to get better. But for me, it was the only way. My game sky-rocketed in 2 years because I gambled and got tired of losing my money. I watched the good players play, I asked questions, I read books, I watched videos, and I matched up with whoever I could. I played a guy one day for about 6 hours, spotting him the 7, and won about $1,100. As soon as we finished playing, I started another game, getting the 7 from Mark Tad. I won that too, maybe 5 or 600. While playing Mark, getting the 7, the game seemed so damn easy after giving up the 7 for all those hours. During big tournaments, I sat for hours watching Efren, Varner, Archer, Strickland, Davenport, Hall, and whoever else was there at the time, just to see what their approach to the game was all about. I noticed very early that what they did with the cue ball was amazing, never hit a shot hard, and always played the rails when they could to get position on the next shot. Keep the cue ball in the middle of the table and you can damn near make every shot during your run-out. To this day, if I have a small area for position, I look to the middle of the table to see if I can make the next ball from there. If so, I play the cue ball from there on the next shot. So, with this in mind, I'd say, gambling and watching better players play helped my game tremendously.
 
What makes a great player is desire. By this I mean dreaming about the game all night, and thinking about it all day long. Having the desire to become a champion will help get you there. This desire is what causes players to do most of what all of you mentioned already- tons of practice, gambling alot (paying your dues), taking lessons, watching videos, etc. In all honesty, to become a good player, all it really takes is desire, and THOUSANDS of hours spent on the table, literally. There is no quick-fix to become a great player.
 
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