Pool Poll (Willie or Fats?)

Which style of pool do you care for?

  • Willie Mosconi

    Votes: 69 66.3%

  • Minnesota Fats

    Votes: 35 33.7%
  • Total voters
    104
  • Poll closed .
Mosconi and Fats were the typical Straight man/Funny man duo. I saw that episode. I liked seeing Mosconi tell everyone Fats is a big mouth and that he would beat him handily and then doing it. The two being so opposite in style and manners made it very entertaining. I sat near Fats at a BBQ once and he was wide open entertainment. I doubt anyonme will ever replace him, but maybe someone will make some kind of impact like he did. Had anyone ever heard Mike Sigel referred to as "The Mouth" before the IPT? I had not. I had seen him play in pro events in the 80's and he was not anymore mouthy than anyone else. I think they were hoping to make him the new Fats of the IPT. If the financial model of the IPT had been a little more sound I think they would have done tons for creating interest in pool.
 
cueman said:
Mosconi and Fats were the typical Straight man/Funny man duo. I saw that episode. I liked seeing Mosconi tell everyone Fats is a big mouth and that he would beat him handily and then doing it. The two being so opposite in style and manners made it very entertaining. I sat near Fats at a BBQ once and he was wide open entertainment. I doubt anyonme will ever replace him, but maybe someone will make some kind of impact like he did. Had anyone ever heard Mike Sigel referred to as "The Mouth" before the IPT? I had not. I had seen him play in pro events in the 80's and he was not anymore mouthy than anyone else. I think they were hoping to make him the new Fats of the IPT. If the financial model of the IPT had been a little more sound I think they would have done tons for creating interest in pool.
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Interestingly, I was watching an old "Law and Order" the other night, where Lennie Briscoe went undercover to play pool with a mob guy, trying to win his confidence. The episode aired in 2004, I think, and was entitled Payback: The investigation into the murder of a former bookie turned mob informant reveals a disturbing new wrinkle in organized crime involving legitimate businessmen moonlighting as contract hitmen in a battle for mob leadership, and ends with a Federal ploy to nullify the plea bargain in the case, leaving McCoy seething and two more people dead.

Of course, diehard L&O fans know that the late Jerry Orbach who played the character of Detective Lennie Briscoe was a huge pool fan, and he could play too.

In the scene, the mob guy was played by the actor, Joseph R. Gannascoli, who later became the husky gay mobster character from The Sopranos.

So the mobster watches Detective Lennie Briscoe hit a few balls. Lennie makes a three-rail backwards bank shot in the side pocket. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you'd have to see it to believe it. :embarrassed2:

The mobster says to the detective, "Where'd you learn how to play pool like that?" to which Lennie Briscoe replies, "Oh, Jersey Red and Captain Hook."

Captain Hook used to be Mike Sigel's nickname. He didn't get "The Mouth" nickname until the IPT came to the fore. It is amazing that he didn't get any flack from the poker player named Mike the Mouth. Both of them were present at the IPT tournament in Vegas, two Mike the Mouths. :eek:

In 1986, when Mike Sigel came to compete in the Maryland State Championship, his license plate on his car was "CPT HOOK."

This was one of the last episodes that Jerry Orbach played in, as he passed away from pancreatic cancer in 2004. Here is an interesting YouTube clip where he speaks briefly about a pool table figurine on his desk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lQ4mmR7RgU

JAM
 
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I gotta say "Fats" hell I'm "Fatboy" so the fat guys need to stick together. Even if get skinny I'm still "Fatboy" for that matter. And I cant play either but do talk alot of shit and bet high when I see a spot.


Fats was awesome, the way he carried on and on, I know some people hated it, Too bad. He was right in that video clip JAM posted on the first page, there are hustlers and scufflers, at one point I was a scuffler(or a loser according to Fats) and I hated it, so I fixed it. Now I'm a fish ;) I make action where I can, do things for players when I want not when they ask, create games etc and it makes me more than it costs me, however I wouldnt want it as a day job.

Mosconi didnt have to go to the route Fats went because he played great, but when you dont play great you have to have another angle or hustle to survive in pool, I would give up being around pool if cost me $$$ in the long run, Fats would have too. Guys like Mosconi, Archer play so good $$ comes to greatness so they dont have to work a hustle etc. all they need to do is play great. But the guys who arnt great players are more colorful than the greats most of the time, Keith is an exception.
 
hmmmm

Steve Ellis said:
Yes, and the operative word is comfortable. Kind of like the way you see Johnny Archer dressed, neat but not inhibited physically.
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Have to agree... I see the old photos of Mosconi, Crane, Balsis etc... playing in tuxedos and I just can't imagine that. Heck, I can personally attest that over the years I play better or worse depending on how comfortable my clothes are feeling.

As for making the pick between Fats and Willie Mosconi I can't. Both did so much or there games in there own way. Thing is that Fats was certainly not as skilled at the table as Mosconi but Mosconi as stated was incredibly dull. If Fats was close to being as skilled as Mosconi I would take Fats. However, his woofing at Mosconi was senseless woofing which to me is like dead noise. Nothin wrong with talkin some smack... having some fun.... and entertaining if you can back it up
 
I'd be for a combination of both. The skill and precision of Mosconi and the entertainment value of the the Fat man.
 
JAM said:
Interestingly, I was watching an old "Law and Order" the other night, where Lennie Briscoe went undercover to play pool with a mob guy, trying to win his confidence. The episode aired in 2004, I think, and was entitled Payback: The investigation into the murder of a former bookie turned mob informant reveals a disturbing new wrinkle in organized crime involving legitimate businessmen moonlighting as contract hitmen in a battle for mob leadership, and ends with a Federal ploy to nullify the plea bargain in the case, leaving McCoy seething and two more people dead.

Of course, diehard L&O fans know that the late Jerry Orbach who played the character of Detective Lennie Briscoe was a huge pool fan, and he could play too.

In the scene, the mob guy was played by the actor, Joseph R. Gannascoli, who later became the husky gay mobster character from The Sopranos.

So the mobster watches Detective Lennie Briscoe hit a few balls. Lennie makes a three-rail backwards bank shot in the side pocket. I'm not sure how to describe it, but you'd have to see it to believe it. :embarrassed2:

The mobster says to the detective, "Where'd you learn how to play pool like that?" to which Lennie Briscoe replies, "Oh, Jersey Red and Captain Hook."

Captain Hook used to be Mike Sigel's nickname. He didn't get "The Mouth" nickname until the IPT came to the fore. It is amazing that he didn't get any flack from the poker player named Mike the Mouth. Both of them were present at the IPT tournament in Vegas, two Mike the Mouths. :eek:

In 1986, when Mike Sigel came to compete in the Maryland State Championship, his license plate on his car was "CPT HOOK."

This was one of the last episodes that Jerry Orbach played in, as he passed away from pancreatic cancer in 2004. Here is an interesting YouTube clip where he speaks briefly about a pool table figurine on his desk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lQ4mmR7RgU

JAM
Click to expand...

JAM in 1976 I had dinner with Jerry in NY. He got me some tickets to see Chicago and after we went out to JOES on 46th street. He was a wonderful guy and had a pool table in his brownstone. He had a dog that hung out in his front foyer that always bit me when I walked in. You had to bring him carrots to distract him and run up the stairs. The only time that dog jumped up in my arms was when there was a thunderstorm and he was shaking.
Jerry loved pool players and he loved the old school. He had a weekly poker game. He was really one of the guys. You know he told me once that he didnt feel comfortable on film. That he was a stage guy and enjoyed playing before a live audience. He had just finished The Gang that couldnt Shoot Straight which didnt do too well. I told him but you are so good Jerry. He just shook his head knowing the real big money was in TV and Film. This was in 1976. So its no surprise that he did become a big film and tv star. He just needed the right vehicle. He is missed by us all but he will always be a shining example when all eyes are on the most worse of our industry. He was sort of a link between the Mosconi/Fats world. The consumate professional but never losing his humor and the ability to mesmerize the audience.
 
I like mosconi let the play do the talking.As far as pool becoming more popular hmmm.maybe a alot more money all the way around for the average player to actually have a chance at some good money.like poker the problem is its easier to get good at poker you have to love pool to get really good.just my opinion.ps i used to love watching willie and fats on wide world of sports .:thumbup:
 
I must admit that I am a little surprised at the winner so far on this poll. This is really quite interesting.

Yobagua, thanks very much for sharing that story about you and Jerry Orbach. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff that makes AzBilliards forum so special for me. I enjoyed reading that.

BCN did something with Jerry Orbach, Jeanette Lee, David Brenner and others at Amsterdam pool room in New York City.

If you can stand the plethora of commercials in this brief video clip -- AND THEY ARE BRUTALLY TOO DAMN LONG -- you may enjoy seeing some snippets of Jerry Orbach! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MGZHTKJ2lk


JAM
 
Well one thing about it JAM, most people that voted for Mosconi probably never herd Fats in action. Most do know Willie as being deemed the best player ever. I myself have only heard war stories and a few clips from Fats. I do have a instructional video with him and Waylon Jennings thats pretty entertaining. The guy had plenty of character. I talked with a guy I know that played him in the bottom floor of some hotel in Nashville he was staying at. I think you gave him 10 or 20 bucks and played him a game. He said he could talk for sure.
 
I go Mosconi.. by just a slight edge...

the best players should play the most difficult games under the most difficult rules.. in order to determine which one of them is the best...and that was Mosconi's chapter and verse..

but Fats talk and demeanor made pool fun.. talking shit is part of pool and a fun part of pool at that.

it's not sharking it's just having fun..

the best players playing the hardest games while talking smack...

that would get ratings..
 
If you want to have a good time hanging around a player who is/was better than Fats ever thought about being, how would you have liked to hang with Ronnie Allen in his heydays. There was noone better than Ronnie, for talk or shooting.---Smitty
 
I got to see Willie play when I was a kid in the mid 70's and he was a senior then and man he could still play...it was inspiring to see a real Pool Champion of the World play and get to meet him...I still have an autographed picture of him and a picture of him and me together.

Fats was more of a circus act and had his moments and could be funny and had some wit at times....but his act and repetition of the same over and over again got real boring.

Willie was a master and a genius at pool and Fats was entertaining on occasion.

My vote was an easy choice.

Hirun526
 
HIRUN526 said:
I got to see Willie play when I was a kid in the mid 70's and he was a senior then and man he could still play...it was inspiring to see a real Pool Champion of the World play and get to meet him...I still have an autographed picture of him and a picture of him and me together.

Fats was more of a circus act and had his moments and could be funny and had some wit at times....but his act and repetition of the same over and over again got real boring.

Willie was a master and a genius at pool and Fats was entertaining on occasion.

My vote was an easy choice.

Hirun526
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Yes, it's quite apparent who you voted for, looking at your cue joint's collar. :wink:
JoeyA
 
On the other hand I saw Willie in exhibitions in the 60's. I once saw him play our own Jay Helfert once in Hollywood at Ye Billiard Den. Willie was not pleasant and did not like it if someone ran some balls against him or called a foul on him. Hollywood Jack played him in exhibition and after running 49 balls got reamed by Willie for trying to take the limelight away.
Fats was a lot of laughs and you never hated him. Even if a lot of it was hot air he did it in a entertaining way. I felt Fats was a compasssionate person though. He took care of a lot of mutts. Four legged kind as well as two legged.
He always put you in your place by out thinking you. Thats why they called him Double Smarts Fats. Willie out played you.
 
Jule said:
I'll go with Mosconi. I think Minnesota Fats is a poser.
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Shortly after the 1978 match, I met two older players from Chicago who had watched the Fat Man play many times back in the late 1930s and 1940s. They said he should have played Willie one-pocket or banks. They figured Willie would have ended up on the short end of that stick.

Are there any old timers posting here who witnessed Fats play back in the 1940s or early 1950s. Fats turned 50 in 1963 (and 65 when the match with Willie was held) and while not every player's game is past their prime by then, a lot are. BTW Willie was also born in 1913, the same as Fats.
 
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