Pool Room equipment

[Teddy Harris]

Sorry Ted,
I believe you are wrong! Until some of the pool rooms and tournaments you cover begin to suffer the same fate as our rooms, you can sit smuggly in Maryland and chastise us.

I can see you went and read and did your homework...NOT!
Keyword; believe
P.S. I wish it was no smoking here. I don't go to the poolroom anymore, and haven't hit a ball since August. I will be working the first tournament I have worked in months, this coming weekend, at Orange Ball Billiards in Rockville, MD, a no smoking establishment.

I smoked for seventeen years till I quit twenty five years ago.

Congratulations on quitting.

Whether you or my customers smoke does not bother me one bit. If you choose to commit suicide slowly, thats your choice (last I heard, this is still America, but not for long).

Hence, our dilemma, and a very narrow vision. Go ahead, kill yourself! Just don't take me with you!

I'm talking jobs. Not just the ones in our rooms. I mean beer and snack distributors, food service, table manufacturers, banks that finance us, etc.

I implore you to take the time to read the site, you will find that employment is up, sales tax receipts are up, and employees don't have as many sick days, health costs are lower, tourism is up, maintenence costs are less, insurance is cheaper, etc. I could go on forever, but I guess it is a waste of time, as you are not interested in the truth!

In typical myopic vision, all we see is cleaning the air.!

EDITED!
ROTFLMAO! That is too funny...myopic? I see getting rid of tobacco use as ridding the world of the biggest scourge ever perpetrated on the people of the world, in effect saving millions of lives over time, saving trillions of dollars on health care, eliminating the future suffrage of millions of people, etc. I could go on and on...
You see tobacco use coupled with the success of a business as more important! Please don't make me laugh...talk about myopic! Your not serious are you?

Perhaps you should open up a church that worships money!

It is a good thing but at what price? When the States of Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, et al ban smoking and the Federally subsidised growing of tobacco stops, I'll take it and you more seriously. Until then, we'll keep fighting for our economic life!

Again, I would like to state emphatically that if you had exhibited just a little vision, and taken it seriously all along you might have averted this outcome. Good luck to you, sir.

 

[Teddy Harris]

Ted,

You know who I am, and smoking laws here killed both of my rooms. There is no doubt about it, smoking bans, unless put in state wide or even county wide where the playing field is level for all business, is horrible! At least Calif. did a statewide ban. I wish they would heve done that here in AZ. I quit somking in 1981 but I still believe that it is a matter of choice.
I never saw Jays room but I think he did open it after the smoking ban. Sorry to here of it closing.

I don't necessarily like bans that aren't statewide either. But then you will still have problems with a statewide ban, where the establishments that lie on border areas will be affected. That is what happened to Bob Campbells room in Massachussetts. Unfortunate, really. It would be easier for everyone if it went nationwide all at the same time. But you and I both know that will never happen. In any event, we have to start somewhere, sometime...and here we are.

P.S. Congrats on doing so well in that one-pocket tourney not to long ago!

 

[Teddy Harris]

Wow Ted, I'm impressed. Lots and lots of the "little people" have their livelyhoods destroyed. Not to worry, there are lots of jobs available flipping hamburgs. Just what I wanted to do for the rest of my life..

Is that the best you can do?

Tens of thousands of people are maimed or killed by drunk drivers each year. I don't see any major push out there to ban liquor or the advertising and sale thereof.

Standard pro smoking flip-flop...change the subject.
Just in case you haven't noticed, when you drink it doesn't make me drunk. When you drink and drive and kill me, you are going to face the law. Where are the laws to protect the non-smokers?

Several years ago, I watched several top executives of the American tobacco industry testify before Congress, UNDER OATH, that tobacco was not harmful or addictive. All the research and the resultant data was flawed. All those dead or dying people had other underlying health problems. Cigarette smoking was not unhealthy. It was safe! Not one of those executives was ever prosecuted for their crimes against us. Not one! That Ted, is the truth!.

All in the name of "money." Personally, I think they should all be tried and executed for murder. It would be alot more humane than what they have done to us.

The data is wonderful. I see that NYC had a gain in restaurant employment over the rest of the State. Did you happen to correlate that data with the rise and fall of the stock market? Greater New York City is less than 3% of the land mass of the State of New York. It has more than half the population. Not many farmers or apple growers though. We residents of Upstate New York have been burdened by legislation designed to help NYC at the expense of the rest of us for years. We live in a separate but unequal world!

Did you read about California, and the other states, counties, and cities that have gone no-smoking?

 

[cardiac kid]

you will find that employment is up, sales tax receipts are up, and employees don't have as many sick days, health costs are lower, tourism is up, maintenence costs are less, insurance is cheaper, etc. I could go on forever, but I guess it is a waste of time, as you are not interested in the truth!

To the contrary Ted, I'm very interested in the truth. I was taught "if you want to know the truth, follow the money". There is not one item in your list above, that costs less in New York State than ten years ago. Our Governor spent millions of tax payer dollars trying to spread the message nationwide that taxes are much lower in New York State than before he took office. Jobs kept leaving. Finally, the newspapers asked him about the new "fees" that are charged to do business here. It seems the out of pocket business expenses are higher than before, not lower! Our health costs are out of sight. Insurance has skyrocketed. Perhaps your comments are true somewhere. I can tell you for sure they are not here!

ROTFLMAO! That is too funny...myopic? AT this time I would like to quote you..."All I care about is making money." Please, don't make me laugh.

Sorry Ted, you seem to have quoted the wrong person. I don't know where that comment came from but it wasn't me.

You seem to think that I approve of smoking. I detest the stench. I do however accept that in America, you are free to legally smoke where accepted. When that changes, I will adopt your stance. Until then, smokers have rights as legitimate as ours. You don't agree but that does not change the facts.

 

[cardiac kid]

Is that the best you can do?

Not bad for a high school education.

Standard pro smoking flip-flop...change the subject.
Just in case you haven't noticed, when you drink it doesn't make me drunk. When you drink and drive and kill me, you are going to face the law. Where are the laws to protect the non-smokers?

I'm only laughing because drunk drivers have more rights than I do. Ever been to a formal DWI trial? By the time you leave court, the defense lawyer will have you crying for the poor DWI driver. Everyone is at fault except them! Regardless, it is two faces of the same coin. As long as we accept DWI MURDER as a minor crime for which virtually no one goes to jail, smokers will have the same rights.

All in the name of "money." Personally, I think they should all be tried and executed for murder. It would be alot more humane than what they have done to us.

There in lies the problem Ted. Why weren't they tried for lying to Congress? Only in America can we impeach the President for lying about sex but not people who indirectly, OK directly kill others! You ask why Ted.

Did you read about California, and the other states, counties, and cities that have gone no-smoking?

I've read too much. All I see are businesses leaving, quitting or closing. Compromise seems to be a thing of the past. Its all or nothing from now on.

 

[NYPOOL]

ROTFLMAO! That is too funny...myopic? AT this time I would like to quote you..."All I care about is making money." Please, don't make me laugh.

That was me who said it. And why would I care about if you smoke or not compared to me making money.
Something that had been legal in this state since smoking was invented and something that is still legal 15 miles away in Jersey..........yes all I care about is making money. I;m not giving drugs to little kids. And speaking of drugs most of the people I speak with that love the law, smoke weed or snort. But as long as there is no smoking so they're noses can be nice and clean for that heavenly snort.




And as far as lining my pockets, Sept 11th made sure that didn't happen.
I was trying to survive and keep my dream. Did NY really have to ban smoking while trying to drum up business.? Was this the right time?

 

[Teddy Harris]

To the contrary Ted, I'm very interested in the truth. I was taught "if you want to know the truth, follow the money". There is not one item in your list above, that costs less in New York State than ten years ago..

Can you back anything above with hard facts? links? evidence?

Our Governor spent millions of tax payer dollars trying to spread the message nationwide that taxes are much lower in New York State than before he took office. Jobs kept leaving. Finally, the newspapers asked him about the new "fees" that are charged to do business here. It seems the out of pocket business expenses are higher than before, not lower!..

What do taxes & fees have to do with the no-smoking laws?

Sorry Ted, you seem to have quoted the wrong person. I don't know where that comment came from but it wasn't me.!..

Oops!...well, you are both from New York. I think.

P.S. I am going to go back and edit it. You might want to go back and read what I edited...you may want to resond to it!

You seem to think that I approve of smoking. I detest the stench. I do however accept that in America, you are free to legally smoke where accepted. When that changes, I will adopt your stance. Until then, smokers have rights as legitimate as ours. You don't agree but that does not change the facts.

Wait just a minute, who's side are you on? I certainly do think that a smoker should be allowed to smoke where it is legal...it's just that I am going to do everything in my power (voting, discussion, education, etc) to make it illegal...in public.
I think we can finally agree on something.

 

[cardiac kid]

Ted,

We agree on quite alot. I guess the only bone of contention is you appear to have no sympathy for people unable or unwilling to quit smoking. As a former smoker, I understand how difficult it really is. Banning something and forcing addicted people to go without is cruel. I agree that the greatest percentage of businesses should be smoke free. However, if two or more willing adults wish to smoke while playing pool, they are willing to sign their rights away and the area will be sealed as "smoking allowed", then they should be allowed to do so. Simple as that. If you disagree, then "big brother" will be looking in your living room as well as your bedroom. So much for less government.

 

[Teddy Harris]

We agree on quite alot. I guess the only bone of contention is you appear to have no sympathy for people unable or unwilling to quit smoking. As a former smoker, I understand how difficult it really is.

I understand as well. Smoked 4 packs a day before I was able to quit.

Banning something and forcing addicted people to go without is cruel.

What about all the people that died as a result of smoking...that's pretty cruel too, huh?
Maybe we can lessen the burden on smokers over the coming years through education, support, and love. Having been an addicted smoker, and being exposed to drug addicts my whole life, I know that this goal can never be fully achieved through the aforementioned methods. There are some people that will choose the drug over anything. Those people are just gonna have to suffer when the time comes. Traditional drug detox programs have a success rate of less than 10% after the first year. These statistics are even grimmer two years after treatment. For methamphetamine it is less than 1%. Unfortunately, less than 7% of those who try to quit cigarette smoking on their own achieve more than 1 year of abstinence; most relapse within a few days of attempting to quit. Until smokers (the addicts in this case) are willing to look at cigarettes in the same light as we look at other drug abuse, they will never get clean. Those of us that are against smoking have a responsibility to ourselves to police and attempt to govern smoking. What gives us this right? It could be argued that smokers have a right to smoke, but it cannot be argued that a smokers right to smoke stops at my nose. Basically, what I am saying is that I am not going to allow a drug addict to dictate to me what I am going to be exposed to in order to coexist in a public place with them. If a heroin addict stuck a needle into you against your will, he would be charged with multiple crimes, including attempted murder. Why should it be any different for smokers? Meantime, we don't have the time to wait around for selfish smokers to grow out of denial. I am sorry that the smokers are the victims of this heinous scam. Perhaps they should vent their anger towards the tobacco companies that victimized them.
Eventually, it will come down to more government intervention, just as it has now.

I agree that the greatest percentage of businesses should be smoke free.

Is there some unwritten law that states that the only way for a pool room to survive is if it allows smoking?

However, if two or more willing adults wish to smoke while playing pool, they are willing to sign their rights away and the area will be sealed as "smoking allowed", then they should be allowed to do so. Simple as that..

Again, smokers and business owners had the chance to allow that, so long as they also provided a seperate enclosed non-smoking section. About 99% of the businesses that promote smoking did nothing. Perhaps if they had been a little concerned about the rights of their non-smoking customers, instead of thinking only about how much money they were making, things would be a little different. If they had done a little research, they would have discovered that they were being misled by their Restaurant & Bar Associations that are funded by the tobacco companies.

 

[cardiac kid]

Hi Ted,

Please go to www.democratandchronicle.com. This morning, they had an article printed about the state of the school systems in the State of New York. With all the tax revenue information listed, perhaps you can get a better idea of just how devastated the economy of New York is. The smoking law did not bring this upon us. It is just one more nail in our coffin. Unfortunately, this nail goes right through the heart of too many small business owners. Then again, we elect lawyers to represent us. They are too worried about pleasing their major clients, party bosses and being re-elected to worry about me and how my life is going! Jay's problems may not have been caused by the smoking law in California. I'll bet it was a major contributing factor!

 

[Teddy Harris]

Hi Ted,

Please go to www.democratandchronicle.com. This morning, they had an article printed about the state of the school systems in the State of New York. With all the tax revenue information listed, perhaps you can get a better idea of just how devastated the economy of New York is. The smoking law did not bring this upon us. It is just one more nail in our coffin. Unfortunately, this nail goes right through the heart of too many small business owners. Then again, we elect lawyers to represent us. They are too worried about pleasing their major clients, party bosses and being re-elected to worry about me and how my life is going! Jay's problems may not have been caused by the smoking law in California. I'll bet it was a major contributing factor!

Are you trying to create a link between the state of the school system and the no-smoking laws? Won't work, first of all because revenues are up in no-smoking establishments, and New York spends more money per student than any state except Connecticut, yet ranks 27th in the nation. Doesn't sound like they are getting much return on all that money, huh? Secondly, sounds to me like New York needs better parents, better teachers, and better spending habits.

 

[cueball1950]

Hi Ted

Hi Ted.... did you get the email i sent you on pricing a cue out for me. Just a plain Jane 4 pointer. veneers don't matter. either ebony or cocobola points with a matching wrap...........................mike]

 

[Teddy Harris]

Hi Ted.... did you get the email i sent you on pricing a cue out for me. Just a plain Jane 4 pointer. veneers don't matter. either ebony or cocobola points with a matching wrap...........................mike]

check your email..

 

[bobroberts]

Goverment- smoking - going out of business

I am sorry your closing but the goverment does not care about anything but letting the rich get richer, so don't look to them for help.
There are pool rooms here in South Florida folding because they offer nothing but pool..There are other rooms here, making more money then they know what to do with.The 2nd kind offers food,pay per view fights for free,ladies night where they either play or drink for free.Giveaways,raffles.You get the point.
If you want your business to excel,you need to give the public a reason to come to your room.This is not like the old days,where you just had a room full of tables.These days the competition is fierce.If you don't have a gimmick you fail.Simple as that.Don't blame no smoking.Thats a real thin excuse for bad business.I smoked for 30 years and quit.There is no real withdrawal other then mental.The gov. will allow the cigarette companys to stay in business so they can import their product to smoking countries.Besides goverments don't run countries anymore ,corporations do.

 

[cardiac kid]

Are you trying to create a link between the state of the school system and the no-smoking laws? Won't work, first of all because revenues are up in no-smoking establishments, and New York spends more money per student than any state except Connecticut, yet ranks 27th in the nation. Doesn't sound like they are getting much return on all that money, huh? Secondly, sounds to me like New York needs better parents, better teachers, and better spending habits.

Gee Ted,

It seems to me that YOU were the one who originally posted how rosey things were here in New York State. There is a link between property taxation and smoking laws. The more small businesses close, higher taxes for those that remain are the result. All the lost jobs. Waiters and waitresses are people too. Our local university once figured that for every job at Eastman Kodak or Xerox, there were six support jobs created or lost. Clean air is a wonderful thing. If there is no one here to breath it, it is meaningless! Every business here is inter-related to some degree. It is simplistic but I believe in the "Domino" effect. Perhaps revenue is up where you live. It isn't where I live!

How is this one. The textbooks in use at one local high school were many years out of date. Two students had to share because there were not enough books to go around. That same school district just built a new lighted football field and Olympic sized swimming pool. Lots of feel good there. Problem I see is, looking at per student expenditures is misleading. A three million dollar school bond to pay for that sports program is NOT education. Your right, it is the parents fault for asking for the wrong things for their kids.

 

[Teddy Harris]

Gee Ted,

It seems to me that YOU were the one who originally posted how rosey things were here in New York State. There is a link between property taxation and smoking laws. The more small businesses close, higher taxes for those that remain are the result.
<snip>

First of all, nowhere in that article did I see any mention of property taxes and smoking laws. Even if there was a link between property taxes and smoking laws, does that mean that we should allow business owners and smokers to operate without impunity...I don't think so. Haven't we had enough of that from the tobacco companies? Personally, I don't care what it costs a bar/poolroom owner, as most of them did not care one iota about the health and well being of his non-smoking customers; namely me. To those that tried to accomodate smokers, and those that survive the treason of the smokers, I will do everything within my power to support your business at every opportunity. Secondly, I guess you don't believe that more restaurants and bars opened then closed since the ban, huh? And finally, I guess you also don't believe the sales tax receipts of the businesses in question are up as a whole. Incidentally, California has not fallen in the ocean yet, and the restaurant and bar business in the state of California is booming.
This conversation is getting us nowhere...meantime, I gotta go march in a anti-smoking demonstration! Later...

 

[Doodlesbilliard]

Ted your reply may be true in many respects. As a pool room owner myself in Georgia I would close my pool room as soon as anti-smoking laws were put in place. In larger cities such as NYC there is a much more diverse group of people. In other words.... Lets say GA says no smoking in all public places. I don't have a large group of health minded people to show up at my door step to replace the lost business. Nearly 50% of my customers smoke. I think major cities such as NY can most likely support pool rooms and bars of all natures even with the smoking ban. However, I also think that when we apply the same theory across a broader scope we would get terrible results. The US loves its alcohol and tobacco. If you like to show me some stats on how much of our economy is based on these two items I would love to see those. Tax records from the NYC business's don't quite add up to the whole picture. Now let me sum up my statement.....

1. TOBACCO WILL KILL YOU DEAD
2. ALCOHOL WILL KILL YOU DEAD
3. NO ALCOHOL = NO POOL ROOMS
4. NO TOBACCO = NO ALCOHOL
5. THEREFORE NO TOBACCO MUST MEAN NO ALCOHOL WHICH MUST MEAN?
THATS RIGHT! NO POOL ROOMS

 

[larrynj1]

give me a room where i can enjoy a good cigar and a drink please.

 

[BillyB or Is I?]

Smoking

give me a room where i can enjoy a good cigar and a drink please.

I think most of you are missing the point of forcing second hand smoke on others - the argument of just don't go if you don't like smoke doesn't hold water - what of the employees and suppliers who have to work in that environment - I was never a smoker - both my parents were and the both had smoking related diseases - Lung cancer (Mom) and Emphysema (Dad) - my late wife - Lung Cancer - If you had been with me when I rushed home to an emergency phone call only to find our living room floor covered in bloody footprints to seeing my wife in the hospital afterwards for her last two days - you would never smoke again - I don't like to preach to my daughters friends who think it is cool to smoke - but I do make it clear to them the dangers that they think will never happen to them - all too often they do happen.

My wife had the choice to smoke or not - she was addicted started at 14 and she died at 42 - she tried to quit - was unable to - her choice had a profound effect on our family - an effect she wished she could take back but couldn't.

Smoke Free poolrooms - GREAT! I love it in Vegas where it is smokefree - I can wear my clothes for longer than 2 hours before I have to change them

It is sad that a smoking ban has the effect of driving away business - it has been seen here (MN) that there has been an increase in business at establishments that have gone smoke free - maybe those in states or cities where there was no statewide ban - should have helped push for one - in order to keep the playing field level. No easy answers - I think smokers should be able to smoke if they want to without infringing on others rights to breath clean air - also the Tobacco Companys should be prosecuted - they knowingly market to kids and have added addictive substances to their products to keep smokers hooked. That is even by their own admission! Gunna shut up now! I usually have to spout off once about smoking - you won't hear from me again on this topic!

 

[TATE]

Smoking ban did not kill Jay's place.
I think Hard Times and Hollywood Billiards did.

It's pretty sad to see a veteran like him get out.

Chris