Pool Room in Warehouse Space!

[strmanglr scott]

Zoning, fire codes, and other such things would have to be addressed.

It might not be nearly as cheap as you think.

But it could be done.

Zoning came to mind rt away, not that couldn't be worked out most likely.

Our last pool hall closed in Lansing, MI. It was a complete dive. But it did have good tables w good cloth. It was in a part of town you didn't want to walk at night alone. I guess what I'm saying is the rent or payment on that place would have been similar or less than a wharehouse.

So, what does it take to create a successful pool hall?

The place in Lansing was busier than I ever saw it a couple years before it closed. A new owner came in...had several in house leagues, calcutta tournaments that was a big draw, and just regular tourneys and had teams in the city leagues.

Then the owner found some interests that don't end well, I'll just leave it at that.

They had some quick cook food, decent pizza from one of those little pizza ovens.

It can be done, wish it would be done again in this city.

 

[336Robin]

The Nut

5 new Pool halls opening in Houston this month, three are very small with a few bar tables and 2 b' tables, but two of them will have 15 - 20 tables with 4 Gold Crowns.

Pool is alive and well in Texas, maybe its the cheap rent or the crazy population growth which is none stop in Houston, San Antonio, Austin and Dallas or the fact that anybody can get a liquor license.

And that's the real key to owning a good Pool Hall, cheap liquor and eatable food, any food. There are a number of Pool Halls in Houston doing $20,000-$35,000 a month in liquor sales, they don't care about the Pool revenue, its a throw in.

Sale drinks and survive, its simple.

It all depends on the rent, the other expenses and the total nut when cost of goods is figured in. When you have to sell alcohol there are lots of extra expenses and then can you really have warehouse type space? Not and have only 30k invested you can't, now you have to have a kitchen and food too. When you put in coolers, walkin and freezer, ventilation, restaurant equipment that stuff dont come cheap and not many want to go to all of that..

30k Investment.....Can Pool Time pay for it? That is the question.

 

[336Robin]

It could easily take it....

Set up vegetable production on the roof.
Add a solar collection array and use only 12v LED lighting everywhere.
Add a few small wind generators
Rainwater collection/recycling for vegetable production.

In a large enough warehouse, an indoor bike track or skating path could be added.
bocce courts, putting greens.

on sundays you can host drone racing and belt sander drag races

It could easily end up being required.

 

[336Robin]

8 table room

Ok we have an 8 table room here....30k investment

How big a place do we really need would 2000 sq.ft do it?

 

[King T]

Different math$$

It all depends on the rent, the other expenses and the total nut when cost of goods is figured in. When you have to sell alcohol there are lots of extra expenses and then can you really have warehouse type space? Not and have only 30k invested you can't, now you have to have a kitchen and food too. When you put in coolers, walkin and freezer, ventilation, restaurant equipment that stuff dont come cheap and not many want to go to all of that..

30k Investment.....Can Pool Time pay for it? That is the question.

No Kitchen, all the food down here is pop-in the oven and the ovens are table-tops and microwaves, your only trying to keep the customers from leaving, so your serving hold over food(I'll eat more when I get home, this is better then hunger).

The alcohol is all on credit and paid back on net-30, you can also serve beer only to begin with, the beer license is cheap and you can add alcohol later.

You get everything for free that you can and theres a lot that you can and then everything else is leased or rented. It can be done.

 

[strmanglr scott]

That place I went to had really good pizza that came out of a tiny counter top oven. They had a fryer, a microwave and that was about it.

Munchies like T said.

Crunching the space numbers I think your gonna need/want a little more than 2000sq ft.

 

[captainjko]

It all depends on the rent, the other expenses and the total nut when cost of goods is figured in. When you have to sell alcohol there are lots of extra expenses and then can you really have warehouse type space? Not and have only 30k invested you can't, now you have to have a kitchen and food too. When you put in coolers, walkin and freezer, ventilation, restaurant equipment that stuff dont come cheap and not many want to go to all of that..

30k Investment.....Can Pool Time pay for it? That is the question.

Robin.... I'm sure you are calculating to see what you can do..... If you want to really calculate for the purchases of items like the kitchen stuff, I can get you in on some tax auctions for restaurant equipment...... Not buy when you go, but you can see what the items sell for.. There was a good one a few weeks ago in Wilkesboro that had all sorts of stuff...

 

[strmanglr scott]

No Kitchen, all the food down here is pop-in the oven and the ovens are table-tops and microwaves, your only trying to keep the customers from leaving, so your serving hold over food(I'll eat more when I get home, this is better then hunger).

The alcohol is all on credit and paid back on net-30, you can also serve beer only to begin with, the beer license is cheap and you can add alcohol later.

You get everything for free that you can and theres a lot that you can and then everything else is leased or rented. It can be done.

Obviously states differ, but what's a general ballpark for a beer license?

 

[realkingcobra]

Zoning, fire codes, and other such things would have to be addressed.

It might not be nearly as cheap as you think.

But it could be done.

Those are not the big restrictions to opening a pool room in a warehouse. Parking zoning is the one restriction that is impossible to get around, that is how city/County zoning prevents retail business from avoiding hired rental spaces. When parking requirements are 1 stall per 100 square foot of building space for retail use, you'll soon understand why Warehouse Billiards don't exist....in most areas. Not saying it's that way everywhere, but it is everywhere I'm aware of.

 

[Black-Balled]

Hey! How awesome that you got to plug youself!

Your lights would have saved chandleys.

Not.

I could have saved them a TON on the light purchase of bat, but then my led panels CONTINUE to save you money on output and need of air conditioning

 

[336Robin]

Not looking to open a place

Robin.... I'm sure you are calculating to see what you can do..... If you want to really calculate for the purchases of items like the kitchen stuff, I can get you in on some tax auctions for restaurant equipment...... Not buy when you go, but you can see what the items sell for.. There was a good one a few weeks ago in Wilkesboro that had all sorts of stuff...

Im not looking to open a place. Im trying to make a point and crunch these numbers for people to see at the same time. I think I already know the answer but a little unsure what the numbers actually look like but we'll see as they come together.

 

[336Robin]

We found a place!

Ok as luck would have it we found our hypothetical place. Its 2600 sq ft. We have room for the tables and a place to throw a couple of couches and a coffee table a place for the attendant behind a small bar if he wants to operate those table top ovens and make a few sandwiches in them if we decide to do that later on to keep people playing pool. We still have 30k invested. 2600 and are getting it for $3 per square foot or $7800 a year/12= $650 a month.....the electric bill is another $350 average to heat and cool it so we have the monthly layout of $1000 a month.

This is our pool room. We are going to run it. We plan on working everyday and hiring someone maybe for evenings part time. Our part timer is going to work Friday night, Saturday and Saturday Night and Sunday. We get weekends off. Our operation is open at 2pm Saturday and 6pm on Sunday. Friday help works 6pm until 12pm=6hrs Saturday they work from 2pm until 12pm=10 hrs Sunday they work from 6pm until 10pm on Sunday =4 hrs Total part time worker hours= 20 hrs

20 hrs x $8 bucks and hour rounded.=$160.00 a week x 4=$640 a month

We also have to get paid. Before we can get paid we have to be able to pay 1000 a month plus the $640 a month for the part time help.=$1640 per month.

Now how much pool time do we have to sell in order just to meet the $1640?

$1640/3.50hr= 468.58 hrs a month just to meet the nut.

$468.58/4weeks= 118 hrs of pool time you need to sell each week just to meet the nut.

118 hrs / 7 days a week = 17 hrs of Pool time that needs to be sold each day to meet the nut.

You have 8 tables you need 16 people to come in and play a hour or so each day to meet the nut.

Now you have to get paid. For every thousand a month you want to get paid add.286 hours of pool time per month or 72 hours per week. or about 10/11 or so hours extra to the day.

To make the nut is 17 hrs of pool time sold per day
To make $1000 a month for yourself its now 27/28 hrs per day
To make $2000 a month for yourself its not 38/39 hrs of pool time per day.

To get 38/39 hrs of pool time sold a day and you have to be open for lunch and close at 10 pm. So youre working 10hr per day at the very least.

You get 5 to 8 people during the day and they play 2 hrs=16hrs sold
You get 10/12 people in at night they all play 2hrs=24 hrs sold
You sold a grand total of 40 hrs of pool time which puts you right on track to make $2000 a month for yourself this includes the cost of a part time worker for 20hrs and you get to tip a few cues, sell a few sandwiches and drinks and you have a very nice neighborhood pool room.

You also get to work 10 hrs a day Monday through Thursday and 6hrs on Friday and then go home and also do paperwork if you dont do it at the pool room where you also have to have wifi that adds to your expense.

You had better hope your hired help doesnt steal. You had better hope you can get the floor space for $3 a square foot and the rent doesn't go up. You had better hope you can keep the place reptutable and youre private club so you can ask people to leave if you dont like the atmosphere they create.

This is an old timey pool room.

Its time for the Pool Room an Alcohol go to separate ways because the pool tables can't support the kind of square footage cost requirements that you have to pay to have a pool table in a space with higher rates. They can barely afford $3 dollars a square foot. Can you live on 2 thousand gross a month?. A retired guy might can. Question is......Can you sell 40 hrs of Pool time each day?.

 

[realkingcobra]

You also forgot to summarize the landlords triple net added to the rent, don't figure the landlord the pay his own property taxes do you? While your3 at it, might as well throw in the cost of liability business insurance....runs about the same as 10% of your projected income for the first 6 months, then it gets renewed at your real claimed income upon renewal. OH, don't forget them federal taxes, government and start still want their money.....it all adds up, but in most cases what I just mentioned....was NOT figured in on the business plan.

 

[captainjko]

Ok as luck would have it we found our hypothetical place. Its 2600 sq ft. We have room for the tables and a place to throw a couple of couches and a coffee table a place for the attendant behind a small bar if he wants to operate those table top ovens and make a few sandwiches in them if we decide to do that later on to keep people playing pool. We still have 30k invested. 2600 and are getting it for $3 per square foot or $7800 a year/12= $650 a month.....the electric bill is another $350 average to heat and cool it so we have the monthly layout of $1000 a month.

This is our pool room. We are going to run it. We plan on working everyday and hiring someone maybe for evenings part time. Our part timer is going to work Friday night, Saturday and Saturday Night and Sunday. We get weekends off. Our operation is open at 2pm Saturday and 6pm on Sunday. Friday help works 6pm until 12pm=6hrs Saturday they work from 2pm until 12pm=10 hrs Sunday they work from 6pm until 10pm on Sunday =4 hrs Total part time worker hours= 20 hrs

20 hrs x $8 bucks and hour rounded.=$160.00 a week x 4=$640 a month

We also have to get paid. Before we can get paid we have to be able to pay 1000 a month plus the $640 a month for the part time help.=$1640 per month.

Now how much pool time do we have to sell in order just to meet the $1640?

$1640/3.50hr= 468.58 hrs a month just to meet the nut.

$468.58/4weeks= 118 hrs of pool time you need to sell each week just to meet the nut.

118 hrs / 7 days a week = 17 hrs of Pool time that needs to be sold each day to meet the nut.

You have 8 tables you need 16 people to come in and play a hour or so each day to meet the nut.

Now you have to get paid. For every thousand a month you want to get paid add.286 hours of pool time per month or 72 hours per week. or about 10/11 or so hours extra to the day.

To make the nut is 17 hrs of pool time sold per day
To make $1000 a month for yourself its now 27/28 hrs per day
To make $2000 a month for yourself its not 38/39 hrs of pool time per day.

To get 38/39 hrs of pool time sold a day and you have to be open for lunch and close at 10 pm. So youre working 10hr per day at the very least.

You get 5 to 8 people during the day and they play 2 hrs=16hrs sold
You get 10/12 people in at night they all play 2hrs=24 hrs sold
You sold a grand total of 40 hrs of pool time which puts you right on track to make $2000 a month for yourself this includes the cost of a part time worker for 20hrs and you get to tip a few cues, sell a few sandwiches and drinks and you have a very nice neighborhood pool room.

You also get to work 10 hrs a day Monday through Thursday and 6hrs on Friday and then go home and also do paperwork if you dont do it at the pool room where you also have to have wifi that adds to your expense.

You had better hope your hired help doesnt steal. You had better hope you can get the floor space for $3 a square foot and the rent doesn't go up. You had better hope you can keep the place reptutable and youre private club so you can ask people to leave if you dont like the atmosphere they create.

This is an old timey pool room.

Its time for the Pool Room an Alcohol go to separate ways because the pool tables can't support the kind of square footage cost requirements that you have to pay to have a pool table in a space with higher rates. They can barely afford $3 dollars a square foot. Can you live on 2 thousand gross a month?. A retired guy might can. Question is......Can you sell 40 hrs of Pool time each day?.

Most places depend on food and drink sales to pay the bills...... You really need 1 table for ring games or "action" and take your cut of the money swapping hands on that table....

 

[strmanglr scott]

Cobra just said a lot of what I was writing.

If you serve food there is insurance on that too.

On the upside, your missing revenue, from tourneys and leagues. Possibly equipment sales.

I wouldn't do sofas. I sell furniture, you'll be throwing money down the drain, especially a coffee table. Build a 36" counter and put some stools up to it.

I think 10pm closing is a bit early.

 

[captainjko]

Cobra just said a lot of what I was writing.

If you serve food there is insurance on that too.

On the upside, your missing revenue, from tourneys and leagues. Possibly equipment sales.

I wouldn't do sofas. I sell furniture, you'll be throwing money down the drain, especially a coffee table. Build a 36" counter and put some stools up to it.

I think 10pm closing is a bit early.

Agree... You need to be open as long as the money is in the house.....

 

[strmanglr scott]

Agree... You need to be open as long as the money is in the house.....

That's how our hall always operated. As long as ppl were there, it stayed open.

 

[jazznpool]

I've seen warehouse space rooms since 1969. Not new.

 

[spktur]

The reason you rarely ever see an old timey pool room is because they don't work they go broke. The food and drink is what supports the business. The local room here has 20 tables and is very successful but table rent is less than 15% of the business.

 

[336Robin]

Not every cost included

I put this up just as an example to show just a little closer of what actual cost are.

You can sell or not sell a lot of things, make all kinds of little changes here and there but the truth of the matter you can make it, without alcohol but youre going to be working a lot because you really cant trust help unless its your brother or a retired buddy who does it more for a hangout place.

Pool can make it on its own but it has to seek the appropriate venue then you had better keep the place clean, neat and no extranneous crap going on that deters customers, etc.

I think this might be a business for some retired guys to do maybe a lot of them everyone have a night they work the pool room or something like that because the money just isnt the biggest concern. It could be a part time business for several owners who want have something part time to do. I think thats the best scenario. If you get trouble in you say ok closing time and you close up or run folks out. You take the profits every month and divide it up amongst the owners and call it a part time gig.

This is a vision I had years ago sort of a community place/hangout where kids might even can do homework, see community college posters, military sign up posters a community outreach sort of place with a decent reputation. Where a Dad can bring his kid into hit a few in the evening without thugs in the room.

Pool Leagues really have no place here. People need to be paying pool time.

Tournaments arent a thing much either. They dont sell food much, the place relys on table time. You can run the occasional tournament but I think maybe a progressive one where the people involved sign up for a competition and everyone pays table time and you give out trophys, ribbons or the list goes on the wall.

The key in this place and every other place I think has a chance is used equipment, taken care of reasonable table time, and no giveaways.

No tournaments like we think of them, no leagues unless they pay table time for their match. Businesses have to make money. If you keep a neat clean place with a set of rules and no destroying tables, no loud noise or raising hell in there. You might be surprised that you might get to where you sell 40 hrs a day but thats a lot of business in my opinion but retired guys need something to do. You might sell them a pool package to control their costs. Especially when I see the pool league crowd come in once a week for pool league which is free and thats it. It would be easier to market to other people and get them interested than to try and get some of the current pool demographic to pay something to play pool.

Something like this done in conjunction with a senior citizens center and marketed to all of the seniors in the area might get some business during the day. Just my opinions though.....40 hrs of pool time a day.....thats a lot of pool being played compared to what Ive seen in this sized town used for this example.

If the future of Pool is kids, then the Alcohol goes in direct opposition of that. Parents dont want their kids hanging out at a place that serves Alcohol. They want to know their kids are being supervised and they want to hear from you if they act up.