A friend is opening a pool hall with 3 - 9 footers, a 7' bar box he owns & 3 rented 7' bar boxes. He plans on some video games, candy & sandwiches, but no alcohol. This is in a town of 6,000 & a community of 30,000. CAN HE MAKE IT WITHOUT BOOZ?...JER
Pool Room Without Alcohol
- Thread starter BLACKHEARTCUES
- Start date
pat on the back!!
We've had friends who ran pool halls with no alcohol and one who also ran a pool hall with no smoking, which was primarily a youth hang out. All of the places worked very hard to keep the danger and problems down and the enjoyment factor up. The places were some of our favorites. The problem is that you lose so much of the crowds you need and it's just really hard to keep a place like that open. It wasn't long before they had to add gambling or alcohol to keep the places open. We heard the gambling actually shut one of the places down and helped keep another one open. Games helped keep all the places open longer, I believe. We noticed some of them kept adding more games and taking out more pool tables. If your friend has a large youth and/or Christian group who will frequent the place and he doesn't charge so much that everyone goes elsewhere, he just might make it. I think location means a lot, too.
Pat him on the back for me. I really enjoy those places. To me, it says they have some scruples and I think pool needs more of that kind of image, if it's going to cut the mustard with more folks. It took forever for folks to realize these places existed, so tell your friend he may have to work hard on the advertising.
Tell your friend Good Luck!
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
We've had friends who ran pool halls with no alcohol and one who also ran a pool hall with no smoking, which was primarily a youth hang out. All of the places worked very hard to keep the danger and problems down and the enjoyment factor up. The places were some of our favorites. The problem is that you lose so much of the crowds you need and it's just really hard to keep a place like that open. It wasn't long before they had to add gambling or alcohol to keep the places open. We heard the gambling actually shut one of the places down and helped keep another one open. Games helped keep all the places open longer, I believe. We noticed some of them kept adding more games and taking out more pool tables. If your friend has a large youth and/or Christian group who will frequent the place and he doesn't charge so much that everyone goes elsewhere, he just might make it. I think location means a lot, too.
Pat him on the back for me. I really enjoy those places. To me, it says they have some scruples and I think pool needs more of that kind of image, if it's going to cut the mustard with more folks. It took forever for folks to realize these places existed, so tell your friend he may have to work hard on the advertising.
Tell your friend Good Luck!
Jer, you are a very direct individual and a pretty smart guy. I think you already know the answer is no. Now this sounds pessimistic to most reading this but see if you still feel the same after just these few stats.
Even WITH alcohol, a pool room will pull the majority of it's customer base from only about a five mile radius. Of those 6000 in his town, he'll only enjoy the company of about 5% according to industry statistical standards. That's approximately 300 people. Now we all know that those 300 won't play every day, not even every month.
If he is planning on having 7 tables, video games ( Virtually NO revenue any more since home systems have taken over), a snack area/counter, rest room(s), etc., I would have to guess his space would be at least 2500-3000 square feet. At least. At a modest figure of say $10.00 per SF his annual costs for just rent would be $30,000.00. Utilities have to be paid. Air conditioning is one of the biggest income guzzlers. Payroll is another unless he is going to work every day including holidays when the pool rooms can be very busy. it costs to recover tables, advertising, etc., etc.
There are a lot of unanswered questions here but running a pool room is harder than it looks. If he can cut his costs down on some of the guesstimations I made above, he may have a chance to rough it. It won't be no picnic with only 6000 people in town. Therein lies his problem.
Gene
Even WITH alcohol, a pool room will pull the majority of it's customer base from only about a five mile radius. Of those 6000 in his town, he'll only enjoy the company of about 5% according to industry statistical standards. That's approximately 300 people. Now we all know that those 300 won't play every day, not even every month.
If he is planning on having 7 tables, video games ( Virtually NO revenue any more since home systems have taken over), a snack area/counter, rest room(s), etc., I would have to guess his space would be at least 2500-3000 square feet. At least. At a modest figure of say $10.00 per SF his annual costs for just rent would be $30,000.00. Utilities have to be paid. Air conditioning is one of the biggest income guzzlers. Payroll is another unless he is going to work every day including holidays when the pool rooms can be very busy. it costs to recover tables, advertising, etc., etc.
There are a lot of unanswered questions here but running a pool room is harder than it looks. If he can cut his costs down on some of the guesstimations I made above, he may have a chance to rough it. It won't be no picnic with only 6000 people in town. Therein lies his problem.
Gene
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Hello Jer, I opened a pool room 3 years ago in Washington state. When I opened my room I did not serve alcohol or allow smoking even though it was allowed locally. Approximately one year after I opened my pool room the State started a State wide smoking ban, which did not affect me right or left, because I had already begun building a customer based that either excepted things or did not smoke in the first place.
One year and a half later I did add beer to my establishment, not because of a loss of business, but because of all the pool teams that had chosen to play for my room. I had 6 APA and 5 BCA teams by this time and the league players like to have a beer during play. In Washington State, they have a license where you can serve beer, but no other form of alcohol. This way the room also has no age limit, so I did not lose the business from under aged members of the community, which today can be a decent income, with a little adult supervision!!!!!
Since I have added beer to room, I have kept things rather restricted to only customers who come in for pool. I do not serve people who come in unless they are making a purchase from the pro-shop or renting a table. This prevents the Bar crowd and the homeless from frequenting my establishment which would present an image that is not part of the theme of my place. It also helps keep things under control, since I opened my room I have had no Gang related problem's or fights of any kind, this has been due to my hands on approach and my no bullsh!t upfront rules. Kids today have no problem following rules as long as they treated with respect, and the same rules apply to everyone who enters the establishment.
In a word yes I think it can work, however, I would be very concerned about leasing tables. From my experience the companies people lease from do not take good care of their equipment. These same companies are not really to concerned as long as money continues to go into the tables. Also the owner of the room also has to pay close attention to the cut they receive from the proceeds, many times the company's suppling equipment will try to given percentages based on usage not the total take. When I first opened my room, I allowed a company to put in an ATM, Juke Box, and some counter top Video Games. Being new to the business, I was taken advantage of, however, I learned real quick that owning the equipment is the only real way to make money from it and to have control of how it is taken care of.
One thing I will add, for small pool room to make it they must offer the following:
1. Excellent Equipment, good tables, that well taken care of, clean pool balls, and decent house cues that are also well maintained.
2 A well stocked Pro-shop with competitive prices is also a must. This should include a full line of accessories, that includes chalk, and Red circle cue balls. The room should also offer cues for sale, this can be a very profitable investment if handled properly managed by someone who knows cues.
3. The room should also offer full cue repair, and minor repairs such as tips, while the customers waits. Jer you know as well as I do that there is allot of income in repair work and this alone can help him make the nut on a monthly basis.
4. Pool Leagues, they are also a must for a small pool rooms. Many people make the mistake and think that tournaments will bring people in and this will create income this is not really true. First many of the people that are attracted will not frequent your room except for tournaments, and even then they will not spend any money they can avoid spending. Pool leagues on the other hand will bring in people who will buy things, get repair work done, and frequent the pool room if the place has a safe clean environment and good equipment. In fact these same people will also bring their children in to play which will make additional income for the room. These people are where a great deal of income can come from if they are treated like they are important and above all fairly.
I wish your friend well, this is a funny business, and to make it takes allot more than renting tables, and not everyone is up to the challenge, but if you spend the necessary time the rewards can also be very fulfilling and great.
Have a good night
One factor to consider is whether there is another room in town (competition) and if so what do they offer. This is not to say a new room without alkyhol won't make it but in the face of competition the business should ask the question of what it can offer that the competition does not.
On "renting?" tables I presume an amusement operator will provide the equipment. In most of the country the split is 50-50 on quarters. Some operators take excellent care of their equipment and provide prompt service when needed - of course some don't.
On "renting?" tables I presume an amusement operator will provide the equipment. In most of the country the split is 50-50 on quarters. Some operators take excellent care of their equipment and provide prompt service when needed - of course some don't.
I still hold to the fact that you cannot afford to ignore the lack of potential customers in this proposed room's area. In a town or city of 50,000 or more, I would agree with Manwon's business model. It is a good one providing the population numbers are up.
The tables can be clean, a mega Pro shop, you can have the hottest video games, the best sandwiches, plasma TV's all over the place and TOPLESS RACK GIRLS. But, without enough available customers, you're spitting in the wind.
Well, on second thought, the TOPLESS RACK GIRLS might help.
Seriously though...I owned a room for 15 years that just closed in January of this year. I won't say I did everything right, but if you look back at Manwon's description of a type of pool room that stands a good chance of surviving, almost all of those components could be found in my room. We were considered, the best in our area for years, but what has not been mentioned is the drought rooms are going through. That's a whole other chapter though.
I just don't see it although I sincerely wish him the best should he decide to move forward. I would love to see him succeed.
Gene
The tables can be clean, a mega Pro shop, you can have the hottest video games, the best sandwiches, plasma TV's all over the place and TOPLESS RACK GIRLS. But, without enough available customers, you're spitting in the wind.
Well, on second thought, the TOPLESS RACK GIRLS might help.
Seriously though...I owned a room for 15 years that just closed in January of this year. I won't say I did everything right, but if you look back at Manwon's description of a type of pool room that stands a good chance of surviving, almost all of those components could be found in my room. We were considered, the best in our area for years, but what has not been mentioned is the drought rooms are going through. That's a whole other chapter though.
I just don't see it although I sincerely wish him the best should he decide to move forward. I would love to see him succeed.
Gene
my 2 cents worth
I would be terrified to open a pool room right now with pool declining in popularity.
But overall, diversification is the key. With every decision you are attacting "certain types" of customers....AND you are driving away other "types" of customers. You always have to be aware of both sides. What are your demographics in terms of age, education, music taste, smoking preferences, drinking preferences, all of that. A lot will be hit and miss. Just a long learning curve that is always evolving. Good luck with your new room and keep us all informed.
I would be terrified to open a pool room right now with pool declining in popularity.
But overall, diversification is the key. With every decision you are attacting "certain types" of customers....AND you are driving away other "types" of customers. You always have to be aware of both sides. What are your demographics in terms of age, education, music taste, smoking preferences, drinking preferences, all of that. A lot will be hit and miss. Just a long learning curve that is always evolving. Good luck with your new room and keep us all informed.
As a billiard mechanic - the pool halls, in southern CA anyways, that I see thriving are offering upscale interiors and a great kitchen. but all these places serve beer.
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
The community I live in has one room. 9 9' GC and 1 new diamond. There are some video games, juke box, food & snacks. But no alcohol.
Population for the town is about 5000-6000 and about 15k - 20k for what we term as "the valley" community.
He's doing alright, could be better, but I don't think he's in any danger of closing any time soon.
In my opinion, NO...there's not enough pool tables to generate the income needed to support the overhead already mentioned. Not even at the national average of 5 hours per day per table...even if he was charging $10 per hour per table...unless he owns the building and works it by himself...it's break even at best.BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Glen
I Don't Think So
IMHO, I don't think you can make enough money to survive without selling alcohol.
Chicatti's lasted here in B'Ham for a few years serving pizza and pop with a large room and hosted some of the best tournaments in the Northwest but, eventually they closed there doors.
Kendrick's has been open here for about 3 years but, the room is for sale; they started offering beer and wine this past year which undoubtedly has helped their business; however, IMO they are struggling at best.
B'Ham is a college town which is helpful for this type of operation. Our population is approaching 100k.
If you ask me, you need to be serving alcohol, beer and wine (it's essential) to round out your revenue base
IMHO, I don't think you can make enough money to survive without selling alcohol.
Chicatti's lasted here in B'Ham for a few years serving pizza and pop with a large room and hosted some of the best tournaments in the Northwest but, eventually they closed there doors.
Kendrick's has been open here for about 3 years but, the room is for sale; they started offering beer and wine this past year which undoubtedly has helped their business; however, IMO they are struggling at best.
B'Ham is a college town which is helpful for this type of operation. Our population is approaching 100k.
If you ask me, you need to be serving alcohol, beer and wine (it's essential) to round out your revenue base