Pool Secrets NOT revealed...(has this ever happened to you?)

Pathetic Shark said:
Lol at the microwave curry stroke. We've all been there :embarrassed2:

I think people confuse 'secrets' with 'technique'. Technique can be taught and learned, but it can developed naturally too, through practice. How quickly and naturally your technique improves is down to natural ability. Those that need to be told to do something as elementary as keeping their head still are going to need all the instruction they can get, and should be grateful for it.
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To be fair, even very advanced players have things creep into their technique that they're not aware of...it's always helpful to have someone point out that you're raising up or twisting or whatever...I had a kid tell me (I've been playing since his father was in middle school) that I was jumping up on my shot...I really had no idea (it was very subtle), and immediately squared that away. I was glad for the assist. As for technique, I learned most of the cool stuff from road players I donated to back in my weak gambling days. I'd see their CB do something that I couldn't pull off, then I'd ask...or I'd get them to show me how to measure two rail kicks, whatever. They almost always obliged me and taught me the method.
 
Well CurvedCue, I don't know why you let your feathers get all ruffled. Sounds to me like, for that moment anyway, you were not keeping your head down. If you already know that you should, great. This maybe is a positive thing for you - a warning. Perhaps you are not keeping your head down nearly as much as you think you are. It happens to us all.

I saw a post match interview with Mike Sigel. He had been going through a bad spell, but then got it straightened out. In the interview, he commented that he became aware that he was doing something bad with his stroke. He called himself stupid. Then said after fixing it, he was then back in form. We are all human. One of our fallibilities is that sometimes we are simply not aware of our selves. This means that even the best can get screwed up sometimes, let alone you and me.

Without knowing your game, I think you may need to consider this advice as golden.

Fatz
 
Pre-Flag Master said:
Well CurvedCue, I don't know why you let your feathers get all ruffled. Sounds to me like, for that moment anyway, you were not keeping your head down. If you already know that you should, great. This maybe is a positive thing for you - a warning. Perhaps you are not keeping your head down nearly as much as you think you are. It happens to us all.

I saw a post match interview with Mike Sigel. He had been going through a bad spell, but then got it straightened out. In the interview, he commented that he became aware that he was doing something bad with his stroke. He called himself stupid. Then said after fixing it, he was then back in form. We are all human. One of our fallibilities is that sometimes we are simply not aware of our selves. This means that even the best can get screwed up sometimes, let alone you and me.

Without knowing your game, I think you may need to consider this advice as golden.

Fatz
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To build on this, you were expecting to hear about crazy shots and extreme englishes, but if you're lifting your head, you're trying to "eat your dessert before your soup," another Willie Hoppe gem. Read "Billiards as it should be played" and your game will get A LOT better if you can humble yourself to the fact that you suck.
 
Here's the problem

I don't think there are too many good players, especially that have been around awhile, that aren't aware that pool ain't what it used to be, and needs help. I am an old geezer thats played for 50+ yrs and like all the guys I hang around with, I lament whats happened to pool and yearn for the good old days. I would love to see oodles of young players once again taking up pool and learning to play.

Feeling this way causes me, from time to time, to want to help newbies if I can.

The problem is more often than not, the guy I want to help improve his game, turns out to be just like the OP here, nonreceptive, defensive, or just knows more than I do (in his mind).

The OP should work on the advice he got and hope he can demonstrate improvement that his would be mentor will notice, and decide that this is not a waste of my time. Perhaps I can help him further.
 
naji said:
... Plus like Dr, Dave and others say the tip stays in touch with CB fraction of a second, so even if you lift your head it wont matter.
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I sure hope I never said or wrote anything as ridiculous as this.

I am certainly a firm believer in keeping your head and body (and even the shoulder and elbow) as still as possible during and after a stroke. It is true that nothing you do after the CB is gone can have a direct effect on the CB; but what you do after the hit (during the follow through) can influence and indirectly affect what you do before the hit, which does matter. Also, if your timing varies from one shot to the next, what you usually do after the hit might actually happen before the hit at times ... and this would definitely affect the shot directly.

You sure seem to misquote me a lot. :frown:

Regards,
Dave
 
Well there are different ways to look at this. First off the OP didn't ask for advice. It was given to him. That is a little different. I know a few really good shooters and from my experience. They don't really want to give FREE advice. Even though I see some of them every week and we hang out and talk about life. When it comes to pool. They act like I am this good because I put the time in. Sure some of that is very true. Sure some got help along the way. Sure some is just natural ability. Me I am an average player in respect from lowest to pro. I love to help players but find most players at any level are who they are. They may get slightly better through playing more but as far as taking a big jump in skill level most of us don't. Take a 6 or 7 in 9 ball APA. They probably have been the same level for 20 years and could still improve on their own game but look down on 2-4 who never improve.
 
I know it doesn't seem like ancient chinese secret, and a very minor thing, but the fact that he came from across the room
to point it out means that you are very obvious about not keeping your head still.
In fact you might actually be jumping up pretty blatantly.

One bit of advice you'll hear over and over from instructors, some pros, and AZ is:
video yourself.

I bet if you do, you'll say "holy shit, no wonder the guy said something. I gotta fix this."
 
CreeDo said:
I know it doesn't seem like ancient chinese secret, and a very minor thing, but the fact that he came from across the room
to point it out means that you are very obvious about not keeping your head still.
In fact you might actually be jumping up pretty blatantly.

One bit of advice you'll hear over and over from instructors, some pros, and AZ is:
video yourself.

I bet if you do, you'll say "holy shit, no wonder the guy said something. I gotta fix this."
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Great advice...I did this a while back, and caught some critical things I needed to fix that I would never have thought of had I not seen it in video. I did it not because I thought I needed to fix anything, I was just trying to capture a match with the Ghost...but I quickly saw the real benefit of video!
 
CreeDo said:
I know it doesn't seem like ancient chinese secret, and a very minor thing, but the fact that he came from across the room
to point it out means that you are very obvious about not keeping your head still.
In fact you might actually be jumping up pretty blatantly.

One bit of advice you'll hear over and over from instructors, some pros, and AZ is:
video yourself.

I bet if you do, you'll say "holy shit, no wonder the guy said something. I gotta fix this."
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Great point given. Also, think about it, you may have been given more advice than you realize. You had one fundamental flaw pointed out to you. You may want to consider all your fundamentals and get those in order before you work on drills/exercises. If you don't get your basics together there won't be any "easy" shots. It appears to me that you, the OP, got a really good tip. ...take advantage of it!:smile:
 
CurvedCue said:
So I'm practicing, setting up drills and shots from a book, when one of the strongest players in my pool hall comes over and says: "Hey, let me give you some advice." Then he pauses. And I'm waiting on tenterhooks, thinking: Is he gonna tell me how to do 3-cushion kick shots? A Jump-draw? An eight-ball break that'll pocket 4 balls every time? How to calculate bank shots like a pro? How to know for certain when to shoot at 7:38 vs. 3:15 on the CB? Please God YES!

Naaah.

He has me shoot two ridiculously easy shots and says: "You need to keep your head down."

Then walks away.

Okay, we all have our bad habits. But seriously??? :rolleyes:

I mean that's like Stephen King spotting a struggling writer in a coffee shop and then coming over and saying: "Let me give you some advice." Struggling writer, wide-eyed, not even daring to swallow the Cappuccino that's scalding the inside of his mouth, waits, thinking King will tell him how to organize a plot, create riveting characters, when to use a mixed metaphor, why sometimes you have to avoid alliterations, etc, etc...

NO.

Instead..

King says: "You need to type more softly."

Then walks away.

Ok, like, if I ever become a really good player I never gonna do that. :indecisive:

PS -- I think really good players have forgotten (or perhaps never knew!) what it's like to be someone who's struggling to learn the finer points of the game. It's like their knowledge has become so instinctive that they can't communicate it, hence the best thing they can say is something like: "Don't use a warped cue." Or "Keep your head down." Or the perennial favorite: "Don't miss."

PPS -- Imagine Michael Phelps trying to teach swimming. Novice swimmer: "How do I swim like you?" Phelps: "Swim fast."

PPPS -- Lest anyone think the guy was jerking me around -- he wasn't. He was sincere about helping me out. It's just that the wide gap between where he is and where I am seems to create a language barrier. haha. ;)
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Well, he couldn't possibly have known what was going through your mind at that time. He saw something in you that jumped out at him and he felt compelled to tell you.

The whole head movement thing is an interesting topic. More often than not, head movement is a sign of other issues that need to be addressed, like you could be standing too close to the shot, or standing off-balance, or out of alignment, or like someone else posted, not following-through, looking at the pocket while stroking, or any combination of the above.

So that guy did you a favor because even though he didn't realize it, he was reminding you to review your fundamentals. Go down your checklist and make sure you're doing everything on it. If you don't have a checklist, then this would be a good time for you to create one.
 
Pidge said:
So are you saying people shouldn't be concerned with lifting their head when down on a shot? Are you high? Can I get your dealers number?

Lifting your head at any point during a shot escalates throughout the entire body. A slight movement upwards with the head means a slight movement in the shoulder, which means your whole arm moves and you don't hit the white where you intended.

If you concentrate on just keeping the head perfectly still, and you have a solid base then you will keep still during the stroke and stand a greater chance of hitting the white where you intend.

Why would the guy teach you how to jump-draw or 3 rail kick a ball when you can't keep your head still? Trying to run before you can walk comes to mind. He spotted a blatant fault with you, tried helping you out, and you log into AZB and create a thread showing how ungrateful you are. Take his advice and run with it or don't, and keep scratching your head wondering why you can't improve. Your choice buddy.
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The only reason you lift your head because you missed your eyes see it before hearing it. I tested this lifting head theory extensively it is a reaction that comes after tip leaves cb
Look for other secrets. Sorry
 
Pidge said:
Yeah exactly. Pisses me off when players, of all abilities think they're too good to take constructive criticism and sound advice.
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Whoa! I NEVER said I was too good to take advice. Quite the opposite: I need all the help I can get!

This is the problem with posts -- one's intent is not always communicated. Hence everyone is quick to assume malicious intent.

Before any further accusations of ungratefulness or having a bighead get thrown around, let me make clear my position.

Of course, I was excited that a strong player was willing to give me a tip!

It's just that what I got was so, um, anti-climatic to what I had built up in my mind.

I mean it's FUNNY! :D

If you can't see the humor then it's your problem.

Like a thousand things are going on in my head, thoughts about High-Right vs. Low-Left vs. an 8:45 hit, sliding vs. skidding over certain brands of Simonis cloth, compensating for deflection on a 3-cushion shot, etc, etc....

And I get told to keep my head down.

It's like a classic scene out of a movie where the rookie cop or reporter or whomever and armed with a notebook and a pen, having memorized books and procedurals, is told by the seasoned veteran: "My advice? When the shooting starts keep your head down."

Of course, I'm not gonna lie either. I wish I could've gleaned more than just that. Hell, who wouldn't? If you want to crucify me because I'm human and wished he could've told me something more then, again, that's your problem.

I'm just being honest here.

But I'm NOT ungrateful.

PS -- I worried after posting that it would be misinterpreted and get these kind of responses. It seems this forum often degenerates into a lot of finger-pointing and name-calling. :(

PPS -- If anyone wants to PM me for clarification please do so. I'm happy to converse with whomever. I just don't like summary executions.
 
Write more.

CurvedCue said:
So I'm practicing, setting up drills and shots from a book, when one of the strongest players in my pool hall comes over and says: "Hey, let me give you some advice." Then he pauses. And I'm waiting on tenterhooks, thinking: Is he gonna tell me how to do 3-cushion kick shots? A Jump-draw? An eight-ball break that'll pocket 4 balls every time? How to calculate bank shots like a pro? How to know for certain when to shoot at 7:38 vs. 3:15 on the CB? Please God YES!

Naaah.

He has me shoot two ridiculously easy shots and says: "You need to keep your head down."

Then walks away.

Okay, we all have our bad habits. But seriously??? :rolleyes:

I mean that's like Stephen King spotting a struggling writer in a coffee shop and then coming over and saying: "Let me give you some advice." Struggling writer, wide-eyed, not even daring to swallow the Cappuccino that's scalding the inside of his mouth, waits, thinking King will tell him how to organize a plot, create riveting characters, when to use a mixed metaphor, why sometimes you have to avoid alliterations, etc, etc...

NO.

Instead..

King says: "You need to type more softly."

Then walks away.

Ok, like, if I ever become a really good player I never gonna do that. :indecisive:

PS -- I think really good players have forgotten (or perhaps never knew!) what it's like to be someone who's struggling to learn the finer points of the game. It's like their knowledge has become so instinctive that they can't communicate it, hence the best thing they can say is something like: "Don't use a warped cue." Or "Keep your head down." Or the perennial favorite: "Don't miss."

PPS -- Imagine Michael Phelps trying to teach swimming. Novice swimmer: "How do I swim like you?" Phelps: "Swim fast."

PPPS -- Lest anyone think the guy was jerking me around -- he wasn't. He was sincere about helping me out. It's just that the wide gap between where he is and where I am seems to create a language barrier. haha. ;)
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I love the way you write and think.

That being said, "Once you are lined up on your shot, don't move your head, even a tiny bit, when you're shooting a shot." :D
 
336Robin said:
Yeah pool players a lot of time cant tell you how they do what they do and its frustrating to people who want to improve their games.
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Thanks, Robin. This is what I meant.

In fact, at first, I thought the guy was messing with me, because he was so cavalier about it. I got red-faced thinking the whole pool hall was watching and laughing: "Look at that idiot. He thinks he's gonna get some serious knowledge." But then I realized the guy was sincere. It was just his way of communicating.
 
CurvedCue said:
Whoa! I NEVER said I was too good to take advice. Quite the opposite: I need all the help I can get!

This is the problem with posts -- one's intent is not always communicated. Hence everyone is quick to assume malicious intent.

Before any further accusations of ungratefulness or having a bighead get thrown around, let me make clear my position.

Of course, I was excited that a strong player was willing to give me a tip!

It's just that what I got was so, um, anti-climatic to what I had built up in my mind.

I mean it's FUNNY! :D

If you can't see the humor then it's your problem.

Like a thousand things are going on in my head, thoughts about High-Right vs. Low-Left vs. an 8:45 hit, sliding vs. skidding over certain brands of Simonis cloth, compensating for deflection on a 3-cushion shot, etc, etc....

And I get told to keep my head down.

It's like a classic scene out of a movie where the rookie cop or reporter or whomever and armed with a notebook and a pen, having memorized books and procedurals, is told by the seasoned veteran: "My advice? When the shooting starts keep your head down."

Of course, I'm not gonna lie either. I wish I could've gleaned more than just that. Hell, who wouldn't? If you want to crucify me because I'm human and wished he could've told me something more then, again, that's your problem.

I'm just being honest here.

But I'm NOT ungrateful.

PS -- I worried after posting that it would be misinterpreted and get these kind of responses. It seems this forum often degenerates into a lot of finger-pointing and name-calling. :(

PPS -- If anyone wants to PM me for clarification please do so. I'm happy to converse with whomever. I just don't like summary executions.
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Instead of looking for someone to hand you the brass ring, look for the steps that will lead you to it yourself. You will get much more satisfaction that way. In case you still don't realize it, he pointed out one of the steps to you.;)
 
Kim Davenport helped me out once by giving me this same advice, but instead of being disappointed - I took it to heart. I went from a huge slump to suddenly playing the best pool of my life just from something simple like keeping my head down. It was the only thing I focused on while down on the shot and suddenly the racks just seemed incredibly easy.

That week I won 2 matches in the JA Classic Pro Event (including a "near win" against Thorstenn Hohmann 2-9 ;) ) The next week I finished top 3 in the TAP National 8 and 9 ball singles brackets and the following week I was runner up at US Amateur.

Tell that fella thanks and keep your head down!
 
New York Blackie, a famous road player once told me a "SECRET". He said, "You gotta hit it good.".

JoeyA
 
Yep...

naji said:
The only reason you lift your head because you missed your eyes see it before hearing it. I tested this lifting head theory extensively it is a reaction that comes after tip leaves cb
Look for other secrets. Sorry
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Even if that's true, that's also why it's important to think about keeping your head down before you shoot.

It provides your subconscious motivation to make the shot....

Here's a secret most either don't know or won't tell.

When using angle in angle out on banks and kicks, it is important to first aim through the balls contact point and then parallel shift to center ball to find the right aim line, because different angles produce varying amounts of adjustment for where the ball will contact the rail in relation to the angle it's approaching the rail.

That contact point will ALWAYS be on the part of the ball that will contact the rail that is parallel to that rail.

This is especially important when going rail first on balls close to the rail when trying to use it for different position or to avoid a ball in the way.

There will always be some feel involved in banks because of speed and spin variances, but this gives you the best starting point.

Also you have to widen most shots on red label diamonds because they don't bank true.

Jaden
 
CurvedCue said:
So I'm practicing, setting up drills and shots from a book, when one of the strongest players in my pool hall comes over and says: "Hey, let me give you some advice." Then he pauses. And I'm waiting on tenterhooks, thinking: Is he gonna tell me how to do 3-cushion kick shots? A Jump-draw? An eight-ball break that'll pocket 4 balls every time? How to calculate bank shots like a pro? How to know for certain when to shoot at 7:38 vs. 3:15 on the CB? Please God YES!

Naaah.

He has me shoot two ridiculously easy shots and says: "You need to keep your head down."

Then walks away.

Okay, we all have our bad habits. But seriously??? :rolleyes:

I mean that's like Stephen King spotting a struggling writer in a coffee shop and then coming over and saying: "Let me give you some advice." Struggling writer, wide-eyed, not even daring to swallow the Cappuccino that's scalding the inside of his mouth, waits, thinking King will tell him how to organize a plot, create riveting characters, when to use a mixed metaphor, why sometimes you have to avoid alliterations, etc, etc...

NO.

Instead..

King says: "You need to type more softly."

Then walks away.

Ok, like, if I ever become a really good player I never gonna do that. :indecisive:

PS -- I think really good players have forgotten (or perhaps never knew!) what it's like to be someone who's struggling to learn the finer points of the game. It's like their knowledge has become so instinctive that they can't communicate it, hence the best thing they can say is something like: "Don't use a warped cue." Or "Keep your head down." Or the perennial favorite: "Don't miss."

PPS -- Imagine Michael Phelps trying to teach swimming. Novice swimmer: "How do I swim like you?" Phelps: "Swim fast."

PPPS -- Lest anyone think the guy was jerking me around -- he wasn't. He was sincere about helping me out. It's just that the wide gap between where he is and where I am seems to create a language barrier. haha. ;)
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Sounds to me like you need to work on keeping your head down. The difference between weak and great players is primarily the better player can hit the cue ball where they want reliably and at the speed they want. When you can do that then you can play the rest of the game.

I have taken lessons from all of tyhe big name teachers Bresieth,Wilson, Lee, Shuffett just to mention a few they all teach the same thing he who controls the tip controls the game.

Try this take all of the balls to one end of the table. Set them up one att a time in the same place on the head string. Shoot the ball into the fact corner pocket. While doing this step back between shots, focus on your stance and bridge, your stroke your tip at adress, feel your backswing and transition stroke freeze check your tip location at finish before you get up.

Stay down, Keep your head down, Check your fundamentals on each ball. Do this 15, 30, 45 times more as you get better. You might say why do this why not use a cue ball.

Because you are distracted by making balls when you add a a cue ball to the mix. Break the game down into small piecec. Pay attention. When you do this you will notice little things you do or dont do on shots. The best players take out all of the extra stuff.

There is no secret just hard work required. When you see a champ running out like water looking so effortless, believe me they are working and relying on lots of past work.

Good luck play hard

JoeyA said:
New York Blackie, a famous road player once told me a "SECRET". He said, "You gotta hit it good.".

JoeyA
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Now we know who has all the secrets
 
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