Pool Should Be An Olympic Sport!

ribdoner said:
I'll Guarenteeeee the male figure skaters play a lot of one hole:eek: :eek:
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Back pocket 2 ball is the game. They warm up by putting brokeback mountain on and discussing window treatments and throw pillows.
 
Personally, I do not consider pool a sport. It is an activity, like chess. To me, in order for something to be a sport, participants MUST be in top physical and mental condition in order to compete at the top levels. "Professional" pool players need not be in top physical condition. They are generally better served learning their Physics and Trigonometry than they are trying to shave an extra fifteen seconds off their daily five mile runs.

Don't get me wrong, I would much rather play pool than most sports recognized by the Olympics, but I don't think pool would be a suitable addition to the Olympics.

Just my opinion.
 
Colin Colenso said:
Blackjack said:
Here is the history of the trials and tribulations of getting the sport into the Olympics. It has been a full time job for many people that are determined to make this a reality. This from the WCBS web site. As usual Colin, you are misinformed

Misinformed about what Blackjack?

Why don't you tell me exactly what point I made that you disagree with.

I have read the WCBS history before.

I spent many years as a Track & Field athlete watching and learning the way the Olympics is set up.

2 years ago I wrote a 120 page booklet on Olympic Sports for Chinese Sporting Organizations to learn the sports and the structure of the organization.

Just name me an Olympic sport that has thrived after it's inception into the Olympics. I'll name you dozens that have stagnated.

That there is the point that you won't fess up to!

Colin
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I'll break down your original message.

I'm pretty convinced that the worst thing that could happen for pool would be for it to become an Olympic sport.

Not true.

Which if any sports that began in the Olympics and later thrived into a broad and popular sport with regular high end competitions, a tour of professionals making money anywhere close to the golf, tennis, baseball, NFL, Nascar, F1 etc.

These sports have the advantage of having established their popularity without inclusion into the Olympic Games. Hockey on all levels increased its popularity in the US after the US team won an Olympic gold medal at Lake Placid in 1980. Curling is going through a major growth spurt this Olympic season. Figure skating has used the Olympics as a platform to produce major stars and showcase their talents for decades.

If pool was in the Olympics now, the IPT may never have got off the ground. The WPA's monopoly role would have been strengthened through government grants worldwide and an international network of bureaucrats overseeing it, far exceeding what is in place today. They could ban players from all rival tours, same as the IAAF has in Track and Field.

This statement is completely false and misleading. The WPA does not govern ANYTHING as far as the IOC plan is concerned. The WPA is the World Organization representative for Pool and Snooker. They do not mandate or create rules. That is left to organizations such as IWGA, WADA, ARISF, GAISF and the the IOC. Money's would be used to set up training centers in each of the represented affiliates organizations, complete with national coaching staff aimed at bettering the quality of play of all participants. To be accepted into inclusion, all sports must meet requirements set forth by all of the above mentioned organizations, including WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) - any sport organization that refuses to adhere to the rules of one or more of these IOC regulated agencies will be excluded to maintan the integrity of the sport. You may see that as political, but EVERY Olympic sport adheres to the same exact guidelines and they do it without being crybabies.

Also, if pool was in the olympics, you'd be lucky to get 10 minutes TV coverage during the Summer Olympic games...and once every 4 years and then the players would be forgotten.

10 minutes is better than what we have now. This is a process that will take time. All the cards are in place, and we are awaiting inclusion. Your prognostication is way off base, and it can be avoided if EVERYBODY gets involved in promoting the game of pool instead of chasing dollar signs. The struggle will be well worth it in the end.

The World Confederation of Billiard Sports which oversees the WPA would become greatly empowered. This centralization of a sport, which would greatly reduce open competition for independent promoters, is not a good model for any sport imho.

They will be empowered? Why shouldn't they be? They are the only Organization that is recognized by all of the organizations I just mentioned including the IOC. That took a lot of hard work, determination, red tape, cooperation with international bodies of all 3 sectors of our sport. I've done my part, have you done yours? Its very simple to sit back and thumb your nose up and walk away with the IPT money while you criticize things you have very little knowledge of. John Lewis and Steve Ducoff are the representatives from my country that are currently in contact with the WPA and the WCBS. They have positions on both Boards. That is where I choose to get my information on the Global advancement of our sport, not Kevin Trudeau. Quick fixes won't work, Colin. Growth is a process - it needs to be lived, it needs to be earned, not bought.

Your original statement was way off base and misinformed. Saying that the WPA has power in the IOC is like saying the governor of North Dakota has power in the United Nations. Its silly and not true. Each organization has delegates that comprise the WCBS Board of Directors which is led by Jorgen Sandman at present. Ian Anderson is the current President of the WPA, and he has done a great job in that position. He is a fine leader and a man of his word, and he cares about the sport.

KT would not work with these organizations because he would have to give up the reigns. He refuses to do that. I can understand that its his tour and his money and he can do as he wishes, but anything he does to damage the existing organizations will set the sport back - and ultimately be counterproductive to the mission of the WCBS and its members.
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Is pool a sport? Of course it is. It's an indoor recreational sport.
Should pool be in the Olympics? Of course it should. It's a sport.
How and when should pool be put in the Olympics? THIS is the real question, and I don't just mean for the Olympic officialdom. As Colin mentioned many olympic sports have stagnated as a result of being "classed" as olympic and therefore amature in nature.


The best thing for pool would be to strengthen it's professional and amature base on it's own (much like what is happening now with IPT,WPA,APA etc.) and THEN get the sport in the Olympics. Imagine if instead of basketball being made popular through the NBA and NCAA it had become an olympic sport first. It would likely have stagnated as an amature competition. Same goes for hockey. Under different circumstances they could have ended up like track and field.


True pool has been around for a long time but it hasn't established and solidified it's professional base enough yet. Few "pros" can actually make a real living playing pool currently. The IPT and a few others are working to change that and when they succeed you can bank on it....pool will become an Olympic sport.

Terry
 
DaveK said:
OK, time to weigh in on this with a few comments.

1 Whyfor nobody defend javelin ? Spear chucking has been popular for quite a while for a variety of reasons, and it doesn't take a huge mass to be competitive (speaking of which, Colin should stick to pool and step away from the hammer).

2 Last week, while lounging by the pool in 90 degree heat at a resort hotel in Anaheim CA, I read some sports editorials (I use the term loosely) in the O.C. Register about winter sports. I found it funny how this fellow from southern California had similar views of some sports like curling and luge. He must have a good seat in front of his TV to get so much experience in these matters.

3 Curlers have an understanding of colliding round things just like pool players (um ... I'm speaking of pool balls, not players heads folks). There are similarities between these two games which share caroms, combinations, and other tactics, although it is truly rare to see a curler 'go vertical' as is so popular in pool these days. To illustrate an outrageous shot I saw a few years ago, please refer to the WEI below. The shot was two sequential caroms to cause an unwanted stone (analogous to the 9 ball in my example) to be removed 'backwards' (ie back up the ice, opposite to the direction of the shots). I've shown the same path as a two ball carom, off the 1 then off the 2 to play the 9 in the side. They planned and executed this shot ... amazing !

4 Most good pro curlers make more money than most good pro pool players (and get on TV much more often as well, at least here in Canada). The IPT will change this economic picture if it comes off as planned (and poolplayers should be seen more on commercials ... er.... "TV Shows"), but over the last bunch of years there have been quite a few teams whose members (each) won between $50K and $100K. Of course they have a pretty busy 3 months to make all this money, but what else are you going to do when it's so frickin cold and snowy outside ? Golf is a summertime pastime around here. Many good curlers are also good golfers, they have lots of time to practice.

5 No curlers skip out on tournament action to play golf ... for the humour impaired I'll add an oreo of sorts :D :) :D

6 I hope Judes head doesn't hurt too much this morning :)

Dave, not in Anaheim anymore ... brrrrrr
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Tap tap tap.... thanks for enlightening the ignorant on the skill involved in curling.
 
Colin Colenso said:
vagabond said:
Still, it can be dangerous to start mocking 120kg dudes who bench 400+ lbs.:p

Colin <~Now a scrawny 100kg
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Colin,
Yeah, but he sent me a PM that those Sumo wrestlers are a big bunch of pu$$ies.

Hey, Jude (always wanted to say that) - do you have life insurance???

P.S. - Jude, I couldn't possibly agree with you more. They should combine those archery and luge events - just shoot at those speedy sled-things. Now that would get the ratings up (and thin out the over-crowded luge events a little). Just a thought....well, I have a few spare hours, I think I'll go curl a few frames.
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Blackjack said:
Colin Colenso said:
I'll break down your original message.

I'm pretty convinced that the worst thing that could happen for pool would be for it to become an Olympic sport.

Not true.

Which if any sports that began in the Olympics and later thrived into a broad and popular sport with regular high end competitions, a tour of professionals making money anywhere close to the golf, tennis, baseball, NFL, Nascar, F1 etc.

These sports have the advantage of having established their popularity without inclusion into the Olympic Games. Hockey on all levels increased its popularity in the US after the US team won an Olympic gold medal at Lake Placid in 1980. Curling is going through a major growth spurt this Olympic season. Figure skating has used the Olympics as a platform to produce major stars and showcase their talents for decades.
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Small and minor contributions, despite the overall huge impact of the Olympic games. I suspect the figure skaters that do well after their olympic career, do so only because they become part of private entrepreneureal organizations that are not affiliated with the international federations. One only has to look at track & field, the most elite of the olympic sports, where only a few of the current world's best can make a decent living.

If pool was in the Olympics now, the IPT may never have got off the ground. The WPA's monopoly role would have been strengthened through government grants worldwide and an international network of bureaucrats overseeing it, far exceeding what is in place today. They could ban players from all rival tours, same as the IAAF has in Track and Field.

This statement is completely false and misleading. The WPA does not govern ANYTHING as far as the IOC plan is concerned. The WPA is the World Organization representative for Pool and Snooker.
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It is certainly NOT false as you claim. In many sports such as Track & Field and Triathlon to mention a couple that come to mind, rival tours have started offering larger rewards and athletes were threatened with being banned from the official IOC competitions if they competed.

Also, WPA only oversees Pool, not pool and snooker, the World Snooker Federation (WSF) which oversees the WPBSA and IBSF oversees Snooker and English Billiards. You've posted the structure so many times you ought to know this.

They do not mandate or create rules. That is left to organizations such as IWGA, WADA, ARISF, GAISF and the the IOC. Money's would be used to set up training centers in each of the represented affiliates organizations, complete with national coaching staff aimed at bettering the quality of play of all participants. To be accepted into inclusion, all sports must meet requirements set forth by all of the above mentioned organizations, including WADA (World Anti-Doping Agency) - any sport organization that refuses to adhere to the rules of one or more of these IOC regulated agencies will be excluded to maintan the integrity of the sport. You may see that as political, but EVERY Olympic sport adheres to the same exact guidelines and they do it without being crybabies.
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Yes, it's political thieving from tax payers. Makes me want to puke! Talk about integrity, and then use marxian policies to steal from the community to get what you want.

Also, if pool was in the olympics, you'd be lucky to get 10 minutes TV coverage during the Summer Olympic games...and once every 4 years and then the players would be forgotten.

10 minutes is better than what we have now. This is a process that will take time. All the cards are in place, and we are awaiting inclusion. Your prognostication is way off base, and it can be avoided if EVERYBODY gets involved in promoting the game of pool instead of chasing dollar signs. The struggle will be well worth it in the end.
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And 10 minutes every 4 years would be about all you'd see. That is a great less that what Matchroom has done, and they didn't need the WPA to do that, though they curently agree to go along.

What's your fear of dollar signs? It's capitalism that made your country rich. There's little worse than someone who benefits from capitalism who idolizes marxianism. You should have seen the tens of millions of street vendors under communism that died trying to make a buck satisfying consumers. Get an education on economics BJ! You are terribly naive! I recommed www.mises.org . Go there for a few months and then come back with your insights on how businesses and organizations should be developed.

The World Confederation of Billiard Sports which oversees the WPA would become greatly empowered. This centralization of a sport, which would greatly reduce open competition for independent promoters, is not a good model for any sport imho.

They will be empowered? Why shouldn't they be?
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Same reason any business shouldn't be empowered by government so as to have a monolpoly. Same reason the constitution was intended to maintain power within the states rather that let it flow towards the federal government.

They are the only Organization that is recognized by all of the organizations I just mentioned including the IOC. That took a lot of hard work, determination, red tape, cooperation with international bodies of all 3 sectors of our sport. I've done my part, have you done yours? Its very simple to sit back and thumb your nose up and walk away with the IPT money while you criticize things you have very little knowledge of. John Lewis and Steve Ducoff are the representatives from my country that are currently in contact with the WPA and the WCBS. They have positions on both Boards. That is where I choose to get my information on the Global advancement of our sport, not Kevin Trudeau. Quick fixes won't work, Colin. Growth is a process - it needs to be lived, it needs to be earned, not bought.
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The road to hell was built on good intentions as they say.

The evidence of sports stagnating because they are centrally run under an IOC banner is well know to people in the sports business industry.

You merely assume that this is the best direction for the sport. I disagree strongly and so would most who understand sports business, and who wanted a fledgling sport to grow into a major international sport with high exposure and lucrative returns.

I most certainly wouldn't contribute toward making pool part of a government - IOC complex.

Your original statement was way off base and misinformed. Saying that the WPA has power in the IOC is like saying the governor of North Dakota has power in the United Nations. Its silly and not true. Each organization has delegates that comprise the WCBS Board of Directors which is led by Jorgen Sandman at present. Ian Anderson is the current President of the WPA, and he has done a great job in that position. He is a fine leader and a man of his word, and he cares about the sport.
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You missed my point! If billiard sports gained admittance to the olympics, WPA and other branches would gain much increased power over the players. They would gain the power to ban players from competing in non-sanctioned events. This power would be created by the attractiveness of Olympic participation which they would control. Players would be much more hesitant to jump ship.

So if pool had already been in the Olympics, the incentive for KT to start up his own tour would have been significantly reduced.

KT would not work with these organizations because he would have to give up the reigns. He refuses to do that. I can understand that its his tour and his money and he can do as he wishes, but anything he does to damage the existing organizations will set the sport back - and ultimately be counterproductive to the mission of the WCBS and its members.
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I agree that it's counterproductive to the mission of the WCBS, I disagree that it will set the sport back....I applaud KT, not only for starting the tour, but for bucking the system, as I suspect it is filled with people like yourself who have a distorted view of sports business.
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Williebetmore said:
Colin Colenso said:
Colin,
Yeah, but he sent me a PM that those Sumo wrestlers are a big bunch of pu$$ies.

Hey, Jude (always wanted to say that) - do you have life insurance???

P.S. - Jude, I couldn't possibly agree with you more. They should combine those archery and luge events - just shoot at those speedy sled-things. Now that would get the ratings up (and thin out the over-crowded luge events a little). Just a thought....well, I have a few spare hours, I think I'll go curl a few frames.
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haha...and ain't those WWE wrestlers a bunch of fakes!
*hides under desk* :D

Sure, adding target shooting to the luge would bring ratings up. But it would never get the approval of the Federation Internationale De Luge De Course (FIL).:D
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Colin Colenso said:
Blackjack said:
Small and minor contributions, despite the overall huge impact of the Olympic games. I suspect the figure skaters that do well after their olympic career, do so only because they become part of private entrepreneureal organizations that are not affiliated with the international federations. One only has to look at track & field, the most elite of the olympic sports, where only a few of the current world's best can make a decent living.


It is certainly NOT false as you claim. In many sports such as Track & Field and Triathlon to mention a couple that come to mind, rival tours have started offering larger rewards and athletes were threatened with being banned from the official IOC competitions if they competed.

Also, WPA only oversees Pool, not pool and snooker, the World Snooker Federation (WSF) which oversees the WPBSA and IBSF oversees Snooker and English Billiards. You've posted the structure so many times you ought to know this.


Yes, it's political thieving from tax payers. Makes me want to puke! Talk about integrity, and then use marxian policies to steal from the community to get what you want.


And 10 minutes every 4 years would be about all you'd see. That is a great less that what Matchroom has done, and they didn't need the WPA to do that, though they curently agree to go along.

What's your fear of dollar signs? It's capitalism that made your country rich. There's little worse than someone who benefits from capitalism who idolizes marxianism. You should have seen the tens of millions of street vendors under communism that died trying to make a buck satisfying consumers. Get an education on economics BJ! You are terribly naive! I recommed www.mises.org . Go there for a few months and then come back with your insights on how businesses and organizations should be developed.


Same reason any business shouldn't be empowered by government so as to have a monolpoly. Same reason the constitution was intended to maintain power within the states rather that let it flow towards the federal government.


The road to hell was built on good intentions as they say.

The evidence of sports stagnating because they are centrally run under an IOC banner is well know to people in the sports business industry.

You merely assume that this is the best direction for the sport. I disagree strongly and so would most who understand sports business, and who wanted a fledgling sport to grow into a major international sport with high exposure and lucrative returns.

I most certainly wouldn't contribute toward making pool part of a government - IOC complex.


You missed my point! If billiard sports gained admittance to the olympics, WPA and other branches would gain much increased power over the players. They would gain the power to ban players from competing in non-sanctioned events. This power would be created by the attractiveness of Olympic participation which they would control. Players would be much more hesitant to jump ship.

So if pool had already been in the Olympics, the incentive for KT to start up his own tour would have been significantly reduced.



I agree that it's counterproductive to the mission of the WCBS, I disagree that it will set the sport back....I applaud KT, not only for starting the tour, but for bucking the system, as I suspect it is filled with people like yourself who have a distorted view of sports business.
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I just have to add that the IOC has been plagued with scandals over the last few years with everything from corruption and bribes to biased judging. Although Pool is more of a quantitative sport(results can be physically seen or measured) than a qualitative( subjective judging like in figureskating and ribbon twirling um I mean gymnastics) I think the politics involved in the olympics wouldn't have a positive influence on any of the cue sports.
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Jude Rosenstock said:
I dunno. Let's give it a shot! Make up a new rule and let's see how many of us adhere to it.
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I hereby decree that when playing pool everyone must wear togas and drink Guiness beer :D.
 
Williebetmore said:
...well, I have a few spare hours, I think I'll go curl a few frames.
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Sniker snicker snicker ...

Get with the program Willie... you curl 'ends', not frames.

I'll have all you southerners rockin' yet !

Dave, who does not curl but knows about 35000 people that do and see's it on TV all the time.
 
DaveK said:
Sniker snicker snicker ...

Get with the program Willie... you curl 'ends', not frames.

I'll have all you southerners rockin' yet !

Dave, who does not curl but knows about 35000 people that do and see's it on TV all the time.
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K-man,
Sorry, I was trying to be funny; any MORON knows that its ends (maybe I was thinking of bowling). I'm sitting here watching the Swedish women trying to beat the Swiss women in Olympic curling (not their hair). It's kind of interesting (for about 10 minutes) if you can get past the cryptic commentary and terminology. It DOES look like fun (if beer was included, or if you were in grade school). Do those women ever play in bikini's???

I'm looking forward to the inclusion of women's mud wrestling in the Olympics (or pole-dancing) - can't you guys afford any warm mud up north?????

P.S. - I know that you got it; but for all the rest of those guys with serious replies, this is the "poke some fun at the fringe sports" thread, not a serious attack on these oh-so-important pursuits. It makes us pool players feel more important, so please humor us.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Ok, I have to say I've heard it from all my non-poolplaying friends, "POOL IS NOT A SPORT AND GAMES SHOULD NOT BE IN THE OLYMPICS!!!"

Well, that's hogwash! If I watch ONE MORE MINUTE OF CURLING I might just kill myself. I don't even think curlers actually exist. I've never met one. NOBODY ON EARTH has ever admitted to me that they've ever done it. The "sport" simply is a myth.

Pool on the otherhand is played EVERYWHERE and is far more involved than scraping ice as you watch a big freakin rock slide along. If they don't make pool an Olympics sport (include baseball on that list), I might just never watch the games again.

By the way, there is no such thing as:

Bob sledding
Luge
Javalin throwing
Discus
Equestrian (C'mon, who's the athlete here? I vote for the horse!)
Archery

Nobody does any of these things EVER! None of my friends ever say, "Hey, lets go discus throwing this weekend!" I'm sick of this. I'm putting on X-Files.
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I will admit to not having read all this thread but in response to your comments. Denigrating another mans sport in no way enhances your own. You should be asking what they are doing right and what are those in pool doing wrong. It is no accident that curling has gotten a lot of TV time it is the result of a carefully laid down plan of some kind, this just doesn't happen. Curling used to be the butt of Olympic jokes and now it is really catching on, you think that just happens? It just shows the continued ineptness of the powers that be in pool, and I am not talking about pool in the Olympic but pool in general. KT hasn't changed anything, he is just paying out of his pocket for something that has in the past proven no one wants . Maybe things will change a little but the stride that curling has made should be looked at with interest not distrain.
 
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clolson said:
...and for those friends that say its not a sport, why is it on espn.....
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This also means that Spelling Bee's and Poker are sports? After all, they are on ESPN too.

George
 
George said:
This also means that Spelling Bee's and Poker are sports? After all, they are on ESPN too.

George
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Good god George! WHO IS THAT!?! WHERE DID YOU GET IT!?!:eek:
avatar161_7.jpg

Terry
 
Tbeaux said:
Good god George! WHO IS THAT!?! WHERE DID YOU GET IT!?!:eek:


Terry
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I thought it was hilarious.......I got it in an email entitled "Things that will make you say OMG"


George<----said OMG
 
Colin Colenso said:
vagabond said:
I lived and breathed Discus, Shot Put and Javelin for years. Competed in the Sydney 2000 Olympic Trials in Shot Put...I even used to be a regular on Thrower's Forums.

I still thought what Jude said was funny:D

Still, it can be dangerous to start mocking 120kg dudes who bench 400+ lbs.:p

Colin <~Now a scrawny 100kg
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Hi,
Good to know that you are a top class athlete.I did not know that you are a Aussie.I heard that Joel Younger started a night club in Gold Coast.Do u know anything about it?
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