Pool Streams. Help US Understand them

Shawn Armstrong said:
Are you daft? Seriously?

You seem to think there is one answer for "stream quality". There isn't. You see, in our industry, "quality" is subjective. Johnny may have had stream quality issues, and Accu Stats could have been to blame for one of those instances. On another occassion, it could have been network issues impairing the delivery. My response has always been that there can be a multitude of reasons for why a stream is delivered poorly. You seem to have the 100% totally correct answer.

So, to summarize...no, I'm not wrong. No, you aren't right. Your answer holds true in one particular case only. When someone like you comes along who thinks they have the correct answer that fits one hundred different scenarios, you're usually wrong. This one isn't an exception.
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This isn't complicated. The OP clearly said that AccuStats and TAR were streaming at lower qualities because of the host location. This is a very specific situation, and there was never any mention of there being any difference in quality among viewers. My answer holds true in the particular case the OP mentioned, which is all that matters here. I never once tried to say stream quality in general was always caused by the host/server.

You chimed in with an an answer that doesn't fit the situation at all, stating the most likely cause was UDP packet loss. That is not even close to being a likely cause in this situation, so it has no place here.

Your inability to admit when you're wrong is bewildering. Any normal person would have just said they read the OP's situation wrong. Instead, you are hellbent on proving what you said still stands. You have extreme insecurity and ego related issues.
 
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Skippy27 said:
Well Dave, if you are going to throw yourself into this then I suggest you do a little review of this so you don't look so stupid injecting yourself without full knowledge.

Below is his response to a post of mine which started the entire thing:


I posted something that was wrong and instead being mature and ignoring it and/or just posting the correct information he was a DICK about it - "You should really just stop talking". So yes I did call him out on being a dick, as many of his responses here clearly show is a pretty damn accurate statement.

So lefty, bow out as I am being my work here is done.
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:lol: Nice "bow out" :lol:

He calls you out and you call him names. Not sure that you were "being mature" either.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion about my intelligence, and how you view Shawn.

Dave
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
He asked about poor stream quality. The OP even thanked me for explaining it to him. For **** sake....he even gave me rep. So I guess I read his question right.

If anyone is being an OCD can't let it go knob, it's you. Asshat.

I think you and Skippy should go find a room, and get your negative feelings about me out in the open. Hug it out. Start a support group. Want some cookies to get it started?
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He thanked you and gave you rep, because you were explaining technical concepts that were ultimately correct,and that he had no experience with, so he took you at your word. This is the reason I replied in the first place, because what you're saying, although true, is misleading because it doesn't fit this particular situation at all.

Why can't you admit that in this situation it's not the client, but the host location? I just don't get it.

It's like someone asking a mechanic why their car won't start, and then the mechanic spits out some technical terms, ultimately saying it's most likely the tire pressure.

You are responding to a post where the OP clearly states that A) the streamers admit THEY have quality issues at SOME HOST LOCATIONS, and B) The OP experiences some of their streams (the ones at the streamer's home locations) in great quality, and others in bad quality (meaning it more than likely isn't the OP's network).

How the hell to you take that information, and then start talking about UDP packet loss on the home network? It seems like you just want everyone to know how knowledgeable you are about networking, whether or not the information is relevant.
 
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Shawn Armstrong said:
And what you fail to recognize, in saying "this particular situation", was that he was asking a general question about ALL FUTURE STREAMS. That isn't a particular situation. My answer was "it isn't as easy as just making sure you have bandwidth". You seem to be the one that wants to argue over something that doesn't at all pertain to his question. In his particular example he referred to, the streamer was to blame. However, not all stream issues are caused by the streamer, or the bandwidth of the venue.

So, your answer is flawed in ALL SITUATIONS, because it isn't the answer for why EVERY STREAM has a problem. Mine covers all situations. The correct answer regarding "why is my stream bad" is "it depends".

If you don't understand that by now, have your mom read it to you slowly at bedtime tonight.
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In his post, the OP explains his particular situation, which clearly says it's low quality because of the host location, and then says, and I quote, "If this is true, is there not a way to test how much bandwith a venue has before charging for a low quality stream?"

He isn't asking you for general advice on what causes low quality issues. He is clearly asking a question that is specific to his situation. You don't read that, and then go off on a tangent about UDP packet loss that can happen in other situations.

You need some serious work on your reading comprehension, logical reasoning, and ego issues.

I'm seriously done with this. Last post, you can keep telling yourself what you want. Everyone else here doesn't have to be a network engineer to understand what's been said.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
And then asked "I and I'm sure many other PPV buyers on here and facebook would like to know we are getting a good stream before shelling out our hard earned money. I'm sure others have quit buying streams because of low quality"

But I guess you stopped reading after that first question, genius? Multi part questions are a *****, aren't they? Makes it hard to give a definitive answer....like you're trying to do.

Oh, and on the topic of reading comprehension, I was answering the second part. Everyone else involved in this discussion seems to have got that, but you. So, either we are all the problem, or you are. I know which one I'm putting my chips on....
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"I said I was done with the thread. ", kettle, pot.

You might want to read up on JohnnyT's style of posts and you will see he likes to be unspecific even though everyone knows what he is referring to. He was referring to the shit Dragon stream out of Manila that everyone had problems with that was caused by the streamer not by 100% people running f'n vacuum cleaners causing interference on their 12 year old access point.

Sure "Roughly 5-10% of people have stream issues", ON good streams. But not on shit streams.

Good thing you aren't in the industry anymore.:rolleyes: I'm done with this thread.
 
I usually ask the audience watching if the stream is okay, if the consensus is yes then great. If I get 9 yes and 1 no then it is obviously not on my end. If I get a bunch of people telling me its choppy then its on my end. Usually a simple fix is lowering the output qualities from say 480p to 360p and if not I can go one step lower so it is a smooth picture. The picture frame rate will be smooth but clarity will be lost when the settings are lowered.

Shawn knows his tech stuff obviously with this and can pinpoint issues. The big thing is most places we stream from have a poor connection to begin with and sometimes the Wifi is open so you have 100 people on an already poor connection. Usually I will ask if I can add or change a password so I can be solely on it for the event but at times they have some tech guy who they can't get in touch with and they don't have the info to let me get into it. I believe in time internet connections will get better everywhere you go and so will the live streams.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I usually ask the audience watching if the stream is okay, if the consensus is yes then great. If I get 9 yes and 1 no then it is obviously not on my end. If I get a bunch of people telling me its choppy then its on my end. Usually a simple fix is lowering the output qualities from say 480p to 360p and if not I can go one step lower so it is a smooth picture. The picture frame rate will be smooth but clarity will be lost when the settings are lowered.

Shawn knows his tech stuff obviously with this and can pinpoint issues. The big thing is most places we stream from have a poor connection to begin with and sometimes the Wifi is open so you have 100 people on an already poor connection. Usually I will ask if I can add or change a password so I can be solely on it for the event but at times they have some tech guy who they can't get in touch with and they don't have the info to let me get into it. I believe in time internet connections will get better everywhere you go and so will the live streams.
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Most internet providers have a business group. If you needed an internet line dedicated to you, you could call them and discuss it. I don't think it would be a ridiculously huge amount of money, and you'd have a pile of bandwidth dedicated to you.

Regarding internet connections and data rates, here is some reading. I was surprised that uStream is using TCP/IP for streaming video. That's why I had some freezing while watching the pool room feed.

http://www.skullbox.net/tcpudp.php

One thing for streamers to check out would be the protocol your streaming service host is using to send the data to your customer. UDP - faster....even says so in the link....but I'm sure someone will correct me.
 
Shawn Armstrong said:
Most internet providers have a business group. If you needed an internet line dedicated to you, you could call them and discuss it. I don't think it would be a ridiculously huge amount of money, and you'd have a pile of bandwidth dedicated to you.

Regarding internet connections and data rates, here is some reading. I was surprised that uStream is using TCP/IP for streaming video. That's why I had some freezing while watching the pool room feed.

http://www.skullbox.net/tcpudp.php

One thing for streamers to check out would be the protocol your streaming service host is using to send the data to your customer. UDP - faster....even says so in the link....but I'm sure someone will correct me.
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I'm sorry a few people got you upset. Shawn...but I'm still calling this a Wikipedia for
Streamers.....'cause a lot of people quoted you.
Great info....gotta feeling we'll meet in the future.

regards
py
 
pt109 said:
I'm sorry a few people got you upset. Shawn...but I'm still calling this a Wikipedia for
Streamers.....'cause a lot of people quoted you.
Great info....gotta feeling we'll meet in the future.

regards
py
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I didn't get upset by it. When a few people come out and tell me I'm wrong, I leave it to them, as they clearly feel their expertise is higher than mine.

Some people just seemed hell bent on telling me I was wrong. I don't know how wrong someone can be, when my answer was "it depends". That's usually a correct answer to almost any question that can be asked.

I took down my earlier posts, as I didn't feel like entertaining the barrage from a few people that wanted to question my expertise, or what I used to do for a livelihood. I left the industry because I wanted to be home while my boys are young, and I can watch them grow. I was merely trying to help, not become a personal dartboard for a few posters that hide behind an alias.

Thanks for the message, Paul :)
 
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