drivermaker
Banned
What's the major difference between beeswax and bondo...why is the preference one over the other for certain mechanics...and what are the pluses and minuses of both?
Popped seams
- Thread starter WestElder
- Start date
the dealer i was trained by used beeswax so that was the only way i knew how to do it,after i started re-clothing other tables i found that other mechanics used bondo and also a white mixtue of some kind to seal the joints.the bondo and other nonflexible fillers can crack/chip easier than a flexible filler like beeswax.just my opinion,alot of good mechanics use bondo and thats ok,the beeswax filled joints feel like glass when they cool.
Hi Folks,
We have a similar problem here in Rochester. A few of our GC III's pop their seams regularly. The tables are in a basement. The humidity changes regularly. The GC III slates are not doweled. One of the reasons or all? My understanding is, the slates are held together by business cards that were saturated with "crazy glue". The seams were then finished with "bee's wax". The mechanic suggests that people are sitting on the tables. Not in my memory but, I'm not there 24/7. Any suggestions?
We have a similar problem here in Rochester. A few of our GC III's pop their seams regularly. The tables are in a basement. The humidity changes regularly. The GC III slates are not doweled. One of the reasons or all? My understanding is, the slates are held together by business cards that were saturated with "crazy glue". The seams were then finished with "bee's wax". The mechanic suggests that people are sitting on the tables. Not in my memory but, I'm not there 24/7. Any suggestions?
i have spoken with owners of tables and 2 mechanics in the Chicago area ..all of which solved the propblem with liquid dowel..one mechanic had 26 years experience the other about 15 years ..they swear by the stuff..since they started using it about 1 1/2 years ago they have never gotten a recall......
The installer is coming back and will use "grout", by which I think he means plaster. From what I have read in the responses to this thread (thanks to all for your comments!), this is a tried and true old school way to solve the problem. If it doesn't work, you'll hear the scream all the way from my basement.cuejoey said:
Dave
cuejoey said:
I had a table that popped the seams regularly and the Liquid Dowel was the cure. I never had problems with the table after using this stuff and we used it on my Diamond Pro when we put it together and have never had the slate pop. My friend the table installer started using the Liquid Dowell after his experinece with my other table and has never had a slate pop on any table he installed after having started using the Liquid Dowell. I got it through Brady Bherman from Q Masters (where the US Open is held...hope I got the name right..bad memory).
Uh-oh. If I were you, I wouldn't read any threads about tables falling through the floorEL'nino said:
FWIW, the installer is coming back later this week and will strip the table down to the frame and rebuild it back up. I'm still more hopeful than exasperated, so one more time...
Dave
Often popped seams are cause by unqualified mechanics. IMO the leveling process is by far the most critical part of installation. I can relate to mechanic/player I learned from my own mistakes. Now its like tying your shoes.
I try to stay away from wedge shims as often as possible. They tend to back out over time if they arent really snug. I prefer flat shims at the corners and if needed a wedge shim at the center. I also use bees wax... Maybe it is a E/W thing? I find it much easier to work with. Its not an easier application but it will be appreciated by you or the next mechanic in the future. There is nothing like spending more time dismantling a table then setting one up. I hate bondo and I hate plaster. If I have to fill holes or chips I usually use plaster. Beeswax has a very high melting point so its pretty hard but I don't trust it for deep holes in the playing surface. My seems feel like glass!!!
I try to stay away from wedge shims as often as possible. They tend to back out over time if they arent really snug. I prefer flat shims at the corners and if needed a wedge shim at the center. I also use bees wax... Maybe it is a E/W thing? I find it much easier to work with. Its not an easier application but it will be appreciated by you or the next mechanic in the future. There is nothing like spending more time dismantling a table then setting one up. I hate bondo and I hate plaster. If I have to fill holes or chips I usually use plaster. Beeswax has a very high melting point so its pretty hard but I don't trust it for deep holes in the playing surface. My seems feel like glass!!!
matthew staton
Banned
ceebee said:
SLAte lines I hate them seems every 9 ft table i ever play on at the pool hall has them rising up making the balls jump they get so bad.
The seam popped again two weeks after their last trip out there. The installer/dealer have now decided that the base the slates rest on (and are screwed to) has an alignment problem, basically a manufacturing defect. The mfgr is shipping a new base, which will be installed in early June. If I never post to this thread again, I'll be a happy guy.
WestElder said:
West-man,
Good luck. This sounds eerily familiar. FWIW after the second time the dealer fixed my popped seams, they speculated about the humidity in the basement, kids secretly jumping on the table, and table base defect (as you recall from my PM I was fortunate enough to have a local mechanic from whom I could get a second opinion) - it turned out to be none of the above. At least your dealer is working on it. I hope you get it fixed correctly this time. Keep us posted.
Williebetmore said:
Yes, the phantom menace (I live alone, so it involves children materializing from nowhere) was one of their first guesses. We couldn't find any footprints on the table or candy wrappers on the floor, so they reluctantly moved on to more plausible scenarios, such as that I had lifted one end of the table to vacuum underneath. I rolled up my sleeves and flexed my biceps, and we then quickly moved onto other ideas. At least they now accept that there was a problem with the installation or the table itself. The mfgr, store and installer are all engaged at this point, so I'm hanging in there for another round.
Honestly, I don't know how tight the specs and QA are on the base design and construction, so even getting a new one may not be the happy solution everyone is wishing for. One of the cross pieces on the base is about 1/2" off, which means that a center screw (into laminate) is hitting air. They should use hardwood (or thicker laminate) to begin with and should have caught the misalignment problem during manufacturing. IMO, there's too much reliance on the "kit" approach to assembling a table these days. Some art has been lost in the better engineering approach.
Ever...so...slowly, we're getting there....
no thanks to the bondo
I am new here but I'd like to chime in on this one... I have been a table mechanic for about ten years now. IF a pool table was to be put up ONE TIME and stay in that spot FOREVER, I might say bondo wouldn't be a bad way to go. I am a firm believer that sand paper should NEVER touch a piece of slate. However, Most tables don't stay in the same spot and bondo is a real pain in the butt to get back off of the slate once it has set up. It also has a tendency to chip the slate as you try to remove it. So many new tables are made of so many inferior materials nowdays. I have always used bee's wax and have had over all great results. On the few tables I have experienced repeted poped seams, I used a product like Duram's Rock-Hard and never had any other problems.Troy said:
Final resolution
Well, I've waited 3 weeks since the last work was done to make sure that the table is really fixed, and it finally is. The first big problem was that the base was poorly made, specifically the cross-pieces that the slate is screwed into were manufactured 1/2" off from where they should have been. The screws holding the centers of the slates didn't have enough of the wood to grab onto and were hitting air, so the slate "flexed" and the seams popped. I don't know why the installer didn't see it the first time. So, they replaced the base.
I knew that that wasn't the only problem, so when he put the slates and the felt back on the new base, the table didn't play right. I showed him how the ball drifted north-south at one end and east-west at the other. He tried to convince me that it was because the felt was new, and the problem would go away once it got broken in (?!). I called bullshit on that, and finally got him to agree that one of the pieces of slate was domed and that he didn't level the other one right. He gave up eventually and told the dealer that the slate was bad.
The dealer offered to swap the domed piece with a piece from another table they were holding for someone else. I told him that I would give him one more chance (their 5th) to get it right, and then I would raise a public stink locally and make the manufacturer take back the table for a refund. They then decided to give me a full set of new slates. A different installer came a week later and did the job in 2 hours. The table is now flat and true, and I love it. Even though there were manufacturing problems with the slate and the base, most of the fault was in the installation. Either the first installer didn't see the problems, or he didn't think I would make him deal with them. I guess people who put tables in their houses don't usually have high expectations
Anyway, time for a couple of racks before bed.
Well, I've waited 3 weeks since the last work was done to make sure that the table is really fixed, and it finally is. The first big problem was that the base was poorly made, specifically the cross-pieces that the slate is screwed into were manufactured 1/2" off from where they should have been. The screws holding the centers of the slates didn't have enough of the wood to grab onto and were hitting air, so the slate "flexed" and the seams popped. I don't know why the installer didn't see it the first time. So, they replaced the base.
I knew that that wasn't the only problem, so when he put the slates and the felt back on the new base, the table didn't play right. I showed him how the ball drifted north-south at one end and east-west at the other. He tried to convince me that it was because the felt was new, and the problem would go away once it got broken in (?!). I called bullshit on that, and finally got him to agree that one of the pieces of slate was domed and that he didn't level the other one right. He gave up eventually and told the dealer that the slate was bad.
The dealer offered to swap the domed piece with a piece from another table they were holding for someone else. I told him that I would give him one more chance (their 5th) to get it right, and then I would raise a public stink locally and make the manufacturer take back the table for a refund. They then decided to give me a full set of new slates. A different installer came a week later and did the job in 2 hours. The table is now flat and true, and I love it. Even though there were manufacturing problems with the slate and the base, most of the fault was in the installation. Either the first installer didn't see the problems, or he didn't think I would make him deal with them. I guess people who put tables in their houses don't usually have high expectations
Anyway, time for a couple of racks before bed.