Popping silver rings

Mr Hoppe

Mr Hoppe

Sawdust maker
Silver Member
I have seen many cues with silver rings, where over time, the rings apparently expand and become a raised bump above the surface of the cue. This can also cause finish seperation in extreme cases, but just having them "pop" to make a non-cylindrical surface is bad enough to me. Some have said this happens because the metal expands at a different rate than the surrounding wood. Others have said that it won't happen if the silver ring is sandwitched between phenolic. Still others have said that silver rings will pop over time no matter what you do, but I have one 7 year old cue with silver rings that are perfectly flush with the outer diameter of the cue. No popping whatsoever, but I take good care of my cues, and NEVER expose them to temperature extremes, etc.

Is there a construction technique to use to keep the rings from popping under normal circumstances? E.g., sandwitch them in phenolic, or make them smaller than the od of the cue prior to finishing.

Thanks for your insights.
Mr H <-- cue maker in training
 
Sounds like a possible explanation on the surface, but in that case, shouldn't I also be seeing as many phenolic joint collars higher than the shaft/butt material? I don't recall ever seeing that condition on a cue less than 20 years old (common among Brunswick's made in the 40s & 50s) and I see a very high occurrence rate of these "popping" rings.

Mr H
 
If The Silver Is "sleeved" Over Phenolic, It Won't Pop. It Can't Just Be Sandwiched Between Phenolic, It Will Still Pop Over Time. Most Cuemakers Won't Take The Time, To Machine The Phenolic To Sleeve The Silver Over It.
 
Good point, I wonder how true that is I have heard 2o different ways to combat the problem never heard a solid way of stopping it.

Craig
 
n10spool said:
Good point, I wonder how true that is I have heard 2o different ways to combat the problem never heard a solid way of stopping it.

Craig
Click to expand...

I HAVE A LARGE COLLECTION OF CUES WITH THE SILVER RINGS, AND NONE OF THEM ARE POPPING, NOT MY PALYER, NOT THE 20-30 YEAR OLD ONES. HIS WAY WORKS, AND THAT'S THE ONE I MENTIONED.
 
Cool cool I just never though tof sleeving the inner side of the ring with phenolic or maching it that way. Thanks I will try it see how good of a method it is. It sound logical to do it that way, I just never realy looked at it that close for good solutions I just quit using silver rings for the head aches.

Thanks,
Craig
 
Mr Hoppe said:
Is there a construction technique to use to keep the rings from popping under normal circumstances?
Mr H <-- cue maker in training
Click to expand...


Plain and simple......don't use metal rings in your cues.
That's the only fix I know that is a 100% positive fix.

There are some different techniques used to try and eliminate this age old problem. If you try a search on the forum you should pull some different threads up on this subject.
Sandwiching between phenolic, undercutting are couple ways you can slow down the process. But even sealed and covered with a clear coat wood and phenolic both will take on and expel moisture creating movement .....metal does not expand and/or contract from moisture to my knowledge. Temperature will play a factor in it though.
I would say your pretty lucky not having any movement in your personal cue. Well seasoned wood and being kept in a like environment that the cue was built in are probably contributing factors to your case.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I HAVE A LARGE COLLECTION OF CUES WITH THE SILVER RINGS, AND NONE OF THEM ARE POPPING, NOT MY PALYER, NOT THE 20-30 YEAR OLD ONES. HIS WAY WORKS, AND THAT'S THE ONE I MENTIONED.
Click to expand...


Good for you........I learned something new today!


Edit....After I read this again... one could read in to this as me being a smart ass. I got it straight with F_N_L and just wanted to say that I was being sincere in learning something new.
(not that I haven't ever been a smart ass before....)
 
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FAST_N_LOOSE said:
If The Silver Is "sleeved" Over Phenolic, It Won't Pop. It Can't Just Be Sandwiched Between Phenolic, It Will Still Pop Over Time. Most Cuemakers Won't Take The Time, To Machine The Phenolic To Sleeve The Silver Over It.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip Marcus. What is the cause of the problem that this technique solves?
 
I'm not a cuemaker and this is what I've learned/known. Wood moves based on it's moisture content. Metal moves based on temparature change. I could be wrong and I stand corrected.
 
maybe this will help you. i use the fat silver .050 rings. i have this small triangle shaped file that i use to polish the rings and i slightly undercut them with it. if my router bit isnt ultra sharp sometimes the fat rings splatter a bit and that little file helps get them sharp again. i recommend trying before doing it on a cue
 
using west system slow dry under preasure overnight will do the trick
you will have no problems sand rings on the flat sides also
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
THE PHENOLIC KEEPS THE WOODS FROM MOVING UNDER THE METAL.
Click to expand...
You're talking about the tenon that the rings are slid over?? As in the tenon itself expanding and causing the rings to pop??
 
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