Powder blue dust from a white wrap?

Tommy-D

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
> I had my Schon rewrapped by Tommy,the older guy that bought Bill McDaniel's shop on Wednesday. Naturally,he didn't press the wrap as well as I would have liked on the spot,so I decided to fix it up like I wanted myself. I tried pressing it several times,and never could get it as flat as I wanted,to I started to sand it,and was very confused when faced with a sizeable amount of truly powder-blue dust,coming from a white with black spot wrap. I was able to get MOST of it off,but there are still tiny blue specks,mostly down in the grooves,and a slight blue tint. I tried using the Magic Eraser,and paper towels dampened with my usual citrus-based light cleaner. Any ideas?

I was kind of impressed with his roller bearing press,a 1/2 wide,1 1/4 diameter bearing mounted in a cartridge for his QC toolpost. I was NOT impressed,however,with the fact that there is now a 1/4 wide spot at the top of the wrap where the finish was popped,that I didn't notice until I got home. Add to that the fact that instead of using a mandrel/joint protector to turn the butt from the joint pin,he wrapped the front of my cue with masking tape and stuck it into the spindle of the lathe without using a collet,this particular lathe had a collet system instead of a chuck. Tommy D.
 
what I normaly do when I need to sand a wrap is while the lathe is spinning first get the wrap damp with spray starch and wipe with a paper towel then press.. The starch tends to pull out the dust better than other things I've tried..
hope this helps
 
Tommy-D,
I've read your post several times to make sure that I had the chronology of events in order. I was going to start with, 'did you make your issues known to the person who did the work, at the time it was presented to you, or did you just accept it and leave?' However,that may be a mute point because now that you've attempted a repair yourself, how can you be sure who did the finish damage? While the installer's methods and quality of work level may be questionable, you did accept the finished product at the time it was presented to you. Rather than attempting a repair yourself, you should have presented your concerns to Tom immediately.

IMO, it may be inappropriate to now present your case to this forum because you may well have had a hand in causing the damage. By your own admission, you didn't notice the finish damage until AFTER you'd started your repair. An unfortunate chain of events.

There is no logical explanation for the blue powder(most likely chalk) on a 'fresh from the lathe' re-wrap other than, is it possible that the wrap picked-up the chalk from the inside of your case? The installer can't be held responsible for the condition of the interior of YOUR case. Nor can he be held responsible for anything you've done to the wrap 'after the fact'. In essence, since you've attempted your own repair, you've relieved him of any liability.

The repair will require that the wrap be removed, spot repair of the finish damage and then re-wrapped. You should expect to pay for this; again. Leave cue repairs to those who do it for a living. Only this time, don't leave the repairman's shop until you get the satisfaction that you're paying for.
 
KJ Cues said:
Tommy-D,
I've read your post several times to make sure that I had the chronology of events in order. I was going to start with, 'did you make your issues known to the person who did the work, at the time it was presented to you, or did you just accept it and leave?' However,that may be a mute point because now that you've attempted a repair yourself, how can you be sure who did the finish damage? While the installer's methods and quality of work level may be questionable, you did accept the finished product at the time it was presented to you. Rather than attempting a repair yourself, you should have presented your concerns to Tom immediately.

IMO, it may be inappropriate to now present your case to this forum because you may well have had a hand in causing the damage. By your own admission, you didn't notice the finish damage until AFTER you'd started your repair. An unfortunate chain of events.

There is no logical explanation for the blue powder(most likely chalk) on a 'fresh from the lathe' re-wrap other than, is it possible that the wrap picked-up the chalk from the inside of your case? The installer can't be held responsible for the condition of the interior of YOUR case. Nor can he be held responsible for anything you've done to the wrap 'after the fact'. In essence, since you've attempted your own repair, you've relieved him of any liability.

The repair will require that the wrap be removed, spot repair of the finish damage and then re-wrapped. You should expect to pay for this; again. Leave cue repairs to those who do it for a living. Only this time, don't leave the repairman's shop until you get the satisfaction that you're paying for.
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Also, He may have installed a dark blue wrap as they are hard to tell apart in most lighting conditions. After you sand the wrap, you are rewashing and repressing the wrap area aren't you? Anytime a wrap is sanded it must, or shall I say "should" be rewashed and repressed to eliminate any fuzz that develops from sanding. This rewashing takes all or at least most of this powder you are talking about out. Another thing, concerning dyes and pigments, often the color you see is not the same color that was applied. During the manufacturing process, they may have to use some other color so that when dry it comes out looking like white with black speck.

Dick
 
Am I the only one here that does not nor ever heard of sanding a linen wrap after installation? IMO that is insane. Press, starch, press, press again smooth as glass. Sand linen??#@$%#@$ WTF
 
sanding works also.did you use hise sandpaper or a new piece of your sandpaper.i got a little confused as well,but if you grabbed a piece of sandpaper out of his shop,it was probably loaded up with junk and dust from something else.
 
RocketQ said:
Am I the only one here that does not nor ever heard of sanding a linen wrap after installation? IMO that is insane. Press, starch, press, press again smooth as glass. Sand linen??#@$%#@$ WTF
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Try it, you might like it, if you want it slick and shiny :) All the secrets are getting out now...
 
Sanding linen is no secret. It's something most builders know of, or at least the ones I know. It's also not a beginner's task. It's something that should be experimented with & mastered before attempting to apply it to real world use. As for blue dust, Dick hit it center ball. The dye is dark blue, not black. I have never seen true black dye, for any application. India ink is black, but it's not very good as dye.
 
RocketQ said:
Am I the only one here that does not nor ever heard of sanding a linen wrap after installation? IMO that is insane. Press, starch, press, press again smooth as glass. Sand linen??#@$%#@$ WTF
Click to expand...

John, truthfully, I quit using starch on a wrap over 30 years ago and I doubt I would use it today, even if asked to. It presses out fairly nice but in hot or humid weather, when your hands sweat a little bit, it becomes sticky and dirt more readily sticks to starched wraps also.

There are many different ways of pressing wraps to get a different feel and sanding is just one of them.

Dick
 
Dick and Jim,
Thanks. I have never had a problem with starch or request for other methods. I guess it was never broke so I never fixed it. I will try anything well almost anything once or even twice. But this like a lot of other things you think wouldn't work in cuemaking must. Excuse my ignorance. One of the great things about this. You are never done learning. Or building jigs or buying tools.... Ok

Thanks again
 
Clarification.....

> The wrap was indeed white with black when installed,I made certain that it was the right color. The finish damage was noticed when I got home from Jackson,2 hours before I ever did anything with it except take it out of my case. I agree 100% that I should have noticed it BEFORE I left.

My case is a Stroke Sports 3x5,either a low-line Instroke or copy,so I can't see how chalk dust would find it's way down into one of the butt tubes.

I've always sanded my linen wraps,and to this point have NEVER done any finish damage,either with sandpaper or the 2 flat boards I use to press them. Fresh sandpaper was indeed used.

The damage was NOT done by me,I can rest easy in that fact. My best guess is that it was done by Tommy when he was pressing down the last strand that sticks up on the ends,he was pressing/burnishing it down with a Delrin block,but I only saw him doing that on the other end,the damage is in the ring above the wrap.

Had I noticed it on the spot,how should I have handled it? Obviously,some tact would be required by me,which would have been really hard,I was pretty bent about it once I saw it at home. I can see myself getting HOT about it in the shop,had a fight broke out it would have been at least 2-1,in cramped quarters. Would something like this warrant a complete re-finish,on the house? A free wrap? Enlighten me,Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
> The wrap was indeed white with black when installed,I made certain that it was the right color. The finish damage was noticed when I got home from Jackson,2 hours before I ever did anything with it except take it out of my case. I agree 100% that I should have noticed it BEFORE I left.

My case is a Stroke Sports 3x5,either a low-line Instroke or copy,so I can't see how chalk dust would find it's way down into one of the butt tubes.

I've always sanded my linen wraps,and to this point have NEVER done any finish damage,either with sandpaper or the 2 flat boards I use to press them. Fresh sandpaper was indeed used.

The damage was NOT done by me,I can rest easy in that fact. My best guess is that it was done by Tommy when he was pressing down the last strand that sticks up on the ends,he was pressing/burnishing it down with a Delrin block,but I only saw him doing that on the other end,the damage is in the ring above the wrap.

Had I noticed it on the spot,how should I have handled it? Obviously,some tact would be required by me,which would have been really hard,I was pretty bent about it once I saw it at home. I can see myself getting HOT about it in the shop,had a fight broke out it would have been at least 2-1,in cramped quarters. Would something like this warrant a complete re-finish,on the house? A free wrap? Enlighten me,Tommy D.
Click to expand...

This is probably, the only difficult part about installing a linen wrap. Pressing the ends flush with the cue's surface. The leverage a press exerts can put tremendous pressure on a wrap and it creates a lot of heat. You must get the ends of the wrap flush without melting or removing the adjacent finish which can be difficult, especially if the finish was not the best installation to start with. Many finishes do not stick real well to phenolics so when the press puts any pressure or temperature on it it lifts. This is why I said, in another post, that I believe the sealer is more important than the finish on a cue as it needs to stick to everything and allow the finish to stick to it well. I still run my press over the ends but very lightly and then hope and pray that the finish holds up. Another thing that I always do when re-wrapping a cue is that I make sure that the wrap groove is the right depth and the corners clean and square by chucking up the cue and running my cutter to the proper depth at both ends. I have also found that, depending on which direction the new wrap is put on, one end will be higher than the other. This is caused, I believe, from forcing the wrap toward the one end while pressing so that it is tighter in the end of the groove there. At any rate, I cut my groove .002 deeper on my finished end than I do on my starting end.

Dick
 
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Somehow, you'd have to prove that the installer caused the damage. At the time the finished cue was handed to you would have been the ideal time to do that. Since you'd accepted the finished cue without inspection and then proceeded to do more work on your own, I would think it would be more than a little difficult to convince the installer that he's now responsible. I think you've lost the opportunity to make your case. As I stated earlier, the instant that you started making your own 'repair', you alleviated him of any responsibility.

I'm not saying that you don't have a case here and actually you may be as right as rain, but proving responsibility at this point, given the chain of events, is going to be difficult at best if not impossible. I'm not siding with the installer either. He may or may not have caused the damage. But he didn't say anything, you didn't say anything and then you proceeded to do your work on his wrap. I'm just looking at BOTH sides.

Since you're obviously dissatisfied with the re-wrap, have it removed, have the spot repair done on the finish and have it wrapped again to your satisfaction. No, the entire cue does not need to be refinished unless you're willing to pay for that. As you've stated, you have 1/4" of finish that has lifted just above the wrap. That qualifies as a 'spot' repair only. Send it to someone that you trust and get it done right.
 
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