Power Tool

[hadjcues]

I'm thinking of setting up a hi-speed rotary tool on a lathes tool post for trimming, facing and cut- off jobs. Just small work for joints, tenons and ferrules. I know this has been done with threading tools and I need to know if it would be better to have power instead of using bits.

My router set up already allows this but having it in the tool post offers greater flexibility.

Hadj

 

[Cue Crazy]

I mostly use a router for trimming/tapering dowels. Facing & most tenon stuff I do with regular tools in my post. Cutoff I do several ways, but not with the router too often. could with a collet adapter, but for cutting thin rings, I am going to use a smaller dia grinder of some sort, or small rotary mounted in the post I think. Would love to setup to grind threads somewhere down the line. Needless to say I would be interested in thoughts on this as well.

G

 

[Pancerny]

As with most operations on a lathe, the build up of heat is a big problem during mchining operations. The best way to accomplish threading in wood is with a quickly rotating tool. It gives the cleanest threads compared with using a standard type of threading set-up. For most other operations (cut-off or facing) there will be no benefit, in fact the extra heat may become a big problem, especially if you use any plastics, metals or phenolic materials.
Even wood will burn if there is too much heat.
Mike

(on a

I'm thinking of setting up a hi-speed rotary tool on a lathes tool post for trimming, facing and cut- off jobs. Just small work for joints, tenons and ferrules. I know this has been done with threading tools and I need to know if it would be better to have power instead of using bits.

My router set up already allows this but having it in the tool post offers greater flexibility.

Hadj

 

[Jon]

As far as cut-off.
This is what i use.
As an example, i've cut a ring of black phenolic (for a test) that was .005 thick, all the way around. Perfectly flat.
On the other hand, i've cut off a test piece of maple that was .500 thick and 1.400 round.

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

CUT-off tool

As far as cut-off.
This is what i use.
As an example, i've cut a ring of black phenolic (for a test) that was .005 thick, all the way around. Perfectly flat.
On the other hand, i've cut off a test piece of maple that was .500 thick and 1.400 round.

Sorry for being so stupid Jon,but I can't make heads nor tails out of your picture. Do you have a shot that's taken from a little further away? Is it mounted on a lathe?...JER

 

[JoeyInCali]

Looks like a tool post grinder redone by American Chopper.
You better patent that thing.

 

[macguy]

Sorry for being so stupid Jon,but I can't make heads nor tails out of your picture. Do you have a shot that's taken from a little further away? Is it mounted on a lathe?...JER

It looks like it mounts on a quick change tool post and you just feed it into the piece to be cut off. Pretty scary looking also, count all fingers when working around that thing.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Sorry for being so stupid Jon,but I can't make heads nor tails out of your picture. Do you have a shot that's taken from a little further away? Is it mounted on a lathe?...JER

Jer, look at the dovetail part with the bolt sticking out. Correct me if I'm wrong john, but I believe that is a quick change tool post mount, and I imagine that is how It mounts to the lathe. It does not look mounted from the picture though.
That is right up there with the way I was thinking of building something, at least the way the arbor is mounted anyway. I know you probably made the brackets for the motor and all, as that is how I would, and have done It other types of setups myself, like adding a motor to the headstock I built for The Proto-type cue drier I am building, But what about that arbor how did you aquire that? That thing looks hardened to me, and looks tuff to turn out on a lathe, where can one pick something like that up? Is It just a standard tool post grinder arbor? I was thinking of using a mini endmill of some type, but like the slitting saw idea, maybe I need to redesign. I will say that since I got the small mill, this kind of stuff is getting easier to build, I will try to get some pics up of a few things I have been working on one of these days to return the favor, some I can't show because too simular to others designs, therefore would not be fair to them, but I will share what I can. Do Really like the design, bet It works great. Greg

 

[Jon]

Mac,

Right on both counts.

 

[Jon]

Jer, look at the dovetail part with the bolt sticking out. Correct me if I'm wrong john, but I believe that is a quick change tool post mount, and I imagine that is how It mounts to the lathe. It does not look mounted from the picture though.
That is right up there with the way I was thinking of building something, at least the way the arbor is mounted anyway. I know you probably made the brackets for the motor and all, as that is how I would, and have done It other types of setups myself, like adding a motor to the headstock I built for The Proto-type cue drier I am building, But what about that arbor how did you aquire that? That thing looks hardened to me, and looks tuff to turn out on a lathe, where can one pick something like that up? Is It just a standard tool post grinder arbor? I was thinking of using a mini endmill of some type, but like the slitting saw idea, maybe I need to redesign. I will say that since I got the small mill, this kind of stuff is getting easier to build, I will try to get some pics up of a few things I have been working on one of these days to return the favor, some I can't show because too simular to others designs, therefore would not be fair to them, but I will share what I can. Do Really like the design, bet It works great. Greg

Yes, it mounts on the quick change tool post.
The design is simple.
We took a bar of tool steel.
Bored out both ends.
Pressed in two bearings with the shaft.
Machined the arbor out of something (can't remember exactly what)
Used a rather large ball-end mill to cut out a "holder" for the arbor (both pieces)
Mounted it all up and added a power switch (just a regular light switch)
Of course it rotates clockwise, so no dust is thrown up in the operators face .
It really doesn't go all that fast ( I'll change that soon enough )
So it's pretty safe.
Here is another picture of it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Of course it rotates clockwise, so no dust is thrown up in the operators face .
.

Why not? It might improve the operator's mug. J/k.
Be careful dude. Did you say .005" phenolic rings?

 

[Cue Crazy]

Yes, it mounts on the quick change tool post.
The design is simple.
We took a bar of tool steel.
Bored out both ends.
Pressed in two bearings with the shaft.
Machined the arbor out of something (can't remember exactly what)
Used a rather large ball-end mill to cut out a "holder" for the arbor (both pieces)
Mounted it all up and added a power switch (just a regular light switch)
Of course it rotates clockwise, so no dust is thrown up in the operators face .
It really doesn't go all that fast ( I'll change that soon enough )
So it's pretty safe.
Here is another picture of it.

The simplicity is one of the best parts of the design, sometimes achieving that can be a feat in It'self. I for one like It. If you ever produce any of those arbors for sale let Me know, I am definately interested.
There Is a guy some of you are familiar with that makes endmill spindles for minimills & cnc hiself, seems Like a very smart Guy. he has a website, and could not believe the stuff the guy actually built from junk for next to nothing in cost, and does a variety of different operations with the stuff he built. very impressive. This Is kind of what I like to do with stuff I need, except on a much lower backyard level I guess some would say. Always buying lots of machine parts, brackets bearings pulleys, slides you name it, the more I have, the more to play with to build stuff. Sometimes I am just sitting on the floor with Island of a bunch of parts all around me, trying to figure out how I can machine this part to fit the other a certain way to acomplish a certain operation. Probably does not help My space issue at all. The more simple I can build something the better, alot easier to setup and mantain that way, so i do have an high apprietiation for simple designs. The more complicated stuff I like to draw out then make changes as to what I was able to obtain to actually make It.
I have been machining some stainless, and some semi hardened stuff, but have not got into the tooled steel yet, besides the alloy tool. Seems like It would take a while to bore that bearing sleeve you made. Seems like I have some small pieces of tool, maybe I should play around a turn on them to see how tough to machine. Have done all the easier steels,alloys,allum,thermos, plexis, even used wood LOL, but still need to tackle the harder stuff, for a few things I would like to build. Also lagging on tooling for the mill.
I need something to mill the round on spindle mounts such as the one in your picture But larger, and my mill is only a mini, so only has the small r8 collet. Guess I need a rotary table for the bigger stuff. Don't Like the fly cutters. i have a couple of solid endmill bits with a strange grind on them, altough don't know what they are called, as I got them in a lot of lathe tools i bought sometime ago, they seem to cut good 1 to 1 1/4 holes but not enough for the larger mounts, flat bearing mounts, thru-holes and that sort of thing. I have not tried the ball mills yet. Are they easier to do if you slot It first with a straight bit to remove some of the material before hand, or does It cut & remove material well enough that It is not an issue?
Anyway Nice design, and I think the slower motor at first was a smart move to see what It would handle before boosting the rpm. That is the way I approach stuff at first as well, unless super confident of the outcome. It's always the best thing anytime you machine any kind of fast moving part/tool.
Greg

 

[Jon]

Why not? It might improve the operator's mug. J/k.
Be careful dude. Did you say .005" phenolic rings?

I made a special shield to guard my sideburns . j/k
Yes, i did say .005" phenolic rings.
I don't know for sure, but i may have typed that post in german or something .
I think you need a vacation from the server room.

Careful isn't my middle name.
OUCH $#%$#^%%$^$#@ would be closer.

~~~No it wasn't hot, it just doesn't take me all that long to look at it~~~

 

[Jon]

The simplicity is one of the best parts of the design, sometimes achieving that can be a feat in It'self. I for one like It. If you ever produce any of those arbors for sale let Me know, I am definately interested.

The whole thing is simple to build. I want to build another one, maybe with a slightly wider blade, with less teeth.

This Is kind of what I like to do with stuff I need, except on a much lower backyard level I guess some would say. Always buying lots of machine parts, brackets bearings pulleys, slides you name it, the more I have, the more to play with to build stuff.

You should see OUR paypal account activity . I think ebay is the work of the devil.

Sometimes I am just sitting on the floor with Island of a bunch of parts all around me, trying to figure out how I can machine this part to fit the other a certain way to acomplish a certain operation. Probably does not help My space issue at all.

I've been to that island many a-time. It's not pretty

The more simple I can build something the better, alot easier to setup and mantain that way, so i do have an high apprietiation for simple designs. The more complicated stuff I like to draw out then make changes as to what I was able to obtain to actually make It.

Simple is good. Easier to teardown. Easier to fix. Easier to modify.

I have been machining some stainless, and some semi hardened stuff, but have not got into the tooled steel yet, besides the alloy tool. Seems like It would take a while to bore that bearing sleeve you made. Seems like I have some small pieces of tool, maybe I should play around a turn on them to see how tough to machine. Have done all the easier steels,alloys,allum,thermos, plexis, even used wood LOL, but still need to tackle the harder stuff, for a few things I would like to build. Also lagging on tooling for the mill.

Oh, you should try to machine some Shaft Grade Alloy, that's fun

I need something to mill the round on spindle mounts such as the one in your picture But larger, and my mill is only a mini, so only has the small r8 collet. Guess I need a rotary table for the bigger stuff. Don't Like the fly cutters. i have a couple of solid endmill bits with a strange grind on them, altough don't know what they are called, as I got them in a lot of lathe tools i bought sometime ago, they seem to cut good 1 to 1 1/4 holes but not enough for the larger mounts, flat bearing mounts, thru-holes and that sort of thing. I have not tried the ball mills yet. Are they easier to do if you slot It first with a straight bit to remove some of the material before hand, or does It cut & remove material well enough that It is not an issue?

The ball end mills cut just like a regular straight end mill. No biggie.
I like fly cutters.
I used one to get a slab of bocote to the correct width... Dead on.

Anyway Nice design, and I think the slower motor at first was a smart move to see what It would handle before boosting the rpm. That is the way I approach stuff at first as well, unless super confident of the outcome. It's always the best thing anytime you machine any kind of fast moving part/tool.
Greg

Thanks for the kind words.
I think people here should show more of their tooling that they have made (except for the stuff they wouldn't show their own mother ) to give others ideas.

 

[Cue Crazy]

Yeah, you Hit that one on the head. I have a good steady 5 years activity with paypal Myself. I will say that being able to sell at auction has helped provide alot funds for what I do have to work with now, so has had it's advantages. You have to really be on top of things the pick the deals up anymore though, sometimes I still get lucky and find a good lot of stuff for cheap, but seems as if there are alot more people like us out there now looking to score also. need to put some stuff up, and build the old pp acount back up, so i can go on a search mission for some new stuff to tinker on.

Probably the best & most usefull thing I've built from parts picked up, and plate Allum. at this moment in time- even though it's definatly one of a kind, It was not a totally original concept of Mine, and I did get some help from the original designer, so don't feel like I can share that one at this time. I do have some small things i slapped together, kind of raw, altough does the trick for me, but as you mentioned don't know if i would even want to show good ol Mom LOL. I might post a few just for laughs if I get some pics of them downloaded. But you can bet I have few in mind that I don't think I'll be as shy on showing in the future, so there will be more to come.

I noticed that was a super fine tooth blade you had on there after My last post. I have seen quite a few of them, but not sure if I saw one that fine before.

I do need to try to atleast set a mini spindle up of some sort in my tool post with a micro carbide bit for cutting thinner rings for now, tear out can be a pain when you reach the bore in some woods, and as you mentioned If not carefull, can country fry some nice material if they smoke up on you. Altough some machine very well for me, I don't too much care for using thermos in my rings or joints anyway, due to their meltdown characteristics, so should work for me pretty well for what I need. Another Thing I need It for to is to cut billet rings thinner, I cut, and made some slotted billet, that was almost 50/50 thickness between the 2 materials, and and cut the rings so they are squared fine, and they are plenty strong, but if i try to go any thinner the want to come apart from the tool cutting in, due to the differences in the 2 materials used, one being harder, and the other softer, therefore want to cut them under power. they don't have to be super thin, just need the smoother cut of the rotary to get the reasonably smaller. I will Post any results from that project, as really just need a spindle of some sort, dia grinder, rotary, or something on those lines and make a mount to put in to use. I have spindle stuff I can use now, but tied up on other things I built, and want to leave them setup while working correctly, and tuned in for their purpose.
Well, let Me fly over and see if i can find some of those ball cutters to fit My mill. Sounds Like i need some. Thanks Greg

 

[BLACKHEARTCUES]

Cut _off Tol

The whole thing is simple to build. I want to build another one, maybe with a slightly wider blade, with less teeth.


You should see OUR paypal account activity . I think ebay is the work of the devil.


I've been to that island many a-time. It's not pretty



Simple is good. Easier to teardown. Easier to fix. Easier to modify.



Oh, you should try to machine some Shaft Grade Alloy, that's fun


The ball end mills cut just like a regular straight end mill. No biggie.
I like fly cutters.
I used one to get a slab of bocote to the correct width... Dead on.


Thanks for the kind words.
I think people here should show more of their tooling that they have made (except for the stuff they wouldn't show their own mother ) to give others ideas.

SORRY ,but until I see it mounted on the lathe, It still doesn't look real to me...JER

 

[Michael Webb]

Big Jon
Very nice design, simple but very effective. When are you going to show some cues.

 

[Cue Crazy]

SORRY ,but until I see it mounted on the lathe, It still doesn't look real to me...JER

I have to admit I don't dought this thing works really well at all, reason being It's been done before, and it's a very simple design. now how accurate would depend on how well machined and the bearing type probably, maybe the blade as well.
I imagine jon got the idea from the same place that gave me the idea to mention something like this in the earlier post. I don't know if anyone really holds a patent because i have seen several different brands manufactured.
It's basically a tool post grinder. some of The old ones were large, and looked really bulky, but were basically the same design, I have seen them with cutters,grinders, and slitting saws you name it. This looks real simular accept smaller and more suited for this purpose. I believe even watchmakers used them, so would not exactly be reinventing the wheel.
Jer, do you mean that you don't understand how it mounts to the quick change tool post? I think the plate the whole saw thing is mounted to would mount on the workside of the tool post running parallel with the cue if one was mounted in the lathe, and the motor would be on the right side of the tool post. Atleast thats the way I see getting the correct angle of the saw blade to the work piece being cut. Correct Me If wrong Jon.
jon, do you run the lathe under power also, or hand turn it? ever set something like that up, but for cutting billet with? That was another Idea I had. even that or a stand alone unit thats fairly small , has It's own bed w/indexing and uses linear slides to run on, with powerfeed ofcoarse. Dmm think that ones called a radial saw minus the indexing, so much for the patent on that idea, LOL. I could actually build that with what i have laying around, ofcoarse would still need a arbor, or spindle of some type for the cutter.
Greg

 

[Jon]

Big Jon
Very nice design, simple but very effective. When are you going to show some cues.

When I get around to it, when i get around to it. .

I'm still looking for a place that has a CNC with the LOC i need (for new taper bars)

AND, i don't know about yours, but my money tree isn't blooming .

Thanks,

Jon

 

[Jon]

I have to admit I don't dought this thing works really well at all, reason being It's been done before, and it's a very simple design. now how accurate would depend on how well machined and the bearing type probably, maybe the blade as well.
I imagine jon got the idea from the same place that gave me the idea to mention something like this in the earlier post. I don't know if anyone really holds a patent because i have seen several different brands manufactured.
It's basically a tool post grinder. some of The old ones were large, and looked really bulky, but were basically the same design, I have seen them with cutters,grinders, and slitting saws you name it. This looks real simular accept smaller and more suited for this purpose. I believe even watchmakers used them, so would not exactly be reinventing the wheel.
Jer, do you mean that you don't understand how it mounts to the quick change tool post? I think the plate the whole saw thing is mounted to would mount on the workside of the tool post running parallel with the cue if one was mounted in the lathe, and the motor would be on the right side of the tool post. Atleast thats the way I see getting the correct angle of the saw blade to the work piece being cut. Correct Me If wrong Jon.
jon, do you run the lathe under power also, or hand turn it? ever set something like that up, but for cutting billet with? That was another Idea I had. even that or a stand alone unit thats fairly small , has It's own bed w/indexing and uses linear slides to run on, with powerfeed ofcoarse. Dmm think that ones called a radial saw minus the indexing, so much for the patent on that idea, LOL. I could actually build that with what i have laying around, ofcoarse would still need a arbor, or spindle of some type for the cutter.
Greg

Yeah, it's basically a home grown (dedicated) tool post grinder.
After we built it, we eventually got a 1/4 HP tool post grinder and a 1/2HP, with lots of wheels and stones.
Sometimes Ebay is good.
We might be looking to get rid of the 1/2HP though, it's big.

I know what you mean about cutting stitch/slot rings without some sort of "live-tooling". It can be a pain.
You can always just use a router or a dremel with a long 1/16 or 1/8 bit for cutoff.

The cross slide DOES NOT MOVE UNDER POWER, no way Jose.
I do it by hand, slow and steady.

Jer, i assure you that it is "real".
It works fine.
I don't plan on mounting it on the lathe any time soon, but when i do, i'll be sure to post it.

Thanks,

Jon