Predator Pool Table

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think they were wrong . Even with no cloth, I saw a hard hit ball that should have not gone in.
It's that cupping at the end rail that swallows the ball imo.
I think the pocket angles were too wide which would cause balls to rattle.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I think they were wrong . Even with no cloth, I saw a hard hit ball that should have not gone in.
It's that cupping at the end rail that swallows the ball imo.
I've been hunting for that pocket pic I think Karl Boyes posted with a couple of balls in it. Was hoping to see this cupping.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
So in my hunt I did find this example of "rattle" but in imo the shot was a miss.
5.png

This is after contact with the point so it appears to be a bit more 'in' then the shot actually was.
6.png


The above was in Rack#4 of the Sossei - Capito match
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So in my hunt I did find this example of "rattle" but in imo the shot was a miss.
View attachment 598813
This is after contact with the point so it appears to be a bit more 'in' then the shot actually was.
View attachment 598812

The above was in Rack#4 of the Sossei - Capito match
Good pictures, thanks for posting. I don’t see any rounding of the pocket face at least from these pictures.
Ps I’ll be the first to say most pictures of tables are deceiving simply due to the nature of photography.
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
A smart farmer don't lead his horses to water, when he turn the water on to fill the water bucket, the horses come running!!!

And if you lead them to water you won't have to go outside in the middle of winter to fill the bucket.

Smarter not harder ;)
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So in my hunt I did find this example of "rattle" but in imo the shot was a miss.
View attachment 598813
This is after contact with the point so it appears to be a bit more 'in' then the shot actually was.
View attachment 598812

The above was in Rack#4 of the Sossei - Capito match
These pictures also do a good job showing how cleanly the pocket faces align with the rubber pocket. No 1/2” mismatch like on many tables out there (all brands). However, does this mean this table can’t be ordered with bigger pockets?
 

Chili Palmer

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Amazes me the number of twelve-year-olds on this site. You just keep picking and picking and picking. I'll put it this way... If I was looking for advice on the construction or an assembly of a pool table, Glenn would be the man.... In spite of any of his failings. I would take his advice long before I would most of the pool cue jockeys on this website. Get it?

Now back to the table. I did see two examples of pocket rattle on wpc highlights. And those were so badly hit, they should never even got near the pocket. I seen no balls coming back out of pocket. But just because it didn't happen at that particular tournament doesn't mean it's not going to happen. I've watched many, many tournaments where no balls were spit back out of a Diamond pocket.

From what I seen, the Predator tables played way too easy for a professional event... Especially for what was supposed to been a world-class event.

I 100% respect his knowledge of tables, this is a respect thing, give it and you'll get it ;) But I think he and I are over that.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hug no ones nut sac. If you re-read my paragraph I said DESPITE HIS FAILINGS. I don't follow Glenn like I'm some kind of groupie, so I don't know what all of his opinions are on all tables. But I don't recall him bad-mouthing a well set-up Gold Crown.

The whole point I was making is there isn't a single person that has commented so far that's even seen a Predator pool table in person, let alone played on one, and think they know everything about it because they seen one on TV.

I'm not against Predator products. I just don't think they've hit a home run with this table yet. But, like everybody else on here, I'm only basing that opinion on one tournament. The future may change my mind.

Okay. At least the discussions back on track where it should be. It's not that the Predator table wasn't accepting badly hit shots. It was that the Predator table was ACCEPTING badly hit shots. From many of the players. The one ball I seen rattle hit the cushion A diamond and a half up. Of course it shouldn't have dropped. It should never even made it in a jaw of the pocket. But it did. I will try to find that match when I get time

And this table is very very young. I assure you at some point in time you're going to see balls get a ejected right back out just like with any other table on the market.

I mean really... We've seen one tournament played with these tables. How many tournaments where played on Gold Crowns, Diamond, Olhousen, Rasson, or any other tournament table on the market before an rejected ball was seen?
I don’t know as much about table construction as some on this thread do, but I do know enough to know that the issue with the overly forgiving pockets on this Predator table, even though they were 4-1/4 inches at the mouth, can be easily solved by either 1) increasing the pocket facing angle in the throat of the pockets and/or 2) increasing the depth of the shelves of the pockets, by decreasing the radius cut outs on the slates. As pocket mouth measurements get tighter, the depth of the pocket shelf/throat automatically decreases. Either should be an easy fix for future tables they produce, if they so desire.

Perhaps they could produce two options for this table. The one as played on last week at the world championships for home use and pool rooms where more forgiving pockets would be desired, and an improved tighter version with deeper throats for pro tournament competition.
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Wow, that shelf is really shallow too.
That pink ball should have not gone in .
I'll bow to the more knowledgable folks on this one but I'd lean toward the shallow shelf for the ease of how the tables played.

That pink Albin hit I think was at the limit of entry angle vs speed.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So in my hunt I did find this example of "rattle" but in imo the shot was a miss.
View attachment 598813
This is after contact with the point so it appears to be a bit more 'in' then the shot actually was.
View attachment 598812

The above was in Rack#4 of the Sossei - Capito match
I see no problem with that ball rattling in that photo. The right edge of that 3 ball appears to be about an inch off the side cushion point when it makes contact. At pocket speed, it probably will go in, but shot at a harder pace, it like wouldn’t / shouldn’t.
 
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buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t know as much about table construction as some on this thread do, but I do know enough to know that the issue with the overly forgiving pockets on this Predator table, even though they were 4-1/4 inches at the mouth, can be easily solved by either 1) increasing the pocket facing angle in the throat of the pockets and/or 2) increasing the depth of the shelves of the pockets, by decreasing the radius cut outs on the slates. As pocket mouth measurements get tighter, the depth of the pocket shelf/throat automatically decreases. Either should be an easy fix for future tables they produce, if they so desire.

Perhaps they could produce two options for this table. The one as played on last week at the world championships for home use and pool rooms where more forgiving pockets would be desired, and an improved tighter version with deeper throats for pro tournament competition.
Im with the others and I think it was the depth of the shelves more then angle or opening measurements.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Agreed... but lets remember who came in stomping his feet with his horribly obvious biased opinion and stated that the WPC (predator/Sam, or presumably more improtant to him, non-Diamond) tables played poorly with 'Olhausen rattle' and supposedly spat balls back out during the event. You may prefer to hug his nuts but I don't have a problem pointing out that he's making unsubstanitated claims against a competitor's product, and ducking when called on it. The man is easily the most inflammatory self serving poster on this forum. I'm amazed at what some of you are willing to let slide. Get it?

So to the actual topic. So we have two cases of pocket rattle resulting from poorly hit balls. I don't think we should condem the table/pocket for not allowing a poorly hit ball to drop. Now we still don't have any evidence of a ball being ejected after being cleanly pocketed. ...but just because we have no evidence doesn't mean it isn't possible...? Ok, I'm always willing to accept possibilities without precedent. But that must also mean although you personally haven't seen it happen on a Diamond it's possible as well...? I mean, zero evidence is zero evidence right..?

I think we all can agree the tables could/should have been tougher and that would be more becoming of a World Championship in terms of a test of skill. In the end though it's about entertainment value, and I haven't yet seen complaints about the packages being put together. Only that players considered weaker were able to succeed if the elite drop the ball, (or in this case didn't drop it).

There are people on this site, myself for example who would never allow Glen near their house or table because of his behavior here on this site. He is known to do great work but I do not think it is big secret he is not so good with scheduling either. It works for him I guess.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Predator may have taken a similar approach that bonus ball did for the pockets. Small mouth, but favorable facing angles. This would require a fairly accurate hit, but the ball would rarely be spit out if it got within the points.

I personally didn’t see this table as easier than most other major events with brand new cloth. Every single event there is someone complaining that the ball hit the rail one or two diamonds from the pocket snd it still fell.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Predator may have taken a similar approach that bonus ball did for the pockets. Small mouth, but favorable facing angles. This would require a fairly accurate hit, but the ball would rarely be spit out if it got within the points.

I personally didn’t see this table as easier than most other major events with brand new cloth. Every single event there is someone complaining that the ball hit the rail one or two diamonds from the pocket snd it still fell.
Even extremely tight pockets play considerably more forgiving the first or second day after installation of new cloth. By 5-6 days from installation, they’ll play considerably tougher, and after six months to one year, they’ll play brutally tough.

Of course, no pro tournaments are ever contested on anything other than newly installed cloth, so they don’t have to deal with it like we do, on tables in some pool rooms that have extremely tight pockets and worn cloth.

On the flip side of that, predicting how a cue ball will react coming off a cushion to spins and speeds, and how difficult it is to draw the cue ball a precise distance on new cloth, and how those playing characteristics will change virtually every day on a table over the course of a week long major tournament, is an added difficulty factor that pro players have certainly had to adjust to, but most of us only have to face for a very limited time frame every year or two, when new cloth is installed on the tables in our home pool rooms.
 
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TxBullDog

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Most likely payed generous because the cloth was new and didn't have the chance to break in. They mentioned on the broadcast the corners were 4.25".
Table is very easy and pockets seem bigger then 4.5” . My friend played on the table and said it is much easier then a diamond pro cut and the equipment is way to easy for top players. He played in the WPC Daniel… He said it gave many players a chance against the top pro on predator table and that is why the final eight had several weaker players. Hopefully Predator can make the table more of a challenge since they have a deal with matchroom now…
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Table is very easy and pockets seem bigger then 4.5” . My friend played on the table and said it is much easier then a diamond pro cut and the equipment is way to easy for top players. He played in the WPC Daniel… He said it gave many players a chance against the top pro on predator table and that is why the final eight had several weaker players. Hopefully Predator can make the table more of a challenge since they have a deal with matchroom now…
A shallow shelf makes the pockets play bigger.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Table is very easy and pockets seem bigger then 4.5” . My friend played on the table and said it is much easier then a diamond pro cut and the equipment is way to easy for top players. He played in the WPC Daniel… He said it gave many players a chance against the top pro on predator table and that is why the final eight had several weaker players. Hopefully Predator can make the table more of a challenge since they have a deal with matchroom now…
You would think they would have made those needed adjustments before using the table for a world championship, as opposed to after.
 
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