Obviously. When you're one of the favorites every time you show up to an event, top heavy payouts are exactly what you want.
Predator Wisconsin 10 Ball
- Thread starter Joe_Jaguar
- Start date
As Tin Man made clear, pool players fight hard for their money and, on average, must view each tournament entered as an investment. Few pool players are the type that pay real money just to mix it up with the big guns. Greg Sullivan understands this, which is why entry fees are typically about $100 at Derby City.
If I were a Fargo 750, my thinking would go something like this:
There are five events on this tour this year, so my expenses will be roughly $5,000 to participate. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever reach a semifinal, but maybe, even though it won't be easy, I can get to the quarterfinal round once. I'll also need to get to stage 2 two other times if I am to break even for the five events. I'll do well to break even and, unless I reach a semifinal at some point, I've got no real chance of earning any real money. This tour is a real crapshoot for me, and if I'm going to make money in America-based events, I probably need to look elsewhere.
If I were a Fargo 750, my thinking would go something like this:
There are five events on this tour this year, so my expenses will be roughly $5,000 to participate. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever reach a semifinal, but maybe, even though it won't be easy, I can get to the quarterfinal round once. I'll also need to get to stage 2 two other times if I am to break even for the five events. I'll do well to break even and, unless I reach a semifinal at some point, I've got no real chance of earning any real money. This tour is a real crapshoot for me, and if I'm going to make money in America-based events, I probably need to look elsewhere.
My understanding is that the thing with the patch last year did turn off some of the players. I do think there were players who jumped on it as their "cause for the day" and blew it out of proportion.
I have not heard anything about covering up patches or not providing players with the same level of media coverage.
On a slightly related note, I had a chance to talk to Karim during the Tucson event and he was telling me about some of the plans they are working on. He mentioned they were working on co-sponsored events with two different cue companies. I was a little shocked at this news and he mentioned the belief that competition makes all of the companies try harder.
With that being said though, Predator is ruffling some feathers out there, and it does seem like we are going down the PBT / PCA road again.
I think the 750 in the position you described should maybe play in the event that is closest and least costly to him/her and place some value on the experience gained.
This tour isn't going to collapse for the lack of players and it's not the promoters responsibility to try to reach down to lesser players. I would be surprised if there isn't a waiting list to play in each event.
Predator and CSI CEOs are astute businessmen. Just think about it, this entire series will cost them less than a minute of commercial time for the superbowl and they are getting a lot of publicity to a targeted audience. What more can they ask for?
I don't think there are many who'll pay up just for the experience, but there will always be some. Whether the event producers can fill the fields will be just a small factor in whether they succeed. It is not cheap to produce this tour. Yes, it's less than the cost of a Super Bowl ad, and it's also less than the US national debt, but the amount invested is not small in the context of the size of the market for pool and the number of purchasers of pool equipment. It is not small in the context of the marketing budgets of CSI/Predator.
As for the business side:
An American tour that doesn't attract America's most elite players and in which Americans have little success won't attract much viewership or attention and, if that happens, both CSI and Predator will likely walk away from the project whenever their first contract runs out. Your suggestion that they'll necessarily stay the course because they have deep pockets is one that I often heard during the IPT days. I argued it then and will repeat it now: That's not how astute businessmen, to use your terminology, operate. In fact, it's just the opposite, for it is the astute businessman that walks away from a losing venture faster than anybody else. Trudeau abandoned ship after a year back in 2006-7.
Maybe this tour will succeed. I hope it will and wish everybody associated with it the very best of fortune, but I'm concerned that this tour will struggle if America's most elite cueists choose not to participate. So far, they are not showing up --- in fact, only two of the top 35 Americans based on Fargo are playing the Wisconsin Open. Hope they'll show up soon.
Yes, but KT was a successful and wealthy businessman who succeeded and stayed the course in many of his ventures and was wise enough to walk away from many a losing venture. I'm suggesting that the best businessmen all have this very positive attribute. There is, of course, no parallel of any kind between the emergence/sustenance of this new tour and the IPT experiment.
No question, some of the ventures in which he succeeded had misrepresentation at their core, but this is not the point. All good businessmen know when to pull the plug when a venture falls short of expectations, and it's part of what make them good businessmen.
I'm sorry but KT is the last person i'd have used as an example of a 'businessman'. He started with credit-card scams as early as 1990. He was constantly in the crosshirs of state and Federal agents from then til he went to prison. He does get out soon, maybe some of the people he stiffed in the IPT might get paid. Yeah right. Total douchebag.
Remember that they run in parallel with another CSI event (State Championships) at the same venue so I don't believe production costs is that humongous. They don't have to deal with networks etc. to carry the stream. It's on YouTube and that might also be a source of revenue for them. Like you I am rooting for them to succeed and I believe they will. Just look at the professional way they are running the tournament, bracket and all. Everything is done with precision.
Looks like the remaining matches for this evening are:
8:00 - J Ouschan vs J Bustamante
10:00 - Seaman vs Hohmann
8:00 - J Ouschan vs J Bustamante
10:00 - Seaman vs Hohmann
Jasmin vs Joven should be a good one.
One big difference between Karim and KT in my opinion is that KT had some plan where I believe he was hoping to recoup everything he had invested and a lot more. I think if Karim could break event on this tour, he would be a happy man. Karim is part of our industry and part of what he is doing is to help build the game. Sure, he wants to make money but that isn't the only thing he is trying to do.
I don't believe KT saw pool as anything other than another way he could make money.
Agreed 100%.
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Scrunge19
Registered
The format and the payout structure combine to dissuade some portion of the player base from entering, across all skill levels. What that percentage is and whether or not this tour can succeed long term are yet to be determined.
Some of the top pros are avoiding this tour because they feel the format removes some of their competitive edge over weaker players and can lead to more variance in results. That's obviously less of a deterrent for the low or mid range pros as it does provide them some help in staying competitive. But when you factor in the payout structure only proving profitable to the top 8, it's understandable to see why players across all skill levels may be wary of supporting this. Essentially, the pros are capable of losing to an inferior opponent and falling outside of the top 8 while the low/mid pros will struggle to string together a consistent enough performance to even make it to the top 8. So you end up trimming players from both ends when you look at the overall population of who will participate in events like this.
Some of the top pros are avoiding this tour because they feel the format removes some of their competitive edge over weaker players and can lead to more variance in results. That's obviously less of a deterrent for the low or mid range pros as it does provide them some help in staying competitive. But when you factor in the payout structure only proving profitable to the top 8, it's understandable to see why players across all skill levels may be wary of supporting this. Essentially, the pros are capable of losing to an inferior opponent and falling outside of the top 8 while the low/mid pros will struggle to string together a consistent enough performance to even make it to the top 8. So you end up trimming players from both ends when you look at the overall population of who will participate in events like this.