Predator Wisconsin 10 Ball

Delighted to see the return of Kaci to the US. He wasn't at Derby City, an event just ten days in the rearview mirror.

Good luck to all these fine players.
 
Stream should be starting in a hour. Eastern times...

11:00 Gorst vs Kaci
1:00 Kang Lee vs Lunda
3:00 Garcia vs Styer

6:00 J Bustamante vs De Ruyter
8:00 Atencio vs Souto
10:00 TBD?

Bracket: https://usproseries.fargorate.com/bracket/9

Event: https://www.playcsipool.com/2022-wisconsin-open.html

Stream: https://www.youtube.com/c/WorldBilliardTV


Pathetic showing by US players.
Really not much of a field, with just 5 of the Top 25 based on Fargo entered. By comparison, the recently completed Derby City Classic had 14 of the Top 25 pros by Fargo rate.

Name of Fargo Top 25 PlayerPlayed at DerbyPlaying Wisconsin
Joshua FillerYesNo
Shane Van BoeningYesNo
Fedor GorstYesYes
Jayson ShawYesNo
Francisco Sanchez RuizYesNo
Dennis OrcolloNoNo
Jung Lin ChangNoNo
Eklent KaciNoYes
Carlo BiadoYesNo
Aloysius YappNoYes
Albin OuschanYesNo
Alex PagulayanYesNo
Niels FeijenNoNo
Naoyuki OiYesNo
Wojciech SzewczykNoNo
Alex KazakisYesYes
Johann ChuaNoNo
Wiktor ZielinskiYesNo
James AranasNoNo
Mario HeYesYes
David AlcaideYesNo
Mark GrayNoNo
Mike DechaineNoNo
Sky WoodwardYesNo
Jeffrey IgnacioNoNo
Fargo Top 25 Entrants145

Hope I got the chart right! Like many, I hope that down the road this event series, which pays out big prize money, will attract truly elite fields. Right now, however, the five straightest shooters in the world are Filler, Gorst, SVB, Shaw, JL Chang, and just one of them is playing this week in Wisconsin.

I have no opinion on which players should play in which events. They are professionals with busy travel schedules who can pick and choose. On the other hand, I would like to see this new event series succeed in a big way, so the absence of most of the elite in this field is a red flag.

The greatest concern is the failure of the Top Americans to participate. None of the top thirteen American pros based on Fargo rating are playing Wisconsin, with fourteenth highest rated American Tyler Styer (760) the top entrant.

This fan is looking for better for this new event series. CSI and Predator deserve better!
 
Really not much of a field, with just 5 of the Top 25 based on Fargo entered. By comparison, the recently completed Derby City Classic had 14 of the Top 25 pros by Fargo rate.

Name of Fargo Top 25 PlayerPlayed at DerbyPlaying Wisconsin
Joshua FillerYesNo
Shane Van BoeningYesNo
Fedor GorstYesYes
Jayson ShawYesNo
Francisco Sanchez RuizYesNo
Dennis OrcolloNoNo
Jung Lin ChangNoNo
Eklent KaciNoYes
Carlo BiadoYesNo
Aloysius YappNoYes
Albin OuschanYesNo
Alex PagulayanYesNo
Niels FeijenNoNo
Naoyuki OiYesNo
Wojciech SzewczykNoNo
Alex KazakisYesYes
Johann ChuaNoNo
Wiktor ZielinskiYesNo
James AranasNoNo
Mario HeYesYes
David AlcaideYesNo
Mark GrayNoNo
Mike DechaineNoNo
Sky WoodwardYesNo
Jeffrey IgnacioNoNo
Fargo Top 25 Entrants145
Also a horrible showing by Americans on the top 25 list!
 
Predator players play in these, because their entry fee is covered I believe. Even Albin and Joshua have expressed frustration with the format. The format paired with how Predator conducts itself within the industry is why a number of players prefer to avoid these.
 
Predator players play in these, because their entry fee is covered I believe. Even Albin and Joshua have expressed frustration with the format. The format paired with how Predator conducts itself within the industry is why a number of players prefer to avoid these.
I get the format but just what conduct would stop them from playing? Curious here.
 
If you look at the brackets, 10 PM matches (9 CST) will be all winner side matches.
Yeah. The brackets also don't show one being set for the 10Pm round either. There are two from 1st round left at that point plus a few from second round.
 
FYI, it is being broadcast live on "For the Fans" television (FTF), as I type this. I have it on the big screen TV, in my living room.

I get FTF TV on the Samsung streaming channels.
 
I get that the format is not to many of the players liking, but why not give it a shot anyway? It is strange that US players sit out tournaments while players from other countries travel all the way to play here.

Is there any chance that Predator will change the format in the future?
 
I get that the format is not to many of the players liking, but why not give it a shot anyway? It is strange that US players sit out tournaments while players from other countries travel all the way to play here.

Is there any chance that Predator will change the format in the future?
I'm with you on this, but I think there's another issue beyond the format and it's the super top-heavy payout structure. Expenses per event (travel + lodging + entry fees + other expenses) tend to be about $1,000 per player for an America-based competitor.

At the Arizona Open in January, the only players that cashed for more than $1,000 were those finishing in the top 8. The 48 players that didn't reach Stage 2 got nothing. Those finishing 9/16 got $1,000 and broke about even. If only 8 players in a field of 64 make money net of expense, it's very weak action for all but the elite. The prize fund at the Arizona Open was $75,000 and $67,000 (roughly 90%) of it was paid to the top 8. Over the years, I've tended to favor top heavy payout structures, but this takes things too far. In all my years around pro pool, the only more "top heavy" payout structure I've seen came at the winner-take-all Challenge of Champions events.

The main reason the best American players should play is to support the best new tour in America in many years. If the top Americans stay on the sidelines while Asia continues to struggle with COVID, they will be relying on Europe to keep these fields elite and this tour alive. It really shouldn't come down to that, but it might.

Prior to 2022, American-based events offered just a few really big ($15,000+) paydays: 1) the US Open 9-ball, 2) Derby City, and 3) the International. This new tour, by adding five high prize events, has brought us from three potential big paydays to eight in America. This tour was intended to offer a big opportunity for American players to make an income from pool without flying overseas. If the top Americans choose not to try to capitalize on that opportunity, the opportunity may vanish one day, and they will have themselves to blame.

CSI and Predator have really stepped up to the plate with this new event series. Hopefully, somewhere down the road, the most elite players will take notice and support them to the max.
 
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I'm with you on this, but I think there's another issue beyond the format and it's the super top-heavy payout structure. Expenses per event (travel + lodging + entry fees + other expenses) tend to be about $1,000 per player for an America-based competitor.

At the Arizona Open in January, the only players that cashed for more than $1,000 were those finishing in the top 8. The 48 players that didn't reach Stage 2 got nothing. Those finishing 9/16 got $1,000 and broke about even. If only 8 players in a field of 64 make money net of expense, it's very weak action for all but the elite. The prize fund at the Arizona Open was $75,000 and $67,000 (roughly 90%) of it was paid to the top 8. Over the years, I've tended to favor top heavy payout structures, but this takes things too far. In all my years around pro pool, the only more "top heavy" payout structure I've seen came at the winner-take-all Challenge of Champions events.

The main reason the best American players should play is to support the best new tour in America in many years. If the top Americans stay on the sidelines while Asia continues to struggle with COVID, they will be relying on Europe to keep these fields elite and this tour alive. It really shouldn't come down to that, but it might.

Prior to 2022, American-based events offered just a few really big ($15,000+) paydays: 1) the US Open 9-ball, 2) Derby City, and 3) the International. This new tour, by adding five high prize events, has brought us from three potential big paydays to eight in America. This tour was intended to offer a big opportunity for American players to make an income from pool without flying overseas. If the top Americans choose not to try to capitalize on that opportunity, the opportunity may vanish one day, and they will have themselves to blame.

CSI and Predator have really stepped up to the plate with this new event series. Hopefully, somewhere down the road, the most elite players will take notice and support them to the max.
I didn't know the payouts were so top heavy.

I guess the reluctance of many US players indicates a lot of confidence to be successful against the world's best, which is somewhat of a sad commentary on the state of pro pool in the US right now.
 
I didn't know the payouts were so top heavy.

I guess the reluctance of many US players indicates a lot of confidence to be successful against the world's best, which is somewhat of a sad commentary on the state of pro pool in the US right now.
Top heavy and a 'somewhat' funky format. Can't blame them really. Each player has to do what he thinks makes $$ sense.
 
I know some of the top US players don't travel often. When people get on them saying "You should play that event!" the only fair response is "Do you want to back me?" If you don't like backing them, why would they like playing?

I know. For the love of the challenge, and the opportunity to grow by playing the world's best players. But going into debt to run the roads for years is like taking out large student loans and spending years for a theater arts degree. It's not really fair for us to feel disappointment in our top players because they don't want to sacrifice their lives pursuing a dead end. Anyone on these forums could also make a run at it right now. Sign up is open. You'll get better. Go for it.

I understand it's kind of sad we don't have top US players representing in these fields. On a national level it would be nice if we could muster up some players who could compete profitably. But individually I understand each and every decision to sit out. Most people wouldn't go to their jobs if they had to pay for the privilidge, and that is pro pool for all but several of the world's best. I don't think of it as doubt in their abilities. I think it is the ability to grasp and accept the reality.
 
I'm with you on this, but I think there's another issue beyond the format and it's the super top-heavy payout structure. Expenses per event (travel + lodging + entry fees + other expenses) tend to be about $1,000 per player for an America-based competitor.

At the Arizona Open in January, the only players that cashed for more than $1,000 were those finishing in the top 8. The 48 players that didn't reach Stage 2 got nothing. Those finishing 9/16 got $1,000 and broke about even. If only 8 players in a field of 64 make money net of expense, it's very weak action for all but the elite. The prize fund at the Arizona Open was $75,000 and $67,000 (roughly 90%) of it was paid to the top 8. Over the years, I've tended to favor top heavy payout structures, but this takes things too far. In all my years around pro pool, the only more "top heavy" payout structure I've seen came at the winner-take-all Challenge of Champions events.
[...]

Another factor is the entry fee. I believe it is $350 here, which means more than two thirds of the prize fund ($52,600 of the $75,000) is added $$. That's a relatively modest entry fee for an event that's $25K to win. You could make the entry fee $475 and add $1,000 to the 9-16 payout to make them $2,000. That would be fine. But keeping the entry fee modest is also kind of a player-friendly move.
 
I know some of the top US players don't travel often. When people get on them saying "You should play that event!" the only fair response is "Do you want to back me?" If you don't like backing them, why would they like playing?

I know. For the love of the challenge, and the opportunity to grow by playing the world's best players. But going into debt to run the roads for years is like taking out large student loans and spending years for a theater arts degree. It's not really fair for us to feel disappointment in our top players because they don't want to sacrifice their lives pursuing a dead end. Anyone on these forums could also make a run at it right now. Sign up is open. You'll get better. Go for it.

I understand it's kind of sad we don't have top US players representing in these fields. On a national level it would be nice if we could muster up some players who could compete profitably. But individually I understand each and every decision to sit out. Most people wouldn't go to their jobs if they had to pay for the privilidge, and that is pro pool for all but several of the world's best. I don't think of it as doubt in their abilities. I think it is the ability to grasp and accept the reality.
Fantastic post that properly underscores the poor economics inherent in such a top-heavy payout event. The deck is so heavily stacked against you and other highly capable but not elite players in these events. Like I said, it's weak action and whoever decided on this prize structure should have foreseen that it would scare away many worthy participants. like yourself.
 
I played in a W. coast event about 6 yrs ago finishing in the top 8.
I think the prize funds were about 15K total, 10K of it were for the top 3.
Age old problem/concern with event$$$$$$$.
Lower level good players don't enjoy finishing just in the money all the time, or paying that extra day or two room rent only to just fini$h at best.
You feel like your paying the pros wages.
That's why major pro events should be best 3 outta five single elim.
Helps allot with the nut if your out early, allows players to match up, allows tables to open up, and allows the weekend crowd to hit some balls on a Saturday night.
 
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