What are some methods for soaking and pressing a triangle? How long? What do you soak in? do you sand off coating on glue side before or after? Any suggestions welcome. thanks. My goal is a good durable tip for my bar beater sneaky that i can break and play with.
Pressing a Triangle Tip
- Thread starter or1pkt
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In the 80's Leonard Bludworth would take LePro tips and compress them using lacquer-based sanding sealer. It was a pretty simple process; the sanding sealer was thinned down to be quite watery and he had a rather clever press that would do multiple tips in a batch
The press consisted of two 3/4" steel plates that bolted together at several points. Between the bolts were ~ 0.550 diameter holes drilled entirely through one plate and part way through the second. The holes in the outer half of one plate were tapped for bolts, which were used to compress the tip from the back (flat) side only.
So the divot left by the original drill bit formed a sort of crude "dome" on the top of the compressed tip and the sidewalls of the holes limited the diameter the tip could squash out to. He soaked the tips for some period of time - the solvent nature of the thinned sealer easily dissolved the tip's factory coating - and then put them in his press and (supposedly) used a torque wrench to tighten the compression bolts to a specific number.
The the entire assembly went into an electric oven to bake off the VOC's while the tips were still under pressure. The tips were quite popular and he sold the shit out of them... until the day came when he had an oven fire and (supposedly) "burned his shop down". Shortly thereafter he went into the cuemaking business. I never did get the big bunch of tips he was supposed to trade me for some long forgotten tool I sent him. Damn those pesky oven fires.
TW
The press consisted of two 3/4" steel plates that bolted together at several points. Between the bolts were ~ 0.550 diameter holes drilled entirely through one plate and part way through the second. The holes in the outer half of one plate were tapped for bolts, which were used to compress the tip from the back (flat) side only.
So the divot left by the original drill bit formed a sort of crude "dome" on the top of the compressed tip and the sidewalls of the holes limited the diameter the tip could squash out to. He soaked the tips for some period of time - the solvent nature of the thinned sealer easily dissolved the tip's factory coating - and then put them in his press and (supposedly) used a torque wrench to tighten the compression bolts to a specific number.
The the entire assembly went into an electric oven to bake off the VOC's while the tips were still under pressure. The tips were quite popular and he sold the shit out of them... until the day came when he had an oven fire and (supposedly) "burned his shop down". Shortly thereafter he went into the cuemaking business. I never did get the big bunch of tips he was supposed to trade me for some long forgotten tool I sent him. Damn those pesky oven fires.
TW
Tips are all about hardness and unless you use hard tips, as you play with them they compress until they reach compression refusal.
I think chrome tanned triangles are the most consistent med tip out there. There are some bad ones lurking in the box sometimes and they are spongy and can sometimes blow out when you shape them. When you run into a bad one throw it away and put a good one on
Many cue makers of consequence use them exclusively. Here in Chicago Ray Schuler and Joe Gold made them their go to standard tip. Not a bad choice for sure.
Pressing tips is not something I do or care to do.
Rick
I think chrome tanned triangles are the most consistent med tip out there. There are some bad ones lurking in the box sometimes and they are spongy and can sometimes blow out when you shape them. When you run into a bad one throw it away and put a good one on
Many cue makers of consequence use them exclusively. Here in Chicago Ray Schuler and Joe Gold made them their go to standard tip. Not a bad choice for sure.
Pressing tips is not something I do or care to do.
Rick
There's absolutely no legitimate argument that treating and/or pressing tips makes a difference. People have been doing it ever since leather was first introduced to the front of cues. If it's a bogus hogwash notion, then there has been 300 years of fools, to include most of the biggest names in cue making. The question isn't why anybody would believe a .$40 tip can be soaked in something & become magically better. The question is why wouldn't somebody believe it?
It's nothing to do with magic. It's science. The simplest formula I know of is milk, but even that has more than meets the eye. Milk contains a protein called casein. The amount differs from one species to another, but all milk has it. Horse hide also contains it. It's commonly used in glue and food binders. What does that mean for tips? It reinforces the leather fibers, not unlike what we do with acrylic stabilizing woods. Reinforcement means increased stability, which translates into increased consistency. It's science, not magic. Many of us have stepped out of the casein box and looked into modern binders. I personally use a man-made chemical. Mr. Wayne referenced a builder who used a common woodworking chemical. I know of one guy who uses ammonia. There must be thousands of recipes, with milk likely being the oldest & most known. Point being, it works, and works very well. Like anything else, it takes a learning curve. You're likely not going to get the results you want on first try. Keep at it and you'll figure it out.
It's nothing to do with magic. It's science. The simplest formula I know of is milk, but even that has more than meets the eye. Milk contains a protein called casein. The amount differs from one species to another, but all milk has it. Horse hide also contains it. It's commonly used in glue and food binders. What does that mean for tips? It reinforces the leather fibers, not unlike what we do with acrylic stabilizing woods. Reinforcement means increased stability, which translates into increased consistency. It's science, not magic. Many of us have stepped out of the casein box and looked into modern binders. I personally use a man-made chemical. Mr. Wayne referenced a builder who used a common woodworking chemical. I know of one guy who uses ammonia. There must be thousands of recipes, with milk likely being the oldest & most known. Point being, it works, and works very well. Like anything else, it takes a learning curve. You're likely not going to get the results you want on first try. Keep at it and you'll figure it out.
I can honestly say Eric is on to something, but unless you have tried a lot of different hitting cues and had the pleasure of shooting with one of his older cues with his " Sugartips" you wont really understand. Also my father shoots with one of his 2013 players and I believe thats Eric's tip, not the ones he brought back from Korea, this tip also feels very good.
Tips I have played with. Moori original, Ultra layered soft medium and hard, Kamui medium and soft, Triangles pressed and soaked and normal, elkmaster pressed and soaked and normal, lepro, Onyx, emerald, and sniper, G2, and super pro... Think I may be missing some but thats besides the point. The point is that these tips I've listed are all pretty popular tips and honestly the best playing and feeling are Eric's non layered tips.
I've had such great results with Triangles that I don't understand why people spend so much on laminated tips. I've played with Moori, Kamui, Super Pro, Hercules, and Porper. The Porper was my favorite, but they're 10x the price of a Triangle.
Paul,
I agree with you. People are always searching for a Panacea concerning tips I have noticed. Kamui has branded themselves as a high priced commodity with some people equating high price to high quality. Not saying Kamui is not a great tip.
If someone wants a hard tip I suggest a brown water buffalo. But alas many choose to pay more money anyway.
I love the triangles also and other than a few blow out type rejects here and there they are very consistent. I don't press them or any other tip and just let nature take its corse
Concerning the tip compressing as it is played with. When I crown them with a razor and the end feels soft or expands, I cut it off and put a new one on. There are always a few of these in a box but that's how it goes when dealing with organic material.
JMO,
Rick
there is nothing wrong with a triangle tip. I've been usung them 25 years and counting
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Didn't say there was anything wrong with them........... it's just that soaking tmem in something does not make them magically better.................... I mark it right up there with big foot, popping corn with cell phones, and telling fortunes with chicken bones.......................
Kim
I don't feel It makes them better, but back when I was still making them up that way, I had received feedback from people that felt It made them more consistent, therefore It could be perceived that way by some. I have heard that unpressed starts out softer feeling, but hardens over time, as with many type of tips. This I already knew, but that was the feedback that I was getting from some customers.
Some people didn't like certain types of tips because of that change, as where others wanted that feel from the start, so milk duds, pressing, and what not helped provide that for them. I use to make milk duds from about 3 different type of tips, but now days I just recommend spending a little more for a more consistent tip in their preferred hardness level, but even some of the tips that cost more act in a similar way, and hardness changes as they are compressed from normal play..
Some people didn't like certain types of tips because of that change, as where others wanted that feel from the start, so milk duds, pressing, and what not helped provide that for them. I use to make milk duds from about 3 different type of tips, but now days I just recommend spending a little more for a more consistent tip in their preferred hardness level, but even some of the tips that cost more act in a similar way, and hardness changes as they are compressed from normal play..
Elk Masters are blue and very soft. Sumos are nearly black and very hard. LePros are medium and chocolate brown. Triangles are grey and med-hard. All are made from the same water buffalo leather, so why are they so vastly different? Simple answer, SOAKING.
Kamui is a leading manufacturer of high tech. layered tips. They offer originals, blacks, and clears. All three varieties are then offered in varying hardness. What makes the difference? Simple answer, SOAKING.
Whether the leather is tanned before being soaked in the solution that gives its particular characteristics, or else the tanning process itself gives those characteristics, at some point the tip's character is defined by what it was soaked in. That can't be argued. If you have a favorite tip that you believe is "better" than all the rest, then you kinda have to attribute it to how & what it was soaked in. Prefer it the way the manufacturer produced it or else modify it to fit your specific needs. At some point it has been soaked in something at least once to give desired results. Soaking tips to give them a particular character is a matter of fact.
Kamui is a leading manufacturer of high tech. layered tips. They offer originals, blacks, and clears. All three varieties are then offered in varying hardness. What makes the difference? Simple answer, SOAKING.
Whether the leather is tanned before being soaked in the solution that gives its particular characteristics, or else the tanning process itself gives those characteristics, at some point the tip's character is defined by what it was soaked in. That can't be argued. If you have a favorite tip that you believe is "better" than all the rest, then you kinda have to attribute it to how & what it was soaked in. Prefer it the way the manufacturer produced it or else modify it to fit your specific needs. At some point it has been soaked in something at least once to give desired results. Soaking tips to give them a particular character is a matter of fact.
It's not just soaking, it's the tanning process. If leather isn't tanned, it has zero long term durability. Tanning methods and chemicals vary greatly depending upon the end goal. But the bigger key is them all being pressed. The soaking allows the fibers in the leather to relax, so when pressed, the additional chemicals added will make the leather go through a bonding process. The pressure of the press along with the chemicals used will cause the tip to slightly heat up during this time as well.
It's always easier to modify something that already is made than attempting to create your own. Imagine if wanting a new tip meant you had to tan your own leather. Would have a million different ways to create a tip, just like there's already plenty of ways to modify your tip.
I believe in power of Milk Duds 
As well as other soaked tips I make of Triangles and some other brands. I've seen the results they bring, I know what such treatment is supposed to change in a way the tip plays and how to achieve it. I'm a believer not only because I've seen the changes, but some of my customers prefer soaked and pressed tips for a reason, I think.
As well as other soaked tips I make of Triangles and some other brands. I've seen the results they bring, I know what such treatment is supposed to change in a way the tip plays and how to achieve it. I'm a believer not only because I've seen the changes, but some of my customers prefer soaked and pressed tips for a reason, I think.This ^ was pretty much my point. The leather has to be soaked at least once before it can even become a tip in the first place.
it does tho