Private Pool Room/Social Clubs?

FSutton

FSutton

4 Rails!
Silver Member
:scratchhead:

So I've been wondering how do you guys think a private cue club/social club might do? Something small with maybe Diamond Pro Ams like 2 or 3 and maybe one Gold Crown IV. A small Bar, a nice TV for games, a few tables for card games etc. No Jukebox, no bangers, membership only. access open 24 hours a day (the bar would be on regular hours). Members pays dues maybe that would work. Sell day passes to others who want to come in. My father and I have been talking about doing this maybe in the Austin Area when we move there later this year. Dad would like to do a snooker table since there doesn't seem to be one in Austin and he loves a good golf game.

Any thoughts, ideas, input from the AZer's would be appreciated.

f
 
FSutton said:
:scratchhead:

So I've been wondering how do you guys think a private cue club/social club might do? Something small with maybe Diamond Pro Ams like 2 or 3 and maybe one Gold Crown IV. A small Bar, a nice TV for games, a few tables for card games etc. No Jukebox, no bangers, membership only. access open 24 hours a day (the bar would be on regular hours). Members pays dues maybe that would work. Sell day passes to others who want to come in. My father and I have been talking about doing this maybe in the Austin Area when we move there later this year. Dad would like to do a snooker table since there doesn't seem to be one in Austin and he loves a good golf game.

Any thoughts, ideas, input from the AZer's would be appreciated.

f
Click to expand...

A "for profit" business?

I have thought of just building a small pool & card room in the back corner of my lot -- not attached to the house. Members only like you said with BYOB. For "those" kinds of situations, I was thinking of using a security card system of some kind. It's a dream; but, what a dream!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing the comments you will get on this thread.
 
I've thought about this concept as well. Unfortunately I have no valuable input for you, but I'd think you'd want more tables to cover times when you have a lot of members around.
 
Well it would have to make money to pay the tables off eventually, pay the electric and water bill, garbage, cable, as well as a couple people who work there. I don't have it all figured out but I'd like to get it to work.
 
Funny you mentioned that...

I was a partner, then owner of a room in New England way back when...and I seriously considered what you are considering. Keep doing your homework and make sure that you can make a living at it.

Seems to me that you would need at least 8 tables...for tournaments etc...and to keep enough people coming to the club.

I don't know how old you are, but some of us old timers...especially from up north...remember the gazillions of social clubs that are now extinct...I suggest reading Bowling Alone by Robert D. Putnam...he gives an excellent treatment of how society has changed over time...how the sense of community is different...you might get some ideas that can help your vision of a social club.

You never know what will work until you try...I guess my main thought (besides being a little jealous) is make sure the money adds up to give you a decent profit.

Good luck.

Mike
 
O i'm going to do my homework I move to austin in july/august I will be on the pool scene for awhile and get to know everyone before I attempt something like this. The reason I said not so many tables is the bigger the space the more everything costs.. If I had it my way 5 9ft talbes diamond pro ams most likely. I've also talked to this company in France about building me a custom 5 x 10 heated slate pool table which I think would be cool. Of course it would be great to have a 6x12 snooker table and a billiard table. We'll see this is in it's infant stages right now.
 
If you could get a small bar in there, then you probably could make some money. However, you would have to check and see what the laws or price are on getting a liquor license. There may be special rules(which may help you) about liquor, since it is a private club. It sounds like it would be a great places to go. Pool, poker, liquor- what else is there?:D
There is a private club in Minneapolis that has some 3-cushion tables and one 9-foot Diamond, I believe. I think the members pretty much pay the rent together, and everyone has a key. Like you mentioned, you can pay for the day, if you know someone who is a member. Good luck!
 
I never owned a private club, but I did own a pool room. Frankly, I don't see this concept working, especially, as mentioned with only a few tables.

Just taking some quick general figures.... 1. Payroll, you will need at least two full time workers. Minimally payroll would be at least 6000 a month. Next rent, that would be minimally 3000 a month, next utilities, that would be about 2000 a month.

Now these basics are already over 130K a year without considering loan paybacks, maintenance costs ... etc

How much would annual membership be? Would you expect it all up front or take a risk that some members would not pay for all 12 months?

Even at 500 a yr per person, you would have to cultivate more than 250 members.

I don't think you couldn't charge full bar prices for booze or food since members would feel it should be discounted.

If you did get 2 or 3 hundred members (which I think is highly unlikely) you would have to accommodate them. 4 or 5 tables won't do that.

I'll also bet that as meeting the bills becomes more a worry, you would start getting sick of people sitting around playing free video games and cards while you suck wind.

I'd say simply open a room for the public with food and bar and try to make your rent 250 to 350 dollars a month per table.

So, If you had 12 tables ... 12x350=4200 a month plus utilities. Much more per month than that formula and IMO you will be working for the landlord.
 
FSutton said:
:scratchhead:

So I've been wondering how do you guys think a private cue club/social club might do? Something small with maybe Diamond Pro Ams like 2 or 3 and maybe one Gold Crown IV. A small Bar, a nice TV for games, a few tables for card games etc. No Jukebox, no bangers, membership only. access open 24 hours a day (the bar would be on regular hours). Members pays dues maybe that would work. Sell day passes to others who want to come in. My father and I have been talking about doing this maybe in the Austin Area when we move there later this year. Dad would like to do a snooker table since there doesn't seem to be one in Austin and he loves a good golf game.

Any thoughts, ideas, input from the AZer's would be appreciated.

f
Click to expand...

I was a member of several private clubs in Germany. The league system there is such that a high number of teams have their own private facility to play and train in. They are called Vereinsheims or Club Houses.

I think that this is a fantastic idea!

One club I was in only gave out keys to certain members and otherwise the place was "open" to other members without keys during certain hours when members with keys would agree to staff it.

Members with keys had 24 hour access and I played many times there at 8am after getting off work from the Kleenex factory.

We were allowed to bring non-members and if they played then we charged table time that was either paid right away or added to the sponsoring member's monthly tab. We didn't charge a cover at the door because sometimes people just came to hang out and not play.

All the food and drink was on the honor system with the member's responsible to mark up their consumption or put money in the kitty as they consumed. Food and drink was sold at just a tiny bit above cost to cover the cost of someone going to do the buying and transporting.

That was the best one.

Another one was run like a pool room with the members volunteering to staff the place during opening hours and all the member's paid table time when they played. They ran a great weekly tournament with a year end payout based on rank that was fantastic.

I guess the only thing I would concerned about in the USA is the relevant laws regarding social clubs and alcohol sales. I suppose if it's all BYOB or some from of that then it's probably ok.

Go for it.
 
P.S. if this is intended to be a profit-making endeavor rather than a member-supported break-even type deal then I have no info on that. The clubs I was a member of were all "owned" by all the members through the legal formation of a social club. I have no real idea about the specifics of how that works though.
 
cmbwsu said:
A "for profit" business?

I have thought of just building a small pool & card room in the back corner of my lot -- not attached to the house. Members only like you said with BYOB. For "those" kinds of situations, I was thinking of using a security card system of some kind. It's a dream; but, what a dream!!!!!

Looking forward to seeing the comments you will get on this thread.
Click to expand...


I like the idea of the security card - like a hotel's magnetic room key cards that can be barred on an individual basis. I think that these setups are pretty easy to get nowadays.

Or a potentially LOW TECH variant would be an entry lock tied to a bar code reader. Then you could simply assign each person their own barcode that you can print with any printer and make your own laminated cards.

Or, as they do it here RFID chip cards that can be programmed.

That would be the biggest thing for me - trust and who gets access.
 
Well I'm thinking it would be a smaller place I would probably buy some used diamonds or gold crowns and get them set up good. I'm still trying to figure it out and it will be a few years but I'm going to try it. As for employees There's myself. Location I'm thinking wouldn't have to be really great because i'm not catering to the casual passerby. I would like to make it a "private" club so we could have poker and a private club isn't required to buy a liquor license in Texas. Keys to certain members. As far as food I'm just thinking sandwiches. Not exactly sure yet but as I've stated i'm just putting the pieces togather slowly. Of course I could always just open a pool room and not have a damn jukebox in there :D make it a player friendly environment instead of a banger friendly environment.

f

No not really for profit, a private room that's all. Enough money passed on to pay the bills I guess.
 
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I always liked this idea, but was never offered a situation to enjoy. Private in an Open society has it's benefits & it's downfalls. It's like a Country Club, which I did get to enjoy as a Golf PRO.

The 19th Hole in a Country Club is an extension of the Club's riches & only a few of the memebers even enjoy those privileges.

Diamond Club in Dallas has a sdort of Provate deal going, but it didn't last long, maybe some AZ Members can open up on the failure of that endeavor.

Good Luck in your endeavor. My Brother wants to retire to the Austin area, I know he will want to belong.
 
I looked into doing this and found that I would need about 100 members to make the monthly payment with $500 initiation fee and $40.00 a month membership fees in a club that was owned by the members. The operating cost will get you so you need your own place (no rent). You need to pay for heat and AC, equipment, and people to be there on a regular basis to keep it operating. If I belonged to a club I would want to store my cue and things and I would want to know my equipment was safe.

Other than building my own place that would be available to a select few I can't see how I can make it go. The players are here but they will not put up that kind of money becsue most of them are working guys

My current Plan B is to talk a golf club or a sportman club into having a billiards room with a few tables for members. This could work but will take some doing. From what I have learned most places do not have the room for a billiards room add on.

I would personally join a club in a heart beat if it was for serious players. From what I have learned there are many league players in my area and they are not really interested in a room for playing. They like the bar atmosphere, getting out of the house, socializing, etc.
 
Sounds like a good idea from a player's perspective, but more info is needed to determine if it is viable from a business standpoint. A better idea of what it would cost on a monthly basis to determine how many members are needed at what monthly fee. One thing is for sure, if there are only a few tables then the number of members is somewhat limited. No one is going to stay a member for long if they can never get a table.
 
JoeW said:
I looked into doing this and found that I would need about 100 members to make the monthly payment with $500 initiation fee and $40.00 a month membership fees in a club that was owned by the members. The operating cost will get you so you need your own place (no rent). You need to pay for heat and AC, equipment, and people to be there on a regular basis to keep it operating. If I belonged to a club I would want to store my cue and things and I would want to know my equipment was safe.

Other than building my own place that would be available to a select few I can't see how I can make it go. The players are here but they will not put up that kind of money becsue most of them are working guys

My current Plan B is to talk a golf club or a sportman club into having a billiards room with a few tables for members. This could work but will take some doing. From what I have learned most places do not have the room for a billiards room add on.

I would personally join a club in a heart beat if it was for serious players. From what I have learned there are many league players in my area and they are not really interested in a room for playing. They like the bar atmosphere, getting out of the house, socializing, etc.
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You need $50,000 in initiation fees? For what?

I can't believe that it's that hard - especially in this economy to find a low rent place that is suitable. The place doesn't need to be staffed, it's a clubhouse.

The biggest initial expense is going to be the tables but one club where I was a member had them financed. The financing was EASY to secure since many members co-signed the loan and the bank was happy to have a bunch of working guys paying off a relatively small loan.

As for security - well that's an issue certainly and other than trust I don't see a real good way to get around it. Lockers are a way to keep your stuff secure - they are cheaply available from second-hand office furniture places.

Other than rent and utilities what other overhead is there? Food and drink is going to be paid for on a consumption basis. You certainly don't want an "employee" there as then it would be a business. So if you want it staffed then all the members take turns on a volunteer basis. I am sure that they would recruit wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, kids and so on to fill out the staffing roster.

I rented an entire warehouse plus apartment for $1500 a month. I can't imagine that space for about four pool tables plus a couch would cost more than $500 a month in rent. And it certainly can't cost more than $500 for utilities unless something is wrong.

Would I pay $50 a month for this setup? You bet I would. 4 tables can support 8-12 people playing per hour. I have no idea what your calculations entailed but the idea is totally feasible and scalable.
 
There is/was? a private room in charlotte N.C. where most of the members had richard blacks, anybody know this room & how their membership was set up? Alot of mercedes, porsche's, bmw's etc. outside so I doubt they had any trouble paying the bills.
 
That's pretty cool. that's pretty much what I'm talking about. Now would it work in Austin?
 
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