Pro level pattern/layout challenges

[dchan320]

Has there ever been in the history of pool at the professional level where players compete by going through challenge patterns/layouts on the table?

Think this would be fun to watch as a spectator. You know how fast&loose has those upload your video if you run this pattern to win a few bucks? Something like that but for a pro event. Taking away pattern racking, who has the better break that day reason, better safety, putting packs together, etc... might make for an interesting event. It'll be a different type of pressure too on the players.

I was watching an old Buddy Hall instructional DVD where he just covered shots and positioning. Knowing what he's going to execute and then seeing it done was very cool. Much like some of the commentary on matches where the shot is described and then you see it executed.

Am I onto something here or forget about it. LOL

Doug

 

[naji]

Has there ever been in the history of pool at the professional level where players compete by going through challenge patterns/layouts on the table?

Think this would be fun to watch as a spectator. You know how fast&loose has those upload your video if you run this pattern to win a few bucks? Something like that but for a pro event. Taking away pattern racking, who has the better break that day reason, better safety, putting packs together, etc... might make for an interesting event. It'll be a different type of pressure too on the players.

I was watching an old Buddy Hall instructional DVD where he just covered shots and positioning. Knowing what he's going to execute and then seeing it done was very cool. Much like some of the commentary on matches where the shot is described and then you see it executed.

Am I onto something here or forget about it. LOL

Doug

I like the idea, the closest i have seen is shoot out on a set up hard shot in Japan open when the score is tied up. I know Spanish players play rotation with all balls on rails, never saw in competition. 14.1 and one pocket shoot out challenge in DCC. There is a small problem; however, some stream viewers do not like none continuous run, so it will be hard for streamers to consider pattern play out!

 

[Johnnyt]

I have said on here years ago that an overhead programable projector that have hundreds of patterns in them would be cool for a pool tournament. I got flamed and laughed at. It would be better than playing the ghost, which is what 9 ball has become at the pro level. MR, pattern racking, and soft break=playing the ghost. Johnnyt

 

[King T]

Has there ever been in the history of pool at the professional level where players compete by going through challenge patterns/layouts on the table?

Think this would be fun to watch as a spectator. You know how fast&loose has those upload your video if you run this pattern to win a few bucks? Something like that but for a pro event.

Am I onto something here or forget about it. LOL

Doug

This is a great idea. It would freshen up pool a bit, a new challenge. It might turn into something big, Pool is stuck right now and needs something other than the norm and a new format might do the trick.

You should send your idea to Mark Griffin, he seems t be looking for ways to elevate the game and might be open to some kind of challenge match with this format, great idea!

 

[Black-Balled]

Total Offense Pool.

Was such a hit, it never came back.

I also thought it a fine idea:shrug:

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_and_events/99-independent-tournaments/536-total-offense-pool-event/

 

[dchan320]

Maybe start with a single attempt, one chance pattern for the winner? It could be an AZB community related challenge of sorts. Prize could rollover and carry to the next tourney if no one got it.

Doug

 

[bdorman]

I think your idea would be interesting as an educational piece.

But I think it would become boring as a competition. One of the things that keeps pool interesting is that you can break the balls 10,000 times and never have the same layout twice.

 

[DAVE_M]

I have said on here years ago that an overhead programable projector that have hundreds of patterns in them would be cool for a pool tournament. I got flamed and laughed at. It would be better than playing the ghost, which is what 9 ball has become at the pro level. MR, pattern racking, and soft break=playing the ghost. Johnnyt

We should put little sand traps and embed bowls of water in the table. Maybe a fog machine to mess with the players vision. Then we could add some lasers and some music....

The Magic Rack, pattern racking, and soft breaks do not make professional pool equal to playing the ghost.

 

[pt109]

I went to a PGA tournament once...it was very interesting to watch the pros practice
and banter with each other.
But I only spent 20 minutes there.....
...if that all I was going to see, I wouldn't have went.

There lots of good pool layouts to practice....been using them for years.
I wouldn't spend much time watching people shoot them, though.

 

[dchan320]

We should put little sand traps and embed bowls of water in the table. Maybe a fog machine to mess with the players vision. Then we could add some lasers and some music....

The Magic Rack, pattern racking, and soft breaks do not make professional pool equal to playing the ghost.

Actually, I was thinking of something like a random pick and one of the pockets would be out of play for the rack. Sand traps would get a little messy.

I went to a PGA tournament once...it was very interesting to watch the pros practice
and banter with each other.
But I only spent 20 minutes there.....
...if that all I was going to see, I wouldn't have went.

There lots of good pool layouts to practice....been using them for years.
I wouldn't spend much time watching people shoot them, though.

True. A full day of challenge pattern attempts would not make for a fun filled event.

A progressive jackpot (one-try) for the winner of a tournament would probably be as far as it'll go to capture audience attention. If given enough time, that jackpot could be real big. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Watching a drill would be boring, but I'm sure we can get creative in a way that the layout 'could' resemble a tough spread after a break. I think this would be fun to watch.

 

[Treyf123]

I think your idea would be interesting as an educational piece.

But I think it would become boring as a competition. One of the things that keeps pool interesting is that you can break the balls 10,000 times and never have the same layout twice.

The only problem is with a magic rack there are some pros that can get the exact run out every time. This past year in vegas Klatt Broke and ran out the entire set of the 9 ball challenge finals, shooting the same ball into the same hole every rack was impressive and boring at the same time

 

[DAVE_M]

Actually, I was thinking of something like a random pick and one of the pockets would be out of play for the rack.

Sounds like a game show.

The only problem is with a magic rack there are some pros that can get the exact run out every time. This past year in vegas Klatt Broke and ran out the entire set of the 9 ball challenge finals, shooting the same ball into the same hole every rack was impressive and boring at the same time

So we should punish Jason, because he played well and figured out how to break better than everyone else? You agree that it was impressive, but you say it's boring. So we should sabotage Jason, so that it isn't as boring?

 

[ceebee]

Has there ever been in the history of pool at the professional level where players compete by going through challenge patterns/layouts on the table?

Think this would be fun to watch as a spectator. You know how fast&loose has those upload your video if you run this pattern to win a few bucks? Something like that but for a pro event. Taking away pattern racking, who has the better break that day reason, better safety, putting packs together, etc... might make for an interesting event. It'll be a different type of pressure too on the players.

I was watching an old Buddy Hall instructional DVD where he just covered shots and positioning. Knowing what he's going to execute and then seeing it done was very cool. Much like some of the commentary on matches where the shot is described and then you see it executed.

Am I onto something here or forget about it. LOL

Doug

Kim Davenport came up with a game called Target Pool.... great way to practice or great competition type game.

I saw Buddy Hall, CJ Wylie & a couple of other players go at it.

 

[Treyf123]

Sounds like a game show.



So we should punish Jason, because he played well and figured out how to break better than everyone else? You agree that it was impressive, but you say it's boring. So we should sabotage Jason, so that it isn't as boring?

Not at all. good for him i was just pointing out that now the layout can be controlled. The person i quoted said you could break and have a different layout 10,000 times but in todays game i think that is wrong for anybody that plays at the shortstop or pro level

 

[DAVE_M]

Not at all. good for him i was just pointing out that now the layout can be controlled. The person i quoted said you could break and have a different layout 10,000 times but in todays game i think that is wrong for anybody that plays at the shortstop or pro level

The problem, that I see with this, is that you can watch the USBTC matches on YouTube. Corey figured out how to break and have the pattern his way, did he go all the way and win it? No. Shane broke the same speed every rack and had a good layout that he could work with. Is that cheating? No, Shane figured out the table conditions and worked with it. If one person out of fifty can excel at something, you don't punish them for it. Eliminating human error out of racking will only result in people complaining that it makes the game too easy. With the variable of human error, people will complain that he/she got lucky rolls.

No matter what happens in pool's future, people will still have something negative to say.

 

[Treyf123]

The problem, that I see with this, is that you can watch the USBTC matches on YouTube. Corey figured out how to break and have the pattern his way, did he go all the way and win it? No. Shane broke the same speed every rack and had a good layout that he could work with. Is that cheating? No, Shane figured out the table conditions and worked with it. If one person out of fifty can excel at something, you don't punish them for it. Eliminating human error out of racking will only result in people complaining that it makes the game too easy. With the variable of human error, people will complain that he/she got lucky rolls.

No matter what happens in pool's future, people will still have something negative to say.

Im not saying take it away or make them break hard i was just simply pointing out a fact. I dont mind it. I like the big packages. Who is saying punish them? Breaking is part of the game, whoever breaks the best has an advantage and he should. Because, most likely he has put in the time to break better than his opponent.

 

[bdorman]

The only problem is with a magic rack there are some pros that can get the exact run out every time. This past year in vegas Klatt Broke and ran out the entire set of the 9 ball challenge finals, shooting the same ball into the same hole every rack was impressive and boring at the same time

I agree. I watched Dennis Orcullo run rack after rack of barbox nine-ball, magic rack, pattern racking allowed. It became boring very quickly. Nearly the same table layout every rack.

Someone on AZ recently wrote "9-ball on a barbox with the Magic Rack isn't a game; it's a drill." So true.

I guess I should have written "One of the things that keeps pool interesting -- if you don't use a Magic Rack -- is that you can break the balls 10,000 times and never have the same layout twice."

Personally as fan, I say get rid of the Magic Rack and learn how to rack a frozen rack of balls. It's a skill just like breaking. If the cloth won't allow a frozen rack, so what? It's not like it allows it for the opponent. Both players are in the same boat: figure out how to rack and break on THIS table.

 

[playdoubles]

Interesting for a Challenge match!?!

Has there ever been in the history of pool at the professional level where players compete by going through challenge patterns/layouts on the table?

Think this would be fun to watch as a spectator. You know how fast&loose has those upload your video if you run this pattern to win a few bucks? Something like that but for a pro event. Taking away pattern racking, who has the better break that day reason, better safety, putting packs together, etc... might make for an interesting event. It'll be a different type of pressure too on the players.

I was watching an old Buddy Hall instructional DVD where he just covered shots and positioning. Knowing what he's going to execute and then seeing it done was very cool. Much like some of the commentary on matches where the shot is described and then you see it executed.

Am I onto something here or forget about it. LOL

Doug

Could be very interesting!

Cause I do have seen some strange matches:

One of the strangest matches, that I have on DVD, is between Efren and Niels – 9-Ball alternating break.
Niels broke like a monster – good old whitey almost every time perfectly in the middle of the table –
but almost never a shot on the lowest ball on the table (had to play push out or come up with a very very difficult pot AND position)!
Efren – with whitey on different spots after each break – almost had a stop shot each and every time on the first THREE balls!
That's something you can't predict…

Do you mean stuff like that?









I do have runouts like these with up to 15 balls!
The German Bundestrainer told me once, that a very well respected German 1. League Player (who also has been to the World Championships a few times) has played an extremely difficult 15-Ball runout for more than 16 hours to complete the run!
I gave this runout to my mentor (former European Seniors Champion) – and he did it after 40 Minutes (but he also needed many attempts}!

It doesn't have to be that hard, but I like your idea of 9/10-Ball runout in a competition – and to watch, how the players solve the problems…

 

[JohnnyP]

Instead of a perfect rack, why not give everyone a slug rack, so the balls don't spread that well.

To test it with a Magic Rack, just enlarge the hole where the one ball goes, then push the one ball away from the two balls behind it.

 

[dchan320]

Could be very interesting!

...It doesn't have to be that hard, but I like your idea of 9/10-Ball runout in a competition – and to watch, how the players solve the problems…

Thanks for sharing a few patterns.

How about if we incorporate shot types that are highly avoided in match play, but make it a requirement in this challenge rack? For example... As part of the run-out, a carom shot (any) and a bank shot that crosses center line is required. 10b must be the last ball on the table as well before it's pocketed, so no early win. We don't have to have drill-like layouts only to see flawless fundamentals, but knowing a carom and bank is needed will changes it up quite a bit.

All this is in the spirit of fun and entertainment, so let the game show begin.