Pro Players and Drugs
- Thread starter Mr441
- Start date
drivermaker
Banned
BillardBill said:
What illegal drug are you talking about? Crack...smack...coke...weed...angel dust... opium? They don't help performance anyway.
All of the ones that do enhance performance are legal drugs. The only thing that puts a black mark on them is normally how they're obtained. If a Dr. writes a "scrip" then it's legal (and most often can be gotten that way). If you purchase outside of the pharmacy and the Doc didn't write it up, it's illegal, although it can still be made by a bona fide drug manufacturer. (but not always and then you can have quality control and health issues).
Pool players take drugs...football players take drugs...baseball players take drugs...basketball players take drugs...track and field athletes take drugs.
Surely not all of them, but if anyone is so naive to think that pool players don't-won't-and shouldn't are living in la-la land, especially if something gives you an edge and it's the difference between winning a couple of grand or losing it.
Is it wrong? Is it a stain on the profession? Is it being swept under the carpet with heads turning sideways? Whatever...it's just a fact of life.
And unless the governing body of pool (which doesn't exist) comes out with a list of banned drugs such as swimming and track with ongoing testing, it will continue. And even then, the participants manage to do things and get new drugs that don't show up on the radar. The pressure to excel and succeed in ANY sport is enormous, but especially in sports where there are no contracts, salaries, and major perks and you're sometimes fighting to earn a buck so that your car isn't repossessed and you can just fill your belly.
Where's Willeebetmore on this subject...seriously...I'd love to have his insights.
GeraldG said:
Actually, I haven't really advanced any argument one way or the other...I've just asked questions about what is a drug and why one is OK and another is not, and who should decide.
As to your support of legal drugs and distain for illegal drugs, I'd say you've given up your reasoning to a "higher" power, the law. And that is more harmful than any drug yet invented.
Jeff Livingston
There are a number of top players who relax with weed sometimes and I don't think it's a problem at all. The ones I've seen play fine afterwards but I've noticed that a lot of average players fall to pieces afterwards. Weed is not a big deal at all to people who are used to it and understand its effects.
I live in an area that has a lot of meth running around (Northern Cal) and everyone around here knows a least one person who ruined their life with speed. Most of the problems with weed are either legal issues or people who have a lazy nature become slobs or apathetic towards life.
I don't think there's is a steroid equivalent for pool (buffed up Johnny Archer running 20 racks instead of 11?) where you have a definate advantage in a tournement situation.
Random drug testing is the stupidest thing I have ever heard suggested for improving pool, without a doubt. Anyone who doesn't think it's aggravating trying not to piss yourself until the nurse allows you to come in and "donate" some urine clearly hasn't had to do it very often. Half the tour would tell you to get f***ed, even if they weren't using anything.
I heard Michael Jordan used to drink one Michelob before each game. I've never seen a good player get better when drinking alcohol; after three beers almost everyone gets a little slower unless their adrenaline is working overload.
I live in an area that has a lot of meth running around (Northern Cal) and everyone around here knows a least one person who ruined their life with speed. Most of the problems with weed are either legal issues or people who have a lazy nature become slobs or apathetic towards life.
I don't think there's is a steroid equivalent for pool (buffed up Johnny Archer running 20 racks instead of 11?) where you have a definate advantage in a tournement situation.
Random drug testing is the stupidest thing I have ever heard suggested for improving pool, without a doubt. Anyone who doesn't think it's aggravating trying not to piss yourself until the nurse allows you to come in and "donate" some urine clearly hasn't had to do it very often. Half the tour would tell you to get f***ed, even if they weren't using anything.
I heard Michael Jordan used to drink one Michelob before each game. I've never seen a good player get better when drinking alcohol; after three beers almost everyone gets a little slower unless their adrenaline is working overload.
drivermaker said:
and since the men won't even sign a contract.........good luck givin em drug tests.........
vap
drivermaker said:
Your post is loaded with misconceptions about pot use and unfair and mean-spirited to pot smokers. I've seen many pot smokers IMPROVE their performances with pot use. The Brits have done two studies on pot smoking and driving...guess what? Pot smokers make SAFER drivers! Let's do that study over here to confirm it... wait...can't do...the DEA won't allow studies for the truth as they might interfere with their violence against citizens, and thus, their paychecks. Better to keep the illusion and our heads in the ground.
Again, the War On (some) Drugs has distorted the truth so much that this discussion has yet to even define a "drug," much less come to a conclusion on usage and control.
Still waiting after 40 years of this crap...
Jeff Livingston
drivermaker
Banned
bud green said:
I agree with you about the drug testing, and I wasn't promoting it in my post nor do I believe that it should be done. It's what the other sports are doing to curb it, but I can't even go along with some of it. They have truly gone overboard.
An example would be all of the cold remedy products, cough medicines, inhalants, etc. that they have banned in swimming and track. I mean what the hell...what if someone who has been training their whole life, and especially for 3 prior months, comes down with a vicious cold right before a big competition. What are they supposed to do...compete with snot rolling down over their chin and unable to breathe or have lungers that can be spit further than a javelin throw? That is unfair to the competitor to have to fight against those disturbances and weakness. And what happens IF they just should win and took something that allowed them to breathe for the event? They're DISQUALIFIED...that's bullshit!
I have a hard time believing that Jordan would swill a beer BEFORE a game. I could see 3-4 afterwards, but it makes no sense with a man of his talent and experience.
drivermaker
Banned
chefjeff said:
I don't think so at all Jeff...especially since throughout my wild and wooly 20's I probably smoked enough grass and hash that it probably was enough to fill a B-52 hangar. I was also popping those black beauties just like OHB and playing those all nighters. That's why I take vitamins today...(always rationalizing)
Last edited:
Here's a couple of interesting articles about this issue that popped up in my email this morning...
The COX-2 fiasco ... It didn't have to be
Free Market News Network
by Steve Trinward
"In a recent column, I discussed some of the ways in which the Drug
Enforcement Administration blocks proper medical care for disabled
chronic pain sufferers, by hamstringing their medication schedule and
keeping their physicians in the virtual handcuffs of 'prior
restraint'. ... The ambiguity of DEA directives prevents many doctors
from issuing multiple, post-dated prescriptions for several months at
a time, and instead requires a pain-suffering patient to make and
keep monthly appointments, just to satisfy the drug thugs! But I left
out one of the most ridiculous ways the DEA, and the government's
overall attitudes about pain medication, hampers proper care in these
instances: their refusal to allow relief with naturally growing
substances, and their over-reliance on far more dangerous synthetic
drugs conjured up in pharmaceutical laboratories." (03/22/05)
http://www.freemarketnews.com/pview/5851/1188/html/index.php
comments: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/rationalreview/1111558140/
Hearings expose inept Congress & MLB
Frontiers of Freedom
by Diane M. Grassi
"The House of Representatives and its House Government Reform
Committee held hearings on March 17, 2005 supposedly to bring light
to the subject on the prevention of steroid use in Major League
Baseball. It was far from a lesson in ways to further prevent abusing
anabolic steroids and growth hormones in an effort to eventually
discourage minors from using such illicit drugs. Instead we got a
bird?s eye view into how our lawmakers as well as the institution of
Major League Baseball continue to grandstand and illustrate their
obvious disconnect they both share with the American people."
(03/22/05)
http://tinyurl.com/6dxyj
comments: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/rationalreview/1111534429/
Jeff Livingston
The COX-2 fiasco ... It didn't have to be
Free Market News Network
by Steve Trinward
"In a recent column, I discussed some of the ways in which the Drug
Enforcement Administration blocks proper medical care for disabled
chronic pain sufferers, by hamstringing their medication schedule and
keeping their physicians in the virtual handcuffs of 'prior
restraint'. ... The ambiguity of DEA directives prevents many doctors
from issuing multiple, post-dated prescriptions for several months at
a time, and instead requires a pain-suffering patient to make and
keep monthly appointments, just to satisfy the drug thugs! But I left
out one of the most ridiculous ways the DEA, and the government's
overall attitudes about pain medication, hampers proper care in these
instances: their refusal to allow relief with naturally growing
substances, and their over-reliance on far more dangerous synthetic
drugs conjured up in pharmaceutical laboratories." (03/22/05)
http://www.freemarketnews.com/pview/5851/1188/html/index.php
comments: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/rationalreview/1111558140/
Hearings expose inept Congress & MLB
Frontiers of Freedom
by Diane M. Grassi
"The House of Representatives and its House Government Reform
Committee held hearings on March 17, 2005 supposedly to bring light
to the subject on the prevention of steroid use in Major League
Baseball. It was far from a lesson in ways to further prevent abusing
anabolic steroids and growth hormones in an effort to eventually
discourage minors from using such illicit drugs. Instead we got a
bird?s eye view into how our lawmakers as well as the institution of
Major League Baseball continue to grandstand and illustrate their
obvious disconnect they both share with the American people."
(03/22/05)
http://tinyurl.com/6dxyj
comments: http://www.haloscan.com/comments/rationalreview/1111534429/
Jeff Livingston
or1pkt said:
See, that's my problem with all this. Jennifer is a friend. Although you may think of her as some super-celebrity, I know she certainly doesn't see herself that way and I know for a fact that there isn't this incredible compensation she receives for getting ragged like that. I'm absolutely certain that if you said it to her, SHE would not find it funny.
Your comment about Karen Corr is outright derogatory to all women who play this sport. Yes, this thread has gotten way out there but you took it one step further by talking about two women who a. have nothing to do with drugs and b. have done nothing but be as cooperative and friendly with the general public. Yet, this is how you see they should be repaid.
Your "joke" was in poor taste, lacked wit and was completely unfunny. It shows how removed you are from the general pool community and your lack of understanding for sensitive social issues pertaining to women. There are people who also find racial humor funny. That doesn't make it appropriate.
drivermaker
Banned
chefjeff said:Ah...nothing like a reformed smoker...
Jeff Livingston
More like a burnt out one....
Jude Rosenstock said:
Jude, I too found the post uncalled for. Humor shouldn't be offensive. This person obviously doesn't know either of these ladies very well. If he did, he would know that neither of them would have thought his post was very funny. Also, if he knew either of these two ladies he'd have nothing but nice things to say about them.
Blackjack said:
I also found these "jokes" to be in poor taste, unfair, uncalled for, and offensive and did not find them in the least funny. I also find it odd that the person who made these jokes can't see the problem with it (especially after it was clearly pointed out), and simply make an apology for it without a defense attached. Anyone with a modicum of respect for other people would see how these remarks would be offensive to the subjects of the remarks and would not find them "humorous". This is not a matter of political correctness, it is a simple matter of disrespect toward two individuals. If it were directed at a group, class, or race of people then political correctness may come into play. This was simply a lack of respect for the individuals.
Jude, Blackjack and Gerald . . . . well said.
Unfortunately, some people will just never get it. What I always find interesting is those people who think "it's all funny" to insult others (including some posters who are defending this person), until someone insults a person or something that is near and dear to them. Then it's a different story - and no longer funny to them.
And, they seem to be especially blind to the fact that an unprovoked personal attack is wrong. Just don't attack anything they think is important.
Unfortunately, some people will just never get it. What I always find interesting is those people who think "it's all funny" to insult others (including some posters who are defending this person), until someone insults a person or something that is near and dear to them. Then it's a different story - and no longer funny to them.
And, they seem to be especially blind to the fact that an unprovoked personal attack is wrong. Just don't attack anything they think is important.
chefjeff said:
There may be some good come of it ... I believe that a lot of stock car racing was a remnant of a previous war on drugs, the Prohibition.
I too think it curious how people view 'drugs'. The history is interesting, and it's not that long with the pharmaceutical business being a very recent addition to our society. Of course people have known about peyote, poppies, mescal, coca, etc. for a very long time. Not likely that anyone here would have tried 'the real thing', but perhaps some remember 'the pause that refreshes’? How times change...
Interesting thread ... sensitive humour notwithstanding.
Dave, who had two beer during my match last night and got beat by my opponent who had three
drivermaker
Banned
or1pkt said:
Why don't you just go back and delete your post...that should appease everyone that's torqued off. Can't get pissed at something that's not there.
or1pkt said:
This goes back to my initial comment about how you should talk about what you know and consider taking some testosterone pills you annonymous twit.
My regards,
Jude M. Rosenstock
or1pkt said:
Wait a damned minute here. The fact that Jude stood up for his friend because someone was making rude remarks about her in a public forum makes him nuts and a groupie? What the hell kind of logic is that? Do you think you should be allowed to come into here and just say anything you want about anyone you want and not expect someone to challenge you? What are you, like 13 years old? If this is the best you can do, then I for one would prefer not to see any more posting from you. Your brand of "humor" is neither wanted nor appreciated.